Carb intake

[Dragonheart]

45 to 60% of calories from carbs …….If that let the T2 hit their targets then all well and good, if not the T2 walked up through the quantity and quality of medication available until good control was achieved.

And that was also why it was seen as progressive until the last few years when remission was acknowledged as a reality.

Recently the dietary agenda at Diabetes UK has been seized by low carb fanatics ( low carbing is more of a cult than a diet) and now a very wooden, one-size-fits-all recommendation of 130 grams of carbs per day is given. The 130 figure is basic since the brain is said to need the amount of glucose a day produced to that provided by 130 grams of carbs.

Fantatics? Cult? Please anyone reading take that with a large pinch of salt and recognise it for opinion not fact. 130g of glucose for the brain can be produced by the body from other foods, with zero carbs being eaten. It’s called gluconeogenisis. But i agree that’s likely why that amount is often quoted as being needed even if they mix up glucose and carbs.

In 2017 the DiRECT study of Roy Taylor went back to a high carb diet (the Newcastle Diet) with a recommended maintenance diet, after losing 15 kg of weight on a crash diet, of 61% of calories coming from carbs.

Even if all 800 calories came from carbs - they don’t - then it would still be 200g carbs a day, not exactly high carb even if it’s not low. The Newcastle diet is a low calorie program not a high carb one.

Traditionally low carbing was frowned on for T2s because a sustainable change of diet and lifestyle was recommended. Plus low carbing was/is associated with problems like cardio disease, kidney problems, thyroid problems and other things like adrenal fatigue. Those problems were what led to the drastic revision of the Atkins Diet in 2012.

Low carb can be sustainable. Lots of people have now been doing it years. There’s lots of scare stories and myths surrounding low carb the vast majority are either plain wrong, only apply to a small minority likely with other conditions to consider or are easily avoided. As with anything doing your research first and checking any other conditions or medications are not contraindicated is wise.

Prof Christies work at Cardiff University suggested that optimal HbA1c for T2s was between 6.5 and 8.0% ( about 48 to 70 in new money) and that driving down A1cs to low levels was dangerous for T2s because of unintended consequences. Lowest is not best for T2s suggest some researchers with regard to HbA1c.

One of the reasons for setting goals within the diabetic range is because they were mostly achieved by medication means, whereby hypos and side effects needed to be considered. Hypos can cause an erratic blood glucose level to average out (ie an hb1ac) to a reasonable number despite some serious highs and lows. Not a good thing. It is a consideration, particularly for those of advancing age and with comorbidities to consider the overall burden of health management and the implications of falls etc from a hypo. However to suggest that all type 2 need to maintain above diagnostic levels is plain crazy.

For those achieving remission without medication there is no risk of hypo. The good hba1c isn’t a distortion of reality being made to look good by hypos. It’s all reasonable numbers without highs or lows. Graphically it’s a flatish line not the Himalayas. This old fashioned restricted thinking of hb1ac is finally being replaced now that cgm can prove good control isn’t being obtained via hypos. Also in type 1 I believe the focus is changing to time in range, supporting an even level without extremes.

We all have our preferences in management but please let’s not get stuck in the past, turn us all into one homogeneous group that need and react to the same things, or use tabloid style scare tactics for methods that are not our chosen option.

 

[Suky R]

Brazil nuts must mean Christmas since one simply could not purchase nuts at any other time of year - same as oranges, only available in the winter. Went to Portugal in our motorhome for a few months over Xmas and New Year once, itinerant salesmen at points either side of the main road from Mway into Albufeira - 1 Euro per 2kg net bag, get it back to the campsite, hang bag on lower branch of nearest tree and consume at own leisure. As my dad was the only person in the house with enough hand strength to successfully crack a brazilnut shell, so an occasional treat for the other 3 of us. Mom's Xmas box of Black Magic always had a choc covered one but big sis and I knew she liked em, so avoided them when younger, though once she had false teeth both top and bottom, we could choose one if we wanted! Hence I never consider nuts of any sort as 'proper food' if you see what I mean. OTOH a vegetarian lady in a book club I used to belong to invited us lot to a meal she wanted to cook for us and knowing none of the rest of us were veggie asked what we'd like to eat and one of the others said she'd personally be quite happy with whatever Judith felt she'd like to serve us - knowing that she was pretty healthy on it, which the rest of us were more than happy to go along with, thanks. The most delicious stuffed marrow, half a side apiece - and she told us the filling was basically exactly the same as she'd lob in a loaf tin, cook and serve as a nut roast. Never got the recipe since even then - been donkey's years since I'd even seen a marrow for sale in a greengrocer's, now, can say the same about any such a shop.

❤️

 

[Suky R]

Brazil nuts are not a favorite of mine.its meals I need help with as I have to loose weight as well

Same here

 

[grovesy]

Brazil nuts are a favourite of mine but ca no longer eat, as they affect my Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

 

[Suky R]

Brazil nuts are a favourite of mine but ca no longer eat, as they affect my Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

I've got confused...how many is a healthy amount on a daily basis
Obviously I wouldn't try to eat them everyday

 

[grovesy]

I can't eat any with upsetting my gut.

 

[nonethewiser]

Brazil nuts must mean Christmas since one simply could not purchase nuts at any other time of year - same as oranges, only available in the winter. Went to Portugal in our motorhome for a few months over Xmas and New Year once, itinerant salesmen at points either side of the main road from Mway into Albufeira - 1 Euro per 2kg net bag, get it back to the campsite, hang bag on lower branch of nearest tree and consume at own leisure. As my dad was the only person in the house with enough hand strength to successfully crack a brazilnut shell, so an occasional treat for the other 3 of us. Mom's Xmas box of Black Magic always had a choc covered one but big sis and I knew she liked em, so avoided them when younger, though once she had false teeth both top and bottom, we could choose one if we wanted! Hence I never consider nuts of any sort as 'proper food' if you see what I mean. OTOH a vegetarian lady in a book club I used to belong to invited us lot to a meal she wanted to cook for us and knowing none of the rest of us were veggie asked what we'd like to eat and one of the others said she'd personally be quite happy with whatever Judith felt she'd like to serve us - knowing that she was pretty healthy on it, which the rest of us were more than happy to go along with, thanks. The most delicious stuffed marrow, half a side apiece - and she told us the filling was basically exactly the same as she'd lob in a loaf tin, cook and serve as a nut roast. Never got the recipe since even then - been donkey's years since I'd even seen a marrow for sale in a greengrocer's, now, can say the same about any such a shop.

We went to Albufeira in 1991, at time new town part was being heavily developed, we spent most our time in old town which was beautiful with some great fish dishes on restaurant menus.

 

[Proud to be erratic]

I've got confused...how many is a healthy amount on a daily basis
Obviously I wouldn't try to eat them everyday

3 or 4 daily Brazil nuts, if you like them and can afford them. I was just pointing out that 7 daily is inappropriate.

 

[Suky R]

3 or 4 daily Brazil nuts, if you like them and can afford them. I was just pointing out that 7 daily is inappropriate.

Ok thanks, yh nuts are definitely expensive

 

[Drummer]

Congrats that's wonderful news
Wasn't 40g a day hard to do
What meal did you skip

Not difficult when having foods which are 10% carbs or less, other than a small amount of high cocoa chocolate once in a while. My meter showed that I should eat fewer carbs in the morning, so I would have a tomato or small amount of green salad, with some coleslaw, and a mug of coffee. If I decide to have coffee first then it is easy to forget to eat that first meal. If I am going out for the day I will plan something like steak and stirfry or a pork chop and mushrooms and make sure I get up in time to prepare and eat it, but I am never hungry these days.

 

[Lurcher67]

Not difficult when having foods which are 10% carbs or less, other than a small amount of high cocoa chocolate once in a while. My meter showed that I should eat fewer carbs in the morning, so I would have a tomato or small amount of green salad, with some coleslaw, and a mug of coffee. If I decide to have coffee first then it is easy to forget to eat that first meal. If I am going out for the day I will plan something like steak and stirfry or a pork chop and mushrooms and make sure I get up in time to prepare and eat it, but I am never hungry these days.

Well done on achieving remission, this obviously works for you but I don’t think that this is sustainable for most, well certainly not myself. If I had to survive on one or two meals, then I would probably give up after a while. I am trying to reduce carbs and cut out previous bad habits. Even doing this I have been steadily losing weight over the past few months (diagnosed Apr 23) even though my bmi was in the normal range at diagnosis and has been so for years. I don’t think I could maintain my weight with a salad for breakfast and one other meal. I do agree that I am less hungry than when on my previous eating habits (lots of bread, crisps etc).
I dont intend to dismiss your method of achieving remission, only to re-assure others newly diagnosed that you can reduce your HbA1c with less extreme changes to lifestyle.

 

[Dragonheart]

If I had to survive on one or two meals, then I would probably give up after a while.

It’s not like that though. Once you step off the carb rollercoaster of peaks and troughs and reset your hunger hormones and become efficient at fat burning then you actually don’t get so hungry. It happens naturally for most of us without a deliberate decision to skip meals. And it’s not about eating less food overall but about eating more nutritious, satisfying, longer lasting foods, which is a million miles from existing on salads and minimal calories like diets of old. I know it sounds unbelievable and many have previously felt the same as you about it but then been completely surprised how much their eating patterns changed over time. You are right not everyone needs to go to keto levels of carbs to regain control, but some of us do need to and many of us find it’s actually a more satisfying way of eating once we adapt to it.

 

[Leadinglights]

It’s not like that though. Once you step off the carb rollercoaster of peaks and troughs and reset your hunger hormones and become efficient at fat burning then you actually don’t get so hungry. It happens naturally for most of us without a deliberate decision to skip meals. And it’s not about eating less food overall but about eating more nutritious, satisfying, longer lasting foods, which is a million miles from existing on salads and minimal calories like diets of old. I know it sounds unbelievable and many have previously felt the same as you about it but then been completely surprised how much their eating patterns changed over time. You are right not everyone needs to go to keto levels of carbs to regain control, but some of us do need to and many of us find it’s actually a more satisfying way of eating once we adapt to it.

I would often find when I was at work that I would take my lunch but because of my timetable or I was just too busy I would not have eaten my lunch so just didn't bother so was not eating anything between breakfast at 7am and dinner at 8pm.
That all went to pot when I retired and was having lunch regularly.

 

[Suky R]

Well done on achieving remission, this obviously works for you but I don’t think that this is sustainable for most, well certainly not myself. If I had to survive on one or two meals, then I would probably give up after a while. I am trying to reduce carbs and cut out previous bad habits. Even doing this I have been steadily losing weight over the past few months (diagnosed Apr 23) even though my bmi was in the normal range at diagnosis and has been so for years. I don’t think I could maintain my weight with a salad for breakfast and one other meal. I do agree that I am less hungry than when on my previous eating habits (lots of bread, crisps etc).
I dont intend to dismiss your method of achieving remission, only to re-assure others newly diagnosed that you can reduce your HbA1c with less extreme changes to lifestyle.

Thank you for the reassurance
Like your self suddenly have to cut out carb intake was like going cold turkey
Especially crisps and sandwich lunch time.
I started treating myself to one bag a week now one bag every two weeks
Potatoes were a struggle and still is but gett there.
I have also found not as hungry as I used to be

 

[nonethewiser]

Well done on achieving remission, this obviously works for you but I don’t think that this is sustainable for most, well certainly not myself. If I had to survive on one or two meals, then I would probably give up after a while. I am trying to reduce carbs and cut out previous bad habits. Even doing this I have been steadily losing weight over the past few months (diagnosed Apr 23) even though my bmi was in the normal range at diagnosis and has been so for years. I don’t think I could maintain my weight with a salad for breakfast and one other meal. I do agree that I am less hungry than when on my previous eating habits (lots of bread, crisps etc).
I dont intend to dismiss your method of achieving remission, only to re-assure others newly diagnosed that you can reduce your HbA1c with less extreme changes to lifestyle.

Think I were to survive on 1 meal then you'd be able to post me through a letterbox.

Food is to be enjoyed as its one of few pleasures in life, keep doing what your doing as it seems to be working for you.

 

[Suky R]

Think I were to survive on 1 meal then you'd be able to post me through a letterbox.

Food is to be enjoyed as its one of few pleasures in life, keep doing what your doing as it seems to be working for you.

 

[Lurcher67]

It’s not like that though. Once you step off the carb rollercoaster of peaks and troughs and reset your hunger hormones and become efficient at fat burning then you actually don’t get so hungry. It happens naturally for most of us without a deliberate decision to skip meals. And it’s not about eating less food overall but about eating more nutritious, satisfying, longer lasting foods, which is a million miles from existing on salads and minimal calories like diets of old. I know it sounds unbelievable and many have previously felt the same as you about it but then been completely surprised how much their eating patterns changed over time. You are right not everyone needs to go to keto levels of carbs to regain control, but some of us do need to and many of us find it’s actually a more satisfying way of eating once we adapt to it.

Hi, as I say I am quite new to this so trying to adapt slowly. I guess if I can’t get control then I may try this. I am not trying to lose weight so I guess the meals that I would need to eat should contain more calories from protein and fat to compensate for the lack of carbs. I do feel less hungry, but still usually eat a minimum of 2 meals a day, usually 3. I do believe that this works for you and others but think it could be scary for a lot of newly diagnosed T2’s to have such a radical new way of eating from diagnosis, though I can only really speak for myself.

 

[Suky R]

Hi, as I say I am quite new to this so trying to adapt slowly. I guess if I can’t get control then I may try this. I am not trying to lose weight so I guess the meals that I would need to eat should contain more calories from protein and fat to compensate for the lack of carbs. I do feel less hungry, but still usually eat a minimum of 2 meals a day, usually 3. I do believe that this works for you and others but think it could be scary for a lot of newly diagnosed T2’s to have such a radical new way of eating from diagnosis, though I can only really speak for myself.

I agree it has been daunting last few months, got diagnosed in August....still trying to work out what suits me, I do know I need three meals and can go without snacks if needed
As my hunger isn't as strong as before I am eating less snacks naturally.
Also I do enjoy food so it mentally makes me feel better after a meal

 

[rebrascora]

Hi, as I say I am quite new to this so trying to adapt slowly. I guess if I can’t get control then I may try this. I am not trying to lose weight so I guess the meals that I would need to eat should contain more calories from protein and fat to compensate for the lack of carbs. I do feel less hungry, but still usually eat a minimum of 2 meals a day, usually 3. I do believe that this works for you and others but think it could be scary for a lot of newly diagnosed T2’s to have such a radical new way of eating from diagnosis, though I can only really speak for myself.

I think you are perhaps misinterpreting @Drummer's post. The one or two meals a day instead of 3 isn't a suggestion of what people should do or need to aim for, it just happens when you reduce the carbs enough. I don't go full keto, usually about 70-90g carbs a day, but I do eat plenty of fat (real cream in my coffee, cheese nuts, plenty of creamy Greek natural Yoghurt, avocado, plenty of fat or oil in my cooking... so cabbage always gets cooked with a good knob of butter, my broccoli gets a coating of sour cream and chives, I mash my cauli with a good dollop of full fat cream cheese etc). If I am busy and I don't get chance to eat a meal or I can't be bothered to cook a meal, it just doesn't bother me. I really enjoy the food I have but it is rare that I actually feel hungry or need 3 meals a day.

I used to eat absolutely masses of carbs (I could easily eat 4 slices of wholemeal toast with a tin of baked beans for lunch and be hungry again 2 hours later. I was always thinking about the next meal or what I could eat in between. I now find it incredibly liberating not to be so driven by food and in some respects I actually enjoy it more now that it is less compelling to eat all the time. I am one of those that couldn't imagine feeling like this but low carb higher fat has given me control over my eating without having to really apply self restraint. Not saying it was easy at first because it wasn't, but once my body adjusted and I got my head around it and I started to experiment with different foods and get comfortable with more fat in my diet (as oppose to feeling guilty 🙄) it just gets easier and easier and I can't tell you how much it has improved my health in all sorts of ways I hadn't imagined. No more migraines, reduced joint pain, better skin, better sleep, don't need my asthma inhaler anymore. Lots of positives. If you don't need to lose weight then you need to up your fat intake.

 

[Suky R]

I think you are perhaps misinterpreting @Drummer's post. The one or two meals a day instead of 3 isn't a suggestion of what people should do or need to aim for, it just happens when you reduce the carbs enough. I don't go full keto, usually about 70-90g carbs a day, but I do eat plenty of fat (real cream in my coffee, cheese nuts, plenty of creamy Greek natural Yoghurt, avocado, plenty of fat or oil in my cooking... so cabbage always gets cooked with a good knob of butter, my broccoli gets a coating of sour cream and chives, I mash my cauli with a good dollop of full fat cream cheese etc). If I am busy and I don't get chance to eat a meal or I can't be bothered to cook a meal, it just doesn't bother me. I really enjoy the food I have but it is rare that I actually feel hungry or need 3 meals a day.

I used to eat absolutely masses of carbs (I could easily eat 4 slices of wholemeal toast with a tin of baked beans for lunch and be hungry again 2 hours later. I was always thinking about the next meal or what I could eat in between. I now find it incredibly liberating not to be so driven by food and in some respects I actually enjoy it more now that it is less compelling to eat all the time. I am one of those that couldn't imagine feeling like this but low carb higher fat has given me control over my eating without having to really apply self restraint. Not saying it was easy at first because it wasn't, but once my body adjusted and I got my head around it and I started to experiment with different foods and get comfortable with more fat in my diet (as oppose to feeling guilty 🙄) it just gets easier and easier and I can't tell you how much it has improved my health in all sorts of ways I hadn't imagined. No more migraines, reduced joint pain, better skin, better sleep, don't need my asthma inhaler anymore. Lots of positives. If you don't need to lose weight then you need to up your fat intake.

Thank you
Well written and explained