Thank you for great ideas
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Carb intake
- Thread starter Suky R
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Hi yes carbs have always been intensely discussed in T2 circles.
Up until recently Diabetes Uk recommended a Low GI, Mediterranean style diet with
45 to 60% of calories from carbs depending on work done and level of physical activity, 20-30% from fats and 10-20% from protein. ( Bearing in mind that there are 9 cals in one gram of fat and 4 cals in one gram of carb and of protein). If that let the T2 hit their targets then all well and good, if not the T2 walked up through the quantity and quality of medication available until good control was achieved.
Recently the dietary agenda at Diabetes UK has been seized by low carb fanatics ( low carbing is more of a cult than a diet) and now a very wooden, one-size-fits-all recommendation of 130 grams of carbs per day is given. The 130 figure is basic since the brain is said to need the amount of glucose a day produced to that provided by 130 grams of carbs. Obviously the easiest way of making sure the brain gets the supply of high octane fuel it needs is by having 130 grams.
The X-Pert Diabetes Type 2 Course ( said to be one of the better training courses available ) defines a Carb Portion for T2s as 15 grams and recommends between 8 and 15 Carb Portions a day depending on work done and level of activity and age etc. The 8 portions of 15 grams would give 120 grams a day and 480 calories. The 15 portions would give 225 grams of carb and 900 calories.
In 2017 the DiRECT study of Roy Taylor went back to a high carb diet (the Newcastle Diet) with a recommended maintenance diet, after losing 15 kg of weight on a crash diet, of 61% of calories coming from carbs.
Traditionally low carbing was frowned on for T2s because a sustainable change of diet and lifestyle was recommended. Plus low carbing was/is associated with problems like cardio disease, kidney problems, thyroid problems and other things like adrenal fatigue. Those problems were what led to the drastic revision of the Atkins Diet in 2012. Prof Christies work at Cardiff University suggested that optimal HbA1c for T2s was between 6.5 and 8.0% ( about 48 to 70 in new money) and that driving down A1cs to low levels was dangerous for T2s because of unintended consequences. Lowest is not best for T2s suggest some researchers with regard to HbA1c.
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This is an interesting read
I personally just find it difficult what research etc is trustworthy
- Relationship to Diabetes
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And we are just coming into squash season! We get all sorts of different ones in our veg box that hardly seem to get a look-in in the supermarkets… onion, acorn, and crown prince (which are so huge, we only get a section at a time!)
Sounds good
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I‘m not sure where you get that impression @Burylancs
Diabetes UK (and this forum) recommend a wide variety of approaches for people to attempt to find a way of eating that suits them and meets their goals of glucose control and/or weight loss.
The suggested meal plans, for example, are far from a one-size-fits-all selection, and you might be pleased to discover, includes a Mediterranean plan as one of 12 options
Meal plans and diabetes
Eating nutritious, healthy and downright delicious food is that bit easier with our meal planners. We've created multiple different weekly meal plans to suit all types and tastes. They're nutritionally balanced, are calorie and carb counted, and can help if you want to lose weight. They also...
If forum members choose to recommend the low carb plan, it is most likely because that is the approach which worked for them.
What style of menu have you found works well for you?
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Drummer
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- Type 2
This low carb fanatic just got a HbA1c level of 43.
My maximum intake of carbs is 40 gm a day.
I eat twice a day, except when I forget and just eat once.
My thyroid medication has been reduced because my thyroid seems to be feeling less dead these days.
My clothes need to be resized or replaced each Autumn as I am gradually shrinking.
Next weekend I will be going to a centre for ancient technology for two days of dancing, music and showing off skills learned from my grandparents, so as for all the 'good advice' on 'healthy living' - pass the salt pot please.
My maximum intake of carbs is 40 gm a day.
I eat twice a day, except when I forget and just eat once.
My thyroid medication has been reduced because my thyroid seems to be feeling less dead these days.
My clothes need to be resized or replaced each Autumn as I am gradually shrinking.
Next weekend I will be going to a centre for ancient technology for two days of dancing, music and showing off skills learned from my grandparents, so as for all the 'good advice' on 'healthy living' - pass the salt pot please.
I understand where your coming from its been 3 months since I was diagnosed with type 2 and i'm still finding it hard to find what I can eat.I've swept cheese for cottages cheese,pre packed meat for salmon,I have brown bread with no added Sutter twice a week rest of the time I have rivets I have 0% yogurt.my evening meal is 3 new potatoes meat veg.I don't eat chips,crisps,chocolate.its so hard you go on line and one site contradicts the other.
Leadinglights
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You do read lots of different things on line but that is because everyone is different in how their body tolerates carbohydrates and what medication they may be taking. There are many 'crackpot' ideas and the difficultly is to decide what will suit you which is why many find that testing their blood glucose with a home testing monitor is helpful in identifying foods and meals which are not tolerated well in that they cause a big increase in blood glucose but also allows people to find food which they can eat safely. Establishing a testing regime if before you eat and after 2 hours where an increase of no more than 2-3mmol/l or no more than 8-8.5mmol/l would indicate your meal was OK.
I found following the principals in this link worked for me and as it was designed by a forward looking GP practice, I felt was reliable and made complete sense. https://lowcarbfreshwell.com/
Unless you have a medical need for low fat then there is no need to cut fats and by adding healthy fats to your diet it will enhance your enjoyment and help you to not feel hungry.
Basing meals on meat, fish, eggs, cheese, dairy and vegetables and salads and fruit like berries still give plenty options for tasty meals.
harbottle
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@Burylancs's point is that the actual target hba1c for people with T2 isn't necessarily non-diabetic levels, but can be up to 70, and this depends on other factors such as risk of complications, age, medication, and overall health.
So why bother diagnosing Type 2's as being diabetic if their HbA1C is less than 70? Even diabetes UK says that an ideal HbA1C for diabetics is 47 and that a 'normal' level starts at the upper bound of 41. So at a level of 42 or above you have an extra risk of diabetes complications.
In fact I know of 2 forum members (red forum) who experienced diabetic symptoms at HbA1C levels of 41 to 43 and where fobbed off by their GP's because their HbA1C was under 48!
The only reason that the 'target' is so high is that it was set before Type 2 remission was accepted as real!
But it's up to the individual (and their GP) which level to aim for, and if they accept the additional risks of blindness, amputation etc - then fair enough!
Morning
You are so right that's where I get confused with so much information out there
I'm glad you shared this I feel exactly as you say
I have cut out chocolate, biscuits, crisps was my downfall I treat me self once a week or every other week
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UKPDS was a big trial/study that looked at the association of T2 diabetes complications with glucose management, and both it and DCCT (T1) have shown increased risk with higher HbA1c.
But it’s important to remember the ‘curve’ is roughly J shaped, and that the reduction in risk at lower levels, while evident, is nothing like as significant as it is higher up the scale. There’s a sort of ‘diminishing returns’ at the bottom of the graph.
Plus, in people without diabetes, average glucose levels and HbA1c generally rise slightly in older years.
This is particularly worth remembering where medication is being taken that carries a risk of hypoglycaemia - because sometimes aiming for the lowest HbA1c possible isn’t always the lowest risk choice. Particularly in older people where hypos may increase the risk of falls, or cardiac arrythmia etc.
I am not sure if it has been officially studied, but I half suspect that the same may be true for dietary interventions too? That a more extreme menu change (eg aiming for zero carbs and thereby avoiding all vegetables in order to aim for the lowest possible A1c) quite possibly carries more risk than a more moderate menu-change and an HbA1c in the higher 40s?
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Interesting read
Proud to be erratic
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I love Brazil nuts, alas like so many other foods an excess of something is invariably far from good for you. 7 Brazil nuts, unless very small ones, will be detrimental to most people's health. Brazil nuts contain selenium which accumulates in your body and selenosis from an excess of selenium has a lot of unpleasant side effects.
Various Google sites can tell you more about this. There seems to be a fairly consistent view that 5 Brazil nuts is an upper limit, certainly if being eaten every day. A fortnight ago my Endo most pleasantly but robustly said no more than 3 Brazil nuts per day, for anyone.
Thank you
trophywench
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Brazil nuts must mean Christmas since one simply could not purchase nuts at any other time of year - same as oranges, only available in the winter. Went to Portugal in our motorhome for a few months over Xmas and New Year once, itinerant salesmen at points either side of the main road from Mway into Albufeira - 1 Euro per 2kg net bag, get it back to the campsite, hang bag on lower branch of nearest tree and consume at own leisure. As my dad was the only person in the house with enough hand strength to successfully crack a brazilnut shell, so an occasional treat for the other 3 of us. Mom's Xmas box of Black Magic always had a choc covered one but big sis and I knew she liked em, so avoided them when younger, though once she had false teeth both top and bottom, we could choose one if we wanted! Hence I never consider nuts of any sort as 'proper food' if you see what I mean. OTOH a vegetarian lady in a book club I used to belong to invited us lot to a meal she wanted to cook for us and knowing none of the rest of us were veggie asked what we'd like to eat and one of the others said she'd personally be quite happy with whatever Judith felt she'd like to serve us - knowing that she was pretty healthy on it, which the rest of us were more than happy to go along with, thanks. The most delicious stuffed marrow, half a side apiece - and she told us the filling was basically exactly the same as she'd lob in a loaf tin, cook and serve as a nut roast. Never got the recipe since even then - been donkey's years since I'd even seen a marrow for sale in a greengrocer's, now, can say the same about any such a shop.
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