Care proceedings

[sofaraway]

Even though you don't feel like you need counselling or to be under the mental health team what you are going through does sound like a lot for a teenager to cope with and must be very frustrating. I have used adult mental health services and found some parts of them very good. So it might be worth seeing what they could offer you, then you can decide if anything might be helpful.

Is there another clinic locally that you could get referred to? Rather than waiting until you can go to the adult clinic. Are they even allowed to say you can't go back?

I hope that you and you mum manage to work something out.

 

[Ellowyne]

Hi, thanks for your support. My daughter has actually asked to reply to you so here goes;

"Whilst some people DO find CAHMS helpful, it IS down to personal preferences, and I have been offered it, but turned it down, as I don't see it would be of any help. I have several people I can talk to, family members and family friends, including my mum, who unlike some of my friends and their parents, I find very easy to talk to, and I don't see that talking to a complete stranger would be of any use to me, apart from wasting my time, and also energy. And besides, talking isn't what I need, its peace and understanding, as all this excess stress and pressure is NOT helping my M.E at all. It's not that I'm refusing to do my injections, just some times I CAN'T. When I am able to, I do do them, and I frequently test my blood sugars throughout the day, as my mum can set it up for me and all I have to do is prick my finger. But on my bad days, which are more often than good, I don't have the energy to sit up and do my insulin. And from past experience, if my mum administered it for me, lying down, it would hurt. A lot. And I'm not prepared to do that, and my mum understands that. However the Doctor doesn't seem to. Obviously not a diabetic. Injecting is a very personal thing, and I'm not comfortable with ANYONE doing my injections. Thats not to say I don't trust my mum, because I do, and I get on very well with her. It's just a personal choice. On the occasions when I've been so tired and out of it, my mum HAS done my injection for me, because I'm not even aware of it, and she has my permission to do that, but if she did so without my permission, it would be assault. And then she'd be being ridiculed by god knows who for doing so. I find it very unfair, and unjust, that all the blame is being put on my mum, when at the age of 15, it's my responsibility, and she can't pin me down and force me to do my injection, so what is she supposed to do? I swear to god these 'professionals' have had their brains removed."

Gosh, I did say she has a mind of her own lol! I'm trying to obtain legal advice, which in itself isn't easy when the ?s are in short supply, but I shall keep trying! MW

Yes, you are right, it is all down to personal preference. I was merely offering a suggestion and sharing MY experience with CAHMS to you, that's all.

May I say though that, my son ALSO has a loving and supportive family around him. Just because a person may need some other intervention, as in counselling, does not mean that there is not other significant & loving people in their lives that they can turn to or feel safe to speak to.

Counselling, for SOME people offer a diffrent perspective that CAN be helpful.

Of course you Mum is not at fault and should not be blamed for any of this very difficult situation that you are both having to cope with. Blame is a useless and negative tool and it is wrong for thses people to do this.

Anyway, I hope things improve for you both.

All the best, Ellowyne.

 

[MelanieW]

Welcome to the forums.

Having adopted a youngster I understand how you feel about social services and ther high handed way. It is difficult to fight them, although may be possible to work with them after a fashion. As your daughter is under 18, but too old to be considered a child she will probably come under the wing of the young peoples team, and get her own socail worker.

Perhaps an alternative might be for them to send someon into your home to monitor how things are going and to help with practical day to day things. It is very invasive, but it might be a way forward for you and your family.

Do you have any other adult support? Is your family (parents, brothers/sisters etc) around who may be able to help out? Is there a counselor at school, or another independent person, who could may be talk to your daughter so that she can have her say without anyone else listening in. She will have her own thoughts, and some teenagers find it difficult to talk to their parents.

Hopefully parents of diabetic children and teenagers will have some ideas you may like to try. There are many different strategies for coping.

If you want to PM me either under caroline wilson (screen name for home) or caroline (screen name for work) I'll try to support you, and offer any ideas if I can. It is a tough time for you and her.

You have made a brilliant start in getting help by comming here, and hopefully we will go in your favour.

Hi, sorry I'm only just replying - am sure you can understand with everything I got on my plate, (and my daughter's health probs are just PART of the 'overload'!), I don't actually get a lot of time to 'chat'. Anyway, thanks for your support, I really appreciate it.
MW

 

[MelanieW]

HI Melanie and daughter,

I completely understand how frustrating this must make you feel, the last thing you want/need is to have social services adding to your stress - it must make you both feel desperate.

What would *you* think is a good way forward so that both you and your mum feel that your in control of this situation? Obviously you realise the implications of having a high hba1c and what all that entails - so do you think there is a way round all this?

It seems to me that neither of you are being *heard* and this is what is frustrating for you both. Have you thought about writing a letter to your GP telling him/her exactly what you have just posted on here? I think they are forgetting that you are individuals with the same goal in mind and only want the best for you both. The message you have just posted on here explains things very well and i think any GP would understand that you are doing your best under the circumstances.

On another point, have you thought about an insulin pump? You would only need to change it every 3 days which might help with the privacy part of this and also you can get better control on a pump. My son (11) has been on one for 5 months and his hba1c has come down already. You get a lot more freedom on the pump and can adjust things in tiny amounts to suit your body/circumstances.

I am not sure what else to suggest as it seems you are both trying really hard to tell people that its not deliberate mismanagement of diabetes - its simply the circumstances you both find yourselves in.

I hope things dont get too serious with social services and that you can all find a way to resolve this with everyones best interests at heart.

Can you come with us to our next meeting please, lol!! You have summed up exactly how we feel, and no, we are not being heard. Though I think I have begun to get through to our GP, who had definitely been 'taken in' by the paediatrician's grossly exaggerated assessment of the situation. GP has now, finally, (I asked weeks ago), written to the paed., to tell him we won't be coming back, and is actively lookinjg to refer her elsewhere. I am upset that our local hospital won't take her back, just because she didn't like her previous consultant there; he isn't even there anymore, so what's their problem?!! We had a fantastic DSN there, and I would have really welcomed her input and support now.

However, although the 'nasty' paed., (and I'm being very polite!), will no longer have Sophie on his 'list', the 'steam roller' he has set in motion will go on running, the equally nasty head teacher will see to that. I tried ringing my union about a solicitor, as suggested by another person on here, (thanks!), and but they haven't got back to me; so that's something else I have got to do later!

I'd like to thank everyone who has 'posted' to me, and I'm sorry that I haven't replied sooner; I just don't get a lot of time. It means a lot to me, that there are people who care and understand.

 

[bev]

Mel and Sophie,
It seems to me that the relationship with your local hospital can never be repaired - so it may be a good time to move on and start all over again.

I also think that writing a diary of just one day in Sophies management of her diabetes might help them to understand the difficulties she is facing with tiredness and inability to physically inject when she feels weak and ill. Sometimes people make lots of assumptions about situations that are completely wrong - so it may help to open their eyes to what is *really* happening as opposed to what they assume happening. Perhaps if they see how tough things are for Sophie they will help to find ways around some of her 'problems' and give some positive input rather than threatening to put her into care. I also noted the other night that sleeping is a problem - so perhaps they could start with addressing this as sleep deprevation creats so much chaos that its no surprise that things get on top of Sophie. She is a young lady who has so much to deal with and she needs help and support - and a way of moving forward that suits you both. I really hope they read your diary (if you do one) and can offer you some constructive support.

Sophie, please dont dismiss any counselling or a phsycologist straight away - my son has seen one as he was having trouble with accepting his diagnosis and there is no shame in it. My son did benefit from speaking to someone about how he felt. If you did agree to seeing someone - perhaps this would be enough in itself to stop them from taking any proceedings. 🙂Bev

 

[Adrienne]

Hi Melanie and Sophieee

Welcome to the list, Sophiee I think I 'spoke' to you on another thread about pumps. I'm so sorry for all you are going through.

I am now going to play devil's advocate here. Please do not take this as that I am not supporting you, I will support anyone with diabetes as the others on here can say but I do know a bit about care proceedings having worked in a lawyers for 22 years who deal with care proceedings and I know about pumps etc etc.

Re the pump. A pump is a dangerous piece of equipment. It is not good to give a pump to someone whose HbA1c is as high as Sophiees and the wherewithal is not there to bolus. I have no experience of ME so please bear with me. If you are too tired to sometimes inject, then the same will possibly happen with the bolus on a pump. You may well be too tired to think about how to do it and what to do. Dealing with a pump is hard work (harder than injections), the thinking behind it is huge and takes a huge amount of effort mentally as you have to think about things on an hourly basis.

With a pump it is far easier and so much quicker to go into DKA than on injections so for that reason a pump is generally not given.

None of that is directed personally to you, it is just general.

Care proceedings. Until a child is 16 he/she is a child in the eyes of the law. Therefore in the eyes of the law the parent has sole responsibility for everything. If they don't attend school due to truanting the parent goes to prison (I've seen this happen many a time). If the authorities feel that the child is missing injections, generally not doing it right, then it is the parent's fault. They can be taken to court for care proceedings as it is negligence. However as in this case Sophiee is 15, she will get a right of say but this is a health issue so who knows what will happen.

I do know of a case where the child was type 1 and the child was not getting all the insulin injections and the doctors were called to give evidence and it was negligence. The child was younger but still old enough to do his own injections. The parents were failing the child.

Sophiee, I really feel for you, I really do but I want to just say one thing that I know you won't like or agree with, you say you won't allow your mother to do your injection if you can't manage it as it hurts. If you carry on like that then when the complications set in, and they will, you will be in so much more pain than now. I really really urge you to let your mum start helping you physically as well as mentally which you say she does already as you can talk to her.

From a mum's point of view, this must be breaking your mum's heart seeing you go through this hurt and pain. I don't expect you to fully understand that because I never did, not until I had a child. A mother's love is so powerful, more than any other love in the world, believe me, it is so hard to comprehend unless you have a child. None of this is your fault and none of this is your mum's fault but you can work together to get this sorted and it will take huge compromises from you and your mum. Once you can do that and you get things on some sort of track, you will be able to say 'stuff the system, look what we achieved. Your future will look brighter and less painful if you can sort this out sooner rather than later.

Please take care of yourselves, yours is a heartbreaking story and I wish you both well. 🙂

 

[runner]

Hi Melanie and Sophie,

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I would like to clarify a few things for you - first of all the paediatrician does not have the authority to 'start care proceedings.' If he is concerned about your welfare, he can make a referral to children's services. If he has done so, a social worker (there may be two) should make an apointment to see you and your mother to discuss the situation with you both. They will also contact other bodies such as school, gp etc. This could have two outcomes - their involvement is not always negative - they may offer to refer you to various support services or organisations who can fight your case re your access to health services, and help with any benenfits you may be entitiled to - It sounds as though you could apply for Disibility Living Allowance and related carer's asllowance, if you don't already get it. You may qualify for home care too. This may be the end of children's services involvement.

Alternatively, they may decide your welfare is at risk and follow local child protection procedures, which may not necessarily result in care proceedings (these can only happen through a court), or removing young people from home. The law (Children Acts) emphasises that families should be kept together where possible. Considering your age (nearly 16) and the fact your wishes and feelings must be taken into consideration, I think care proceedings, or any interim order to remove you from home are highly unlikely, particularly if your situation would not be improved by you living elsehwere. Just for general information, children and their families who are subject to care proceedings are entitled to their own solicitors and a guardian to represent their views in court.

I wonder the hospital are not concerned that you might take action against them for not treating you. You might want to get some legal advice about your various rights to treatment and rights to refusal of treatment.

Perhaps the community nurse could visit to give injections when your ME is bad if you and your mum are not happy about her doing this for you?

Hope this helps.

 

[Caroline]

Hi, sorry I'm only just replying - am sure you can understand with everything I got on my plate, (and my daughter's health probs are just PART of the 'overload'!), I don't actually get a lot of time to 'chat'. Anyway, thanks for your support, I really appreciate it.
MW

Melanie you are very welcome. Don't worry about taking a long time to reply, we will be here whenever you log on! You are working towards a solution, and there is a lot of advice and many suggestions here, so hopefully you are finding a way forwards. The fact you have the doctor on your side is good, although the headteacher doesn't sound helpful. When is Sophie 16? You will probably find an improvement when she leaves school as you wont have to deal with the nastiness there.

Even with no health problems in our children, parent hood can be quite a minefield, so you are doing a brilliant job in difficult circumstances and we are on your side!

 

[Adrienne]

Hi Melanie and Sophie,

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I would like to clarify a few things for you - first of all the paediatrician does not have the authority to 'start care proceedings.' If he is concerned about your welfare, he can make a referral to children's services. If he has done so, a social worker (there may be two) should make an apointment to see you and your mother to discuss the situation with you both. They will also contact other bodies such as school, gp etc. This could have two outcomes - their involvement is not always negative - they may offer to refer you to various support services or organisations who can fight your case re your access to health services, and help with any benenfits you may be entitiled to - It sounds as though you could apply for Disibility Living Allowance and related carer's asllowance, if you don't already get it. You may qualify for home care too. This may be the end of children's services involvement.

Alternatively, they may decide your welfare is at risk and follow local child protection procedures, which may not necessarily result in care proceedings (these can only happen through a court), or removing young people from home. The law (Children Acts) emphasises that families should be kept together where possible. Considering your age (nearly 16) and the fact your wishes and feelings must be taken into consideration, I think care proceedings, or any interim order to remove you from home are highly unlikely, particularly if your situation would not be improved by you living elsehwere. Just for general information, children and their families who are subject to care proceedings are entitled to their own solicitors and a guardian to represent their views in court.

I wonder the hospital are not concerned that you might take action against them for not treating you. You might want to get some legal advice about your various rights to treatment and rights to refusal of treatment.

Perhaps the community nurse could visit to give injections when your ME is bad if you and your mum are not happy about her doing this for you?

Hope this helps.

Yep agree with all of that.

 

[Tezzz]

I'm sorry to hear that it hurts when your mother gives you injections.

A teenage T1 boy I know refused to let anyone else do his injections because they hurt him. So his brother practiced inserting the pen needle on himself (without injecting any insulin) until he could do it pain free. His brother doesn't hurt him now.

Perhaps your mother could try this?

Oh and this lad gently "pinches an inch" and tried and now uses fresh short 31 gauge needles which are very fine.

Hope things get better for you soon.

 

[Ellowyne]

I'm sorry to hear that it hurts when your mother gives you injections.

A teenage T1 boy I know refused to let anyone else do his injections because they hurt him. So his brother practiced inserting the pen needle on himself (without injecting any insulin) until he could do it pain free. His brother doesn't hurt him now.

Perhaps your mother could try this?

Oh and this lad gently "pinches an inch" and tried and now uses fresh short 31 gauge needles which are very fine.

Hope things get better for you soon.

I even have short, 8mm '30 gauge' needles...very fine & painless 🙂 Changing from 31 to 30 Gauge does make a diffrence!...

At the end of the day though, if you need to take medication that you need, sometimes, we do have to do just what is needed even under stress and difficulties. I have had many problems with medication as I am very unwell.

I also have a son with severe Anxiety problems and mental health issues...I completly understand the pain that having an unwell child does to a parent. My pain for my son is much deeper than the pain I experience as a result of my own illness's. I guess, I am just trying to say that, sometimes, however difficult it is, we have two choices in life...to carry on and have faith, or give up! For me, no matter how painful life is, giving up is not an option.

All the best, Ellowyne.

 

[MelanieW]

I'm sorry to hear that it hurts when your mother gives you injections.

A teenage T1 boy I know refused to let anyone else do his injections because they hurt him. So his brother practiced inserting the pen needle on himself (without injecting any insulin) until he could do it pain free. His brother doesn't hurt him now.

Perhaps your mother could try this?

Oh and this lad gently "pinches an inch" and tried and now uses fresh short 31 gauge needles which are very fine.

Hope things get better for you soon.

Hi Tez, thanks for taking the time to comment. It's not that I hurt Sophie when I inject her, it's all to do with her ME: it hurts her to inject herself if she is lying down, so needs to sit up. Due to her ME she isn't always able to sit up; if she can sit up, she can do her injection. So, if she can't sit up, she can't inject, and I can't do it for her in that position. Quite apart from that, she has found injecting is a very personal thing for her, and doesn't like the thought of anyone coming anywhere near her with a needle! This is why she has asked for a pump - once it is in place, I can 'take charge' of it, when she isn't able to. Though I take on board everything that has been said about pumps. It's a very difficult and distressing situation to be in, for both of us, and as someone said earlier - my heart does break for her. I dread the years ahead, when she may well be told she is going blind, or she needs kidney dialysis, or worse. I do feel very badly let down by the 'system', and anyone who thinks that using coercion, (i.e my daughter's paediatrician), is seriously misguided, and plain WRONG!

Sorry, I moaned on a bit, but it is really getting me down.

 

[runner]

I do feel very badly let down by the 'system', and anyone who thinks that using coercion, (i.e my daughter's paediatrician), is seriously misguided, and plain WRONG!

Sorry, I moaned on a bit, but it is really getting me down.

I'm not surprised Melanie, and I agree with you wholeheartedly about the coercion. Not the best way to encourage someone to use services to help themselves! Hang on in there, and drop in here for support.

 

[bev]

Hi Mel and Sophie,
I dont know a lot about M.E, but i know its painful. I was wondering whether the 'magic cream' used on little children may be of use to Sophie if it hurts to inject? Also some parents use ice cubes to numb the area before injecting - sorry if you have already tried these things - just trying to find a way for you both.🙂Bev

 

[sofaraway]

What about injecting in the arms or legs, as I don't think they would be much different lying down or sitting up? Not sure if you have already tried that?

 

[falcon123]

Hi Tez, thanks for taking the time to comment. It's not that I hurt Sophie when I inject her, it's all to do with her ME: it hurts her to inject herself if she is lying down, so needs to sit up. Due to her ME she isn't always able to sit up; if she can sit up, she can do her injection. So, if she can't sit up, she can't inject, and I can't do it for her in that position.

When Sophie is unable to sit up is she usually in bed? The reason I ask in that when a friend's brother in law was very weak (diabetes, heart disease and cancer) the family were loaned an electric bed so he could be sat up on bad days.

 

[Tezzz]

I don't know if you're on basal and bolus or mixed insulin.

I know basal injections can be painful so I guess mixed insulin could hurt too.

The T1 lad I know suggested you let someone else inject into your bottom. I guess you would find it easier to roll over than to try and sit up.

Hope that helps.

 

[MelanieW]

I don't know if you're on basal and bolus or mixed insulin.

I know basal injections can be painful so I guess mixed insulin could hurt too.

The T1 lad I know suggested you let someone else inject into your bottom. I guess you would find it easier to roll over than to try and sit up.

Hope that helps.

Thanks! Her bum is the ONE site Sophie won't entertain an injection, despite numerous attempts at persuasion by me and her nurse! She has said that she will let me try in her arm, coz as someone else on here said, that shouldn't really make any difference whether she's lay down or not. She's on MDI, and has been for several years. She used to have Lantus for the slow acting insulin but changed because it stung too much - has anyone else found that? She still gets the odd twinge with the Levemir, but not as much.

 

[bev]

Hi Mel,
I am on another forum just for children and lots of them complain that Lantus stings when its going in. I dont know why - but it does.Did you see my message about the 'magic cream' - I know its for little children - but it numbs the area and perhaps might help it stop hurting S.🙂Bev

 

[MelanieW]

Hi Mel,
I am on another forum just for children and lots of them complain that Lantus stings when its going in. I dont know why - but it does.Did you see my message about the 'magic cream' - I know its for little children - but it numbs the area and perhaps might help it stop hurting S.🙂Bev

Thanks Bev, I'll have word with daughter and see if she's willing to give that a go. Stroppy, 'got a mind of my own' teenagers eh? At least when our off-spring are younger, they TEND to have to do as they are told lol!

I'm so worried about the process the doctor has started, and it's all a nonsense. He's abusing his position of power because he obviously isn't used to having patients disagree with him. The fact that Sophie has NEVER, apart from diagnosis six years ago, been hospitalised, surely speaks for itself, that I AM managing it? I know of lots of teenagers who are in and out of hospital in DKA, or on the verge of. Of course I understand we need to keep striving for better control, but force and threats are not the answer!

My son has frightened me further, (though I know he didn't mean to), as he knows several people who either work in social 'care', or are in the middle of training to be social workers. They've been telling him, that since the Baby P scandal, (and WHAT a tragedy that was), the numbers of children taken into care has sky-rocketed, and they are taken for the most trivial of reasons. The practice now seems to be: take away quickly, argue later, leaving the parent/s to have to go to Court to get them back. I can't begin to even think what that would do to my precious daughter, let alone me.

He says that his friends have told him, that if the social workers at the next school meeting, decide to 'act', Sophie will be gone the same day. I don't even know how, or why that meeting should still be going ahead, as the paediatrician responsible is no longer my daughter's doctor. (He was the Chair). Does anyone know whether he still has a right to be there, even though he is no longer Sophie's consultant?

We still waiting for a response to our GP's request that she be seen under the Adult Care at the local hospital, and failing that, he will refer her further afield, probably Manchester. I keep thinking, I'm going to wake up from this nightmare, but at the moment, it just goes on and on. Sorry, I have gone on a bit, haven't I?!!