Driver's Licence Suspension and DVLA Petition

[bev]

In some circumstances hypo awareness can return- of course not in all cases
I realise that running levels higher to avoid hypos is not always successful but have come across plenty of people whose awareness improves when steps are taken to reduce the frequency of hypos.
ALso type of insulin and other factors such as stress, other medications such as beta blockers and pregnancy can affect hypo unawareness
Very frustrating for those who have tried everything and still can;t restore awareness though

Hi Abi,

Obviously Alex being a boy we wouldnt know about pregnancy - he he! It is good to know that for some adults it does work - it doesnt seem to in children at all.🙂Bev

 

[Abi]

Hope that situation improves for Alex if the hypo unawareness is currently a problem

 

[martynlloydkelly]

Hi everyone,

First of all thanks for the continued interest from everyone, I haven't been online today very much as I've been running around a lot (life without a car is tough!). Big news is that I was invited to do an interview by Andrew Bonner for Granada Reports (Northwest ITV news program). The interview focused upon my situation and the petition to some extent (personal stories make better TV) but tried to get all important messages across and mention the petition. It will be shown at 18:00 on Monday, 22/04/2013 so I hope those who can see it will tune in and have a blimp at me trying to explain why the EU is backwards!

Diabetes UK's "Advocay" group is also backing me 100% with the petition and my application as is my consultant and nurse specialist, all good news on that front!

Petition was retweeted today by JDRF UK today (a type 1 diabetes charity) and Kevin Simm (singer in Liberty X, he's the borther of a friend of mine). Various media types have also been following me and chatting on Twitter, I'm also setting up a meeting with my MP soon. All is going well!

Just updated the petition news too if anybody wants to watch?

signed, and good luck

Good luck Martyn. I'm waiting on the DVLA's decision after re-applying following revocation of my licence, so I'm following your situation with interest.

Thank you both very much, your support is much appreciated and I hope that the decision comes back positive for you. Doesn't half affect you in ways you never imagined, its horrible to think that this is happening to other people.

Sorry to hear about your current situation - I have also signed the petition (my name is Dina). In terms of outreach / advocacy you could also try Phillip Schofield - his mum and brother are both Type 1s.

Good luck and please do keep us posted - the current legislation is completely ridiculous!

Many thanks for the suggestion, I've already attempted to tweet the Schofe but he must get hundreds of tweets per hour so mine's probably gotten buried somewhere! Thank you as well for the good wishes 🙂

Petition signed and shared. I've been 'threatened' a few times by my consultant considering to inform the DVLA of numerous daytime hypos but thankfully always managed to pull things back. The fact that your hypos happened at night while you were asleep is a huge difference to us but unfortunately not to the DVLA. Best of luck!

Thank you, fantastic that you've managed to regain control and not have suffered the dreaded blanket suspension. That's what I'm trying to combat, the ignorance of the directive.

Possibly a mad idea but have you tweeted Jeremy Clarkson? I imagine the farcical nature of penalising someone over what happened in their sleep might apeal & he'd 'get' the impact of not being allowed to drive...?

Good idea! I'll have a pop in a moment!

Where your hypos in the night severe?

Severe in the sense that I required assistance and ended up fitting but I've had fits where I've woken up "ridden them out" and then gotten up afterwards to eat and recover. So what is "severe" exactly? By the DVLA's definition if I was, say, working on a car and was hypo and asked a mate to get me a Lucozade then that's "severe" as a third party has been involved in the treatment of the hypo.

sounds a good idea twitchy, am going to send it to a few people myself

Thank you so much, we need more people sending and putting this around, that should see the petition signatures reach critical mass and then grow exponentially (with a bit of luck)!

While in some cases those with severe night hypos are hypo unaware during the day and susceptible to severe daytime episodes- in many cases patients who have occasional severe nocturnal hypos do not have problematic daytime hypos
I've signed it as I believe that there should not be a blanket ban after a couple of nocturnal episodes- individual circumstances such as whether there is daytime hypo awareness should be assessed
I also don't like the length of bans due to hypoglycaemic episodes as in many cases the problem could be resolved and hypo awareness restored within a few weeks

All true and all things that should be considered in the EU directives, every last point.

Hope that situation improves for Alex if the hypo unawareness is currently a problem

Same here, thats horrible, I'd hate to not be hypo aware

Love to all, thank you for your continued support. Please keep sharing and raising awareness, we're starting to make a real impact!

Best,

- Martyn

 

[martynlloydkelly]

Petition update video has had problems due to youTube restrictions on time.

All sorted now, uploading as we speak, apologies!

- Martyn

 

[bev]

Hi Martyn,


Thanks for the update - looks like you are attracting a lot of support - well done.

Alex does have hypo-awareness - very good in fact.🙂 I am just wondering how you are planning to cope with any future (touch wood you wont) severe hypo's? What do you normally do when you have had a lot of exercise?🙂Bev

p.s. We always support JDRF - they are the future.

 

[martynlloydkelly]

Thanks for the update - looks like you are attracting a lot of support - well done.

Thank you! Petition was just retweeted by Michelle Heaton from Liberty X, more exposure!

- Martyn

 

[martynlloydkelly]

Hi everyone,

Latest video update is now live in the "News" section of the petition, if you have the time please check it out 🙂

Best,

- Martyn

 

[martynlloydkelly]

Hi everyone,

I have just written to George Howarth MP asking if he wouold consider meeting with me to dicuss where this petition should be heading to make the biggest impact and to raise awareness for it in the public-eye. I'll keep you all updated with regards to this.

I'm also asking for all those who have had their licences suspended by the DVLA due to the "2 hypo tick box" to consider telling me about their experience. This will help to provide evidence for the unnecessary detrimental effect the EU directive and the DVLA's enforcement of it has upon people's lives. These testimonials can obviously done by private channels if necessary but as a consequence of thinking about this I am looking to create a centralised web-site (I'm a web programmer so I suppose I should earn my keep) where I can organise everything and spread awareness. It doesn't help that the URL for the petition is so long, I don't think there is a way to change this either. The site itself would allow others to submit their experiences and stories, comment upon the issue and provide an easy to remember URL that the petition can be accessed from.

I would love to hear any feedback on this idea and if anyone knows of any graphic designers who would be willing to design a neat layout then I would be most appreciative. If anyone is also well versed in coding (I'm thinking of using CakePHP as I use this in my job and its excellent for database integration, which will be required) then please get in touch as I will be using Git and GitHub to develop the site so we can all contribute. Furthermore, if anyone knows of any cheap hosting available for sites with integrated MySQL administration tools then details of these would be fantastic.

Thank you all once again for your support, please keep sharing the petition! https://www.change.org/en-GB/petiti...sion-of-drivers-licences-for-type-1-diabetics

Best,

- Martyn

 

[HelenM]

You ask whether it would considered severe if your mate passed you a drink.
This is from the DVLA medical panel minutes (Oct 2011)


http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/medical/...aladvisory_meetings/minutes/2011 Minutes.aspx

The Panel emphasised that severe hypoglycaemia is defined in the EU Annex as: “the assistance of another person is needed”. This means that if help was proffered (for example by a relative or associate) but had not actually been essential to treat an episode of hypoglycaemia, it would not be classified as “severe”.

They also said

The Panel accepted that the new annex does not distinguish between episodes of severe hypoglycaemia occurring either when awake or asleep and noted the media interest in this issue.

This was followed up and in the following meeting noted

4.1(i) Clarification received from the EU has confirmed DVLA’s interpretation of the new EU Annex that no distinction can be made between episodes of severe hypoglycaemia either when awake or asleep.

I live in France which colours my views. I swapped my UK licence for a French one but didn't actually have to (except my UK one was no longer valid when I became diabetic). I can drive anywhere in Europe with it, as can people with a UK licence. If we can drive anywhere then then the regulations should be the same.

There was previously no consistency across Europe. There were certainly some countries which had very 'lax' legislation, others tighter than the rules are now. The UK was very strict in not allowing people to drive group 2 vehicles and somewhere in between for car drivers (some countries only allowed one severe hypo followed by a 2 year ban) but the definition of severe hypo varied.
However even with the new regulations there are certainly inconsistencies between the application of the directive between the UK and France (and I suspect elsewhere)
I know that the new laws are considered very unfair in France but for different reasons to the UK :the way the law is applied here discriminates against young T1s whilst those of us that are older aren't (yet) affected.
Someone who is on insulin before applying for a new licence has to face what I think are more stringent procedures than in the UK. The regulations on severe hypos are the same but you have to convince an independent medical examiner that you haven't had them, that you are fully hypo aware and fit to drive. The medic is appointed by the local prefecture and may know little about diabetes. Rumour has it that some are most likely to turn you down or give a very limited licence. This must be very scary for a teenager applying for a first licence. This examination occurs at each renewal (licence given for up to 5 years but may actually be much less)

But there is a huge loophole. A person who has passed their test before they go onto insulin doesn't have to go through this because there is no obligation to declare your diabetes except when you reapply for a licence No-one has to get a new licence except if they lose it for a traffic offence. This will change but very slowly; new licences from 2013 are for 15 years not life.(though I note the French associations page on driving is currently being redone, I suppose that could be another change in the law on the way)

Personally, I think that it is doubtful if a petition will change things at national level. The UK actually had a big input to the working party which provided the background info to the EU ,2 members and the consultant. The external consultant was Prof Brian Frier who happens to be one of the major 'authorities' on hypoglycaemia
http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Diabetes...e-Award/Banting-Memorial-Lecture-Brian-Frier/

I think that you have to think about getting things changed at the EU level. This would involve getting other diabetic associations involved (I'm sure I remember DUK saying something about discussing what was happening elsewhere in Europe), contacting Euro MPS.
It might be worth contacting Prof Frier and asking his opinion on nocturnal hypos. I've searched the report and can't find that they considered them
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/pdf/behavior/diabetes_and_driving_in_europe_final_1_en.pdf

 

[martynlloydkelly]

You ask whether it would considered severe if your mate passed you a drink.

Thank you for the information regarding this, I realised after posting that example that I was wrong in what I had said as the DIAB1 form states "Do not count episodes where you could have treated yourself", or something to that effect, I'm just recalling from memory there.

There was previously no consistency across Europe. There were certainly some countries which had very 'lax' legislation, others tighter than the rules are now. The UK was very strict in not allowing people to drive group 2 vehicles and somewhere in between for car drivers (some countries only allowed one severe hypo followed by a 2 year ban) but the definition of severe hypo varied.
However even with the new regulations there are certainly inconsistencies between the application of the directive between the UK and France (and I suspect elsewhere)

That all comes down to the fact that its a "directive" rather than a "law", its up to each member state to interpret the directive in their own way but they have to meet some sort of minimum requirement. Its still a devil of bureaucracy though, why there just isn't one clear requirement that all can adhere to though is beyond me. Too much work perhaps or maybe a matter of politics, who can tell, it is politics we're discussing here.

Personally, I think that it is doubtful if a petition will change things at national level. The UK actually had a big input to the working party which provided the background info to the EU ,2 members and the consultant. The external consultant was Prof Brian Frier who happens to be one of the major 'authorities' on hypoglycaemia

There are a number of MP's including the PM who do not believe that the directive is correct. The idea here of the petition is to show that there is enough of a public outcry to warrant taking these beliefs further. Why Prof. Brian Frier has said that there is no difference beyond conscious and unconscious is beyond me as this is clearly not the case, the fact that you've not found any evidence is not surprising. I'm thinking about approaching various medical lectures at the University as well as my consultant and his contacts to press the issue that there is medical evidence proving the distinction between conscious and unconscious hypos.

I knew this all along but its becoming more and more apparent now that this is a matter of politics vs. science. No matter what, the science should always triumph as in the majority of cases, science outlines universal truths whereas transient political agendas only outlines the falsities of the politicians that back them.

Thank you so very, very much for the information though it is both enlightening and extremely helpful. Its also identified some avenues of attack which if exploited, may help to win the day.

Best,

- Martyn

 

[Lauren]

Hi, I have signed. I think people's complete lack of a basic understanding of Diabetes, especially of those who are in a position to enforce this kind of control over us, is ridiculous. I hope everything is sorted out for you soon.

 

[HOBIE]

Well done for doing this Martyn, sorry your in this situation. Good luck Did done petition 😉

 

[martynlloydkelly]

Many thanks to you both for signing, don't forget to share too!

I think people's complete lack of a basic understanding of Diabetes, especially of those who are in a position to enforce this kind of control over us, is ridiculous.

Essentially yes, that's what appears to have bred this directive. Can't understand it, especially given the information I was provided with earlier. Absolutely illogical.

Thank you both for your condolences and well wishes too. Much appreciated!

Best,

- Martyn

 

[martynlloydkelly]

Hello everyone,

Apologies for being a bit off the radar yesterday, I've been busy putting my web design skills to good use!

I've now created a centralised web site where I can contact people in a much quicker way, the site isn't online yet as I'm waiting for my hosting request to be validated then I need to get the site online etc. That shouldn't take too long after the hosting account activation however.

Will keep you all posted!

Best,

- Martyn

 

[ypauly]

Signed and shared. Good luck.

 

[martynlloydkelly]

Signed and shared. Good luck.

Many thanks, the support is very much appreciated!

Best,

- Martyn

 

[rossi_mac]

Just about to sign, DVLA and this stuff really winds me up, if I ever get my licence revoked I will be up a certain creek with no paddle! Thank you for having the energy to do more about it than you need to.

Cheers

Rossi

 

[martynlloydkelly]

Hello 🙂

Quick video update on the petition, explains what I've been up to, what I have planned and some musings upon how the suspension has affected my life thus far.

PETITION: http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...sion-of-drivers-licences-for-type-1-diabetics

VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcr7AZVSiKA

Just about to sign, DVLA and this stuff really winds me up, if I ever get my licence revoked I will be up a certain creek with no paddle! Thank you for having the energy to do more about it than you need to.

Thanks, Rossi. Its people like yourself that are motivating me to do this. I won't stand by and watch clueless agencies enforce legislation that is uninformed and contradictory to all known understanding of the condition. Not when it has such an effect on people's lives. Sure its only a driver's licence but if you've planned your life around the ability to drive then its a crushing blow to be dealt, especially when you've had no time to prepare. Hopefully all this will give people a paddle, one that should have been there in the first place.

Thank you all and keep sharing!

- Martyn

 

[martynlloydkelly]

Hello everybody!

Well, I've been busy 🙂 Lots more signatures on the petition and hopefully more now with the unveiling of the official website! www.diabetesdvla.co.uk

I'm intending to keep this page as updated as possible, please signup to stay informed with developments and follow the official Twitter if you can!

The report on Granada was postponed unfortunately as they're still looking for a medical expert to comment upon the situation.

Hope you are all well and thank you all again for signing and sharing, lets keep it up, hopefully things will be more organised and communication will be easier with the addition of the site!

Best,

- Martyn

 

[Hanmillmum]

Hi Martyn, I signed a few days ago as I would hate my daughter to face all this rubbish when she enters adulthood. I admire your hard work and effort you are putting into resolving this injustice, keep at it 🙂