Carbs and blood sugars

[Vicky Lake]

Hi

I adopted a vegan diet and my blood sugars are staying too high, when I say vegan I mean real food not processed so typical food is vegetable juices, avocados, bananas, berries, vegetables, rice, oats, nuts, seeds and some goji berries in the soaked oats. Looked at the vegan menu and compared the carb load and found that is average 20 grams a day higher than my existing diet so, a little stumped, only on vegan diet to improve my intake of whole foods its not I do not like meat but, having been ill for over 4 months I hoped the extra nutrition of loads of vegetables, whole foods would help but, my blood sugars do not like it at all, staying around 8-12 on average mostly under 10s with some spikes up as far as 20 (once) Please keep in mind I have an infection that wont clear for over 17 weeks which I know will impact blood sugars too.

Any suggestions welcome, thank you

God bless you

Vicky

 

[Kaylz]

Have you tried low carb? Oats, rice and bananas are particularly very high carb

 

[Vicky Lake]

yes I have tried low carb I just dont know how to do low carb as a vegan, any suggestions?
x

 

[Drummer]

If you are only trying to go vegan because it is supposed to be healthy then I would advise going back to eating an omnivorous diet, as it is what Humans do best on.
Remember that grains in the forms we have them now are as a result of intensive alteration in the last century, and even before that they were selected for yield and other features, not their health giving qualities, which have never been tested, never mind proven.
I do have some low carb breads in the freezer, but they are only there to eat with kippers - otherwise I stick to low carb salad and veges - but I can only manage to eat the equivalent of about 200calories in a day - I need to have proteins and fats to make up the shortfall and the easiest way is meat, fish, eggs, seafood, cheese. I am at the top edge of normal, but many others see a return to total normality - why struggle to eat a vegan diet?

 

[Vicky Lake]

thank you

whats your typical days menu look like please, hope that is okay to ask such a direct question, thanks

God bless you
xoxox

 

[karloc]

I agree with @Drummer , don't go vegan as a healthy option because its much harder to get a healthy balance for 'healthy' people on a vegan diet so trying to do it while trying to control your BG would be much harder.

I would speak to your doctor about your long term infection before making any major changes because if you drop your BG it might make it worse, it all depends I believe on what sort of infection. Some you need the glucose to fight it and some the glucose feeds the infection.

Pretty much as a type2 diabetic Carbs = Glucose so if you want to reduce your BG its less carbs or burn more through exercise or combination of both.
I went extreme (super low carbs) and brought my BG down from 13eqv (HbA1c) and few days in when i got a tester 9.5 to 4.7 in about 10 days. But with your other issue - Check with your GP first!

Good luck 🙂

 

[Vicky Lake]

thank you, I have abdominal cellulitis due to being obese and diabetes, they are not addressing the root issue, just throwing antibiotics at it whenever my temp goes over 38.3 or, my crp gets too high or, I land in hospital
GP wont get involved as not her field of expertise she will just continue monitoring my bloods
x

 

[karloc]

thank you, I have abdominal cellulitis due to being obese and diabetes, they are not addressing the root issue, just throwing antibiotics at it whenever my temp goes over 38.3 or, my crp gets too high or, I land in hospital
GP wont get involved as not her field of expertise she will just continue monitoring my bloods
x

Sorry to hear that, sounds nasty.
I did some very quick googling and I first thoughts are having a high BG is probably making it worse. But I am not a doctor and I would try and force the doctor to get involved (easier said than done sometimes).
Personally I would crash my BG levels by going as close to zero carbs as possible but keeping calorie levels to not loose weight while you fight the infection. (but doing much more research on your infection type)
When I was first diagnosed I was having problems with thrush (far less serious and easily associated with high glucose levels) and dropping my BG cured it in a few days.
You need to do what you are comfortable with and remind your doctor its her job to get involved and if she is not knowledgeable enough then she should be referring you to experts that can help.

 

[Vicky Lake]

yes it is very nasty and, in its 17th week already. would love to force gp into being more involved but I have tried, will try again on Monday
consultant first admission told me to go no carb but I just cant get my head around no fruit or vegetables at all so, tried opposite as this post shows, high blood sugars wont help this infection reduce it will feed it, it is caused by diabetes and obesity
have thrush as been on antibiotics 14 weeks of the past 17 weeks and very likely the blood sugar levels too
not sure there are any experts sadly cant find what field of medicine this comes under
trying to find a new way of eating that allows me to eat what I feel is right and nutritious too
xoxox

 

[karloc]

As the consultant said no carbs was the way to go then that sounds like the best plan.

The lower you can get your carbs the faster your BG will drop.
Do you have a BG tester? If you manage to drop your BG it may well bounce up again as your body releases glucose you may have stored but I found it only takes a few days to use up these if you stop putting carbs in.
Are you on any medication for your diabetes which might cause issues if you get your BG right down low.

Fish is always a good option as they have lots of good stuff in, mushrooms are quite low on carbs, eggs are full of goodness, some veg are reasonably low in carbs. Can also use vitamin supplements in the short term if you think you are some specifics missing - although watch out for the glucose they often contain.
Google is very handy for looking up nutrition facts to understand where those carbs hide.

Good luck

 

[Vicky Lake]

seems alien to not eat any fruit or vegetables as meat wont give me full nutrition

get that lower carb will help tho
yes have monitor
no medication and hope to keep it that way last hba1c was 48, one before was 45, being tested again December if trend continues know they will want medication hence posting

thanks, will try and get back onto low carb under 50 grams to start with as been around 240 grams a day on vegan diet
x

 

[Drummer]

You seen to have the wrong end of the stick - to go low carb cut out the high carb foods - grain, potatoes, high sugar fruits, and have salads and stirfries of low carb veges, and a couple of times a week some frozen berries with cream.
Meat is actually very nutritious, as long as it has enough fat - consider that people in hot or cold deserts survive on meat or fish for long periods with no ill effects.

 

[karloc]

seems alien to not eat any fruit or vegetables as meat wont give me full nutrition

With variety I am sure its possible to get better nutrition than you think.

The way I look at it is - solving 1 problem at a time. Especially with a nasty infection.

The plan I am doing is extreme as I have been dropping BG and weight at the same time.
I also take the view that if I am going to reverse my insulin resistance and the best way is to have low insulin levels to give my body the best chance to recover. And as Carbs = glucose = insulin in my mind its simple (at least the theory). and as insulin blocks fat stores being used it works for weight loss also.
Once I have my BG and weight under control I can start adding some more balance with some of the 'better' carbs into my diet. Whilst some of the better carbs are supposed to help with insulin resistance I am not convinced that they will be much help atm after I have got my body in this mess. I am basically doing 10-20 carbs per day (with the odd day a few more). I have bottomed out my BG at 4.0 and kept it there all day (once) with 0 carbs - so I know my body will make glucose if needed.

 

[Jodee]

Juices / smoothies may not be a good option as this is processed and quickly converts to glucose in the blood stream, so restrict the amount of juices you have, I definitely wouldn't be having them every day. If you have brown rice have no more than a heaped table spoon with main meal. If you are ok with animal protein do take some with all the vegetables, protein, fish, chicken, eggs, cheese. Or alternatively days you don't want to take animal protein be sure to have pulses or tofu. Too much fruit at a time can be a problem. When I eat bananas I would take half a small banana at a time. Or if a large banana I would make that into 3 portions. On average, if you eat fruit have small quantities in any one sitting. You may benefit from attending a DESMOND course (FOR TYPE 2) regarding dietary recommendation options, or the Expert Patient Diabetes course. The GP can refer you for the DESMOND course and you can self refer for the Expert course. https://www.xperthealth.org.uk/Programmes On both course a dietician will be involved so well worth going if you are feeling up to it.
Portion size of the carbs will help also. On the course I attended it was suggested that protein portion size to fit in the palm of your hand.

If you are going to go low and no carbs you will need protein to stave off some of the hunger, alternatively just cut the portion size of carbs each meal half or 1/3rd of what you have been doing. Personally I don't do no or near to no carbs, but I do try to stay with low or lower carbs per meal, even that works for me, it doesn't always work the same for everyone, some feel they need to go minimal carbs because their blood glucose spikes so much when they eat carbs, but if you test yourself before food and 2 hours after you will get to know what spikes more and sometimes it is just the quantity of carbs in any one meal that determins how much or how little your BG spikes.

So sorry you've had the infection for so long, yes for sure this will impact on your blood glucose levels. If you can manage a little exercise throughout the day even for short periods 2-3 times a day this will help bring blood glucose lower but I understand when your temperature is so high you won't be able to manage much.

I hope you will be feeling much better soon. Take good care. You definitely need to try and get your blood glucose levels down.

Best wishes

 

[Drummer]

seems alien to not eat any fruit or vegetables as meat wont give me full nutrition

get that lower carb will help tho
yes have monitor
no medication and hope to keep it that way last hba1c was 48, one before was 45, being tested again December if trend continues know they will want medication hence posting

thanks, will try and get back onto low carb under 50 grams to start with as been around 240 grams a day on vegan diet
x

Reducing the carbs you eat and lowering the glucose in your blood as a result ought to make a difference to the ability of microbes to flourish.
I was able to return to normal blood glucose and Hba1c numbers on 50 gm of carbs a day - and I lost the drooping fold of belly in a few weeks too - I have been a lot happier over the Summer as I did not get sores as in previous years eating a 'healthy' high carb diet.

 

[Eddy Edson]

seems alien to not eat any fruit or vegetables as meat wont give me full nutrition

get that lower carb will help tho
yes have monitor
no medication and hope to keep it that way last hba1c was 48, one before was 45, being tested again December if trend continues know they will want medication hence posting

thanks, will try and get back onto low carb under 50 grams to start with as been around 240 grams a day on vegan diet
x

It's great to hear how other people are taming the D-beast but you have to remember that nobody is an expert at it, beyond taming their own D-beast. IMO the only useful "rules" are:

- Eat in line with all of the usual healthy eating guidance.
- Except modify as necessary for carbs; and to work out what is necessary, test before & after eating to see what does what to you. This is different for everybody, and will change over time.
- Lose weight, by cutting calories. All of the credible research and studies show that (a) weight loss is the most effective thing for T2D over the medium/long term, for most people (b) the Internet commentary you see suggesting that calories don't matter, only carbs, is wrong.

My approach was to cut fruit and other nutritionally excellent carby foods only as much as I had to. For many people, not just diabetics, grains have a big impact on BG. But cutting them completely means you may not get enough and enough diversity in fibre, which would be bad. My solution was to replace grains with seeds - nutritionally excellent, huge amounts of fibre, minimal BG impact. Overall, I went "moderate carb" - 130g+ per day earlier on, increasing fruit etc as my BG got more under control, now generally 175g - 200g.

I was borderline-normal for weight at diagnosis, with a BMI of 25, but I ground off a stack of weight over a few months and it had a big impact. By 6 months after diagnosis my BG levels and profile were "non-diabetic". After about a year, my HbA1c was down to 27 - I think that was a bit of an anomaly, but I expect my next HbA1c in a few weeks to be in the lower 30's.

Like everybody else here, I'm just another schmo posting on the Internet and I don't have the chutzpah to suggest that this is the approach you must take. But I'd recommend listening to yr instincts re fruit and veggies as a starting point.

 

[silentsquirrel]

Juices / smoothies may not be a good option as this is processed and quickly converts to glucose in the blood stream, so restrict the amount of juices you have, I definitely wouldn't be having them every day. If you have brown rice have no more than a heaped table spoon with main meal. If you are ok with animal protein do take some with all the vegetables, protein, fish, chicken, eggs, cheese. Or alternatively days you don't want to take animal protein be sure to have pulses or tofu. Too much fruit at a time can be a problem. When I eat bananas I would take half a small banana at a time. Or if a large banana I would make that into 3 portions. On average, if you eat fruit have small quantities in any one sitting. You may benefit from attending a DAFNE course regarding dietary recommendation options, or the Expert Patient Diabetes course. The GP can refer you for the DAFNE course and you can self refer for the Expert course. https://www.xperthealth.org.uk/Programmes On both course a dietician will be involved so well worth going if you are feeling up to it.
Portion size of the carbs will help also. On the course I attended it was suggested that protein portion size to fit in the palm of your hand.

If you are going to go low and no carbs you will need protein to stave off some of the hunger, alternatively just cut the portion size of carbs each meal half or 1/3rd of what you have been doing. Personally I don't do no or near to no carbs, but I do try to stay with low or lower carbs per meal, even that works for me, it doesn't always work the same for everyone, some feel they need to go minimal carbs because their blood glucose spikes so much when they eat carbs, but if you test yourself before food and 2 hours after you will get to know what spikes more and sometimes it is just the quantity of carbs in any one meal that determins how much or how little your BG spikes.

So sorry you've had the infection for so long, yes for sure this will impact on your blood glucose levels. If you can manage a little exercise throughout the day even for short periods 2-3 times a day this will help bring blood glucose lower but I understand when your temperature is so high you won't be able to manage much.

I hope you will be feeling much better soon. Take good care. You definitely need to try and get your blood glucose levels down.

Best wishes

I am pretty sure DAFNE is only available to T1s.

 

[DaveB]

Hi. You've had a lot of good advice so far. Be careful with the Vegan thing as it's become trendy and people have forgotten what it means i.e. not eating meat which is fine, but otherwise it doesn't define 'healthy'. Definitely reduce the carbs to keep BS under control and to help lose weight. A lot of veg are low carb and have fibre so do have some veg but keep the very carby root veg down. Fruit is fine but avoid high sugar tropical fruits. Bananas are a No-No for us. Be careful with diet/nutrition courses of any kind. Some will be very good but many still follow the low 'sugar/salt/fat' mantra which won't help at all. Make sure you have protein of some kind together with some fat, veg and fruit.

 

[Vicky Lake]

heading back to low carb, need to find wild fish to add into menu but, until then it shall be good quality meat and low carb fruits/veggies

thank you all for such good support and advice
xoxox

 

[karloc]

good luck 🙂