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Carb counting - what did I do wrong?

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Some soups have a high sugar content - I'd check the labels 🙂
Thanks @Northerner I will make sure to double check!

Just to offer a slightly different point of view to DeusXM's - for the entire time I have been diagnosed I have been eating meals not dissimilar to the ones you describe (pizza, pasta, rice totalling approx 60-70 grams of carbs) and have managed to keep my BG relatively well behaved (largely by a process of trial and error in the early days, but more recenty better results with insulin:carb ratios and factors).

So it IS possible to eat as you are and work out the doses/timings/splits that your body individually needs to get decent BG results.

What you will have already gathered though, is that some meals carry additional difficulty. So you *may* not be able to use the same approach for everything.

Right now you are trying to work out your basic system for most foods and Deus (and others) are suggesting that this is easiest done by avoiding the notoriously tricky things and trying to get yourself more on an even keel by eating fairly boring, predictable things to begin with.

So I would suggest working on your breakfast and lunch as 'Project 1', and your evening meals as 'Project 2'. Use the same approaches for both to start with, but keep careful notes of what happens after evening meals by type - with pizza this happened... with pasta that happened... rice seemed OK... And then tailor your approach to different evening meals based on previous results. If breakfast and lunch are in your complete control you could choose to really reduce the variables for those meals by eating exactly the same thing for a month. There are enough other differences day-to-day without having constantly different meals when you are trying to work things out to begin with. You may not be able to face that idea though!

If you have a smartphone you might find a diabetes BG/food tracking app useful for this. Particularly one like mySugr whivh allows you to make notes and search for results by keyword.

You won't get it all 'fixed' immediately (or ever!) but things WILL get better and you WILL be able to crack it. It just takes a bit of stickability and graft.

Thank you @everydayupsanddowns it is reassuring to hear that it can be done (eventually). I'm not afraid to do the work it needs 🙂 Splitting into two seperate 'projects' makes a lot of sense. I can deal with eating the same things every day that wouldn't be an issue (I'm more of an eat-coz-I-have-to than a foodie lol). I am making a ton of notes on everything I'm doing, it's going to be one beast of a spreadsheet I can already see! If I do the 'same food every day' plan, I just need to figure out what I'm going to eat for the indefinite future!
 
Ok, so I had pea and ham soup for lunch, and used the 1.2:10 ratio. Sugar prior to lunch was 9.2, 2 hours after it is 11.3. This is the smallest increase post eating so far 🙂
 
Ok, so I had pea and ham soup for lunch, and used the 1.2:10 ratio. Sugar prior to lunch was 9.2, 2 hours after it is 11.3. This is the smallest increase post eating so far 🙂
Things are looking up! 🙂 You've got me fancying some pea and ham soup now! 😱
 
Things are looking up! 🙂 You've got me fancying some pea and ham soup now! 😱
Phew! haha. How precise does this need to be? I.e should I go up in terms of ratio and try 1.4:10 next as I saw a slight increase?

Looks like I will be having pea and ham soup for lunch for the foreseeable future lol...hopefully I can stomach it every day!
 
I think it's important to look at differences as much as it is the numbers themselves.

You started at 9.2 and rose to 11.3.

Now 11.3 may not be ideal in the long term - it's a little higher than 'perfection', but the rise was only 2.1mmol/L.

A point rise for a meal is brilliant! If you'd started at 5.x you'd have only got up to 7.x before gently pottering down again.

Did you correct at the same time? If so after 4-5 hours you'd ideally want to be somewhere around the 6s. If not you'd want to be around 9 (because the dose would have dealt perfectly with the carbs by the time it stopped working).

Well done - this is great progress!
 
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I think it's important to look at differences as much as it is the numbers themselves.

You started at 9.2 and rose to 11.3.

Now 11.3 may not be ideal in the long term - it's a little higher than 'perfection', but the rise was only 2.1mmol/L.

A point rise for a meal is brilliant! If you'd started at 5.x you'd have only got up to 7.x before gently pottering down again.

Did you correct at the same time? If so after 4-5 hours you'd ideally want to be somewhere around the 6s. If not you'd want to be around 9 (because the dose would have dealt perfectly with the carbs by the time it stopped working).

Well done - this is great progress!

No I didn't do any corrective dose at all, I'm trying to avoid doing them so there's no confusion about whether it's the correction or the ratio that's had the impact. I'm not 100% sure on my correction ratio either so don't want to guess blindly at that and mess up working out the insulin:carb ratio 🙂

I will do another blood test when I get home tonight, that should be around the 5 hour mark. Or maybe one on the train but I tend to fall asleep as soon as I sit down on the train these days lol!
 
Just got home and done a test, to my surprise I'm 3.5! Not sure why, and hadn't noticed any symptoms which is very strange for me. Now I know I'm low I've started feeling a tiny bit shaky and maybe a tad grumpy, but that's really odd for me to not be aware of a hypo! I better not be getting sick!
 
Did you have far to walk to/from the train station - that often needs allowing for when I take the train.
 
Did you have far to walk to/from the train station - that often needs allowing for when I take the train.
10-15 min walk so nothing horrendous! And I do it every day with no problems. Weird!
 
Well done Sprogladite on an improvement in dealing with the carbs.

Once you get your levels more in range you may find that you will need to take account of things like a 15 minute walk. I need a reduction or jelly baby for that. As You are finding there are so many factors to take account of, just keep at it one step at a time, and keep those notes.
I am nine years and have just gone back to a weekly log. Mine includes carbs, BG insulin (basal rate profile as I am on a pump) and any pots about weird foods or activity. I then take time on a Sunday (during The Archers) to review results, celebrate successes and see if I need to make any changes. I stopped for a while but found that things became more chaotic, so have returned to record keeping. It certainly helped me from the early days to sort out ratios.
 
Well done Sprogladite on an improvement in dealing with the carbs.

Once you get your levels more in range you may find that you will need to take account of things like a 15 minute walk. I need a reduction or jelly baby for that. As You are finding there are so many factors to take account of, just keep at it one step at a time, and keep those notes.
I am nine years and have just gone back to a weekly log. Mine includes carbs, BG insulin (basal rate profile as I am on a pump) and any pots about weird foods or activity. I then take time on a Sunday (during The Archers) to review results, celebrate successes and see if I need to make any changes. I stopped for a while but found that things became more chaotic, so have returned to record keeping. It certainly helped me from the early days to sort out ratios.
Thank you! It's funny, before I wouldn't have even thought about a 15 min walk but I will keep an eye on it going forward. Yes I have a feeling the notes are going to be invaluable in the days to come! 🙂
 
Great work Sprogladite! This is starting to look really good (aside from that sneaky hypo). I understand the issues you're having with your folks, my Mum lives with me and sometimes it's a bit like being ported back to 1982, I have to explain with gritted teeth that I'm not a toddler 😉. I imagine it's doubly difficult for you because they will think they know how to handle diabetes because they got you through it as a kid, for them to acknowledge a change now would be difficult for them because it implies they might not have done the best for you as a child and all parents want to do the best for their kids however badly that might be expressed.

Having an untested basal requirement will make it more tricky for you, but we can't always do things exactly the way we'd want to. My basal requirement was a point of contention for 18 months after diagnosis (still is sort of) and I managed to find the right ratios, so whilst it's not ideal it can be done. You just need to keep in mind that your basal could be off, write everything down and remember that you might have to tweak ratios when you change your basal. Don't get me wrong in a perfect world basal first every time, but sometimes we just have to work with what we have. We'll all have different opinions here because we all have different experiences, so keeping that in mind, I didn't go lower carb whilst testing my ratios, I went simple but higher carb than my normal diet, simple and normal carb levels, and then carb and fat combos. I covered the full range of options because I eat very healthily 90% of the time (I even shock myself sometimes at my desire to eat raw veg!) but then there's the 10% when I don't, I eat the full range of foods, so I wanted to be able to cope with them all, up to and including the slice of Christmas cake I'll inevitably eat, the gingerbread latte I'll want to drink at some point, the whole lot. I'm not daft, I'm not going to eat cake for lunch every day, or drink 4 gingerbread lattes a day or a week or even a month. I just wanted to know that I knew how to handle those things. For me that was a process, so test phase 1 was simple, straightforward meals, when I'd got that down, I moved to phase 2 with higher carb items and some tinkering with ratios, timings etc, then phase 3 also known as the cake phase where I experimented with more volatile carb and fat combos. The only food item that defeated me, and continues to challenge me is hummus of all things, and it's not even high carb! The little terror refuses to be controlled, but I am steely and determined, and if I live till I'm 80 I'll still be trying 😉

I'm rambling now, just wanted to say well done :D so far, and don't forget to wash and press that lab coat!
 
Thank you @KookyCat! I will be doing the basal test tomorrow night - don't feel ill at all today so must have been the walk that caused the hypo last night. When doing the basal test, does it matter what level your sugars are at in the beginning? Or is it purely the difference in numbers between tests that matter?

EDIT: Nevermind, just read the info previously provided and have found the answer! Lol 🙂
 
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I had pea and ham soup again for lunch today. However, my sugar was 4.1 and I was feeling very shaky and like I was already hypo-ing, so decided to take action on that at the same time as having lunch. Therefore, I did 2 units for the soup (18g carbs) and 2 units for an aero mousse chocolate bar (56g), which I know aren't the best for hypos but they're my favourite lol. I figured that by under dosing for the chocolate bar I'd come back up to a reasonable level - 2 hours later I am 8.1 🙂
 
Looks like this carb counting is really coming together and clicking into place well done 🙂 sorry to hear you felt a bit off, I had a 4 2 hours after eating the other day and felt a little funny afterwards but didn't treat as I was having lunch an hour later, when I tested again for lunch I was 4.6 although the guys on here tell me I would have been better if I'd popped a jelly baby or a biscuit at 4.0 - lesson learned for next time but no harm done 🙂, just remember and be careful on your walk again haha, what's for tea tonight then 🙂 x
 
Something a bit easier hopefully! Lol. Looks like it is going to be sausages, roast potatoes and/or peas and carrots and green beans. I sat down with the parents last night and showed them this thread, and then went on to really exaggerate about retinopathy causing internal bleeding in the eyes...the scare tactics seem to have paid off lol. I have got a bag of jelly babies for the walk tonight so we shall see how that one goes! Lol 🙂
 
Something a bit easier hopefully! Lol. Looks like it is going to be sausages, roast potatoes and/or peas and carrots and green beans. I sat down with the parents last night and showed them this thread, and then went on to really exaggerate about retinopathy causing internal bleeding in the eyes...the scare tactics seem to have paid off lol. I have got a bag of jelly babies for the walk tonight so we shall see how that one goes! Lol 🙂
I'm having sausages too 🙂, I'm sorry that it had to come to the scare tactics but at least something has made them realise I'm so happy for you right now, talking about jelly babies I have a pack in the house incase of a hypo but on Tuesday someone on the bus was eating one and it smelt far too sweet so hope I don't run into problems there haha, good luck with your big shop at the weekend, I hope you find plenty tasty things 🙂 and keep up with the great work 🙂 x
 
I'm having sausages too 🙂, I'm sorry that it had to come to the scare tactics but at least something has made them realise I'm so happy for you right now, talking about jelly babies I have a pack in the house incase of a hypo but on Tuesday someone on the bus was eating one and it smelt far too sweet so hope I don't run into problems there haha, good luck with your big shop at the weekend, I hope you find plenty tasty things 🙂 and keep up with the great work 🙂 x
Thank you so much, I really appreciate the kind words and support! I honestly think coming to this forum might be one of the best things I've ever done 🙂 haha hopefully no problems will occur, sometimes temptation is the hardest part of diabetes! My office are awful, we have had sweets in the office every day except today (because I threw a tantrum about it lol) - when I say sweets, things like Krispy Kremes, 4 different kinds of chocolate biscuits, chocolate brownies, the list goes on. Very pleased with myself that I managed to hold out and refrain from eating any, I'm not usually so disciplined! Just so determined to get this sorted out once and for all! 🙂
 
Just done the 4 hour test and BG is 6.9 🙂
 
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