Camping and hillwalking

[Petra V]

Hello,

I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes ten days ago and would appreciate some advice. As I'm determined not to let the diagnoses hinder me from doing what I love, I'm hoping to go hillwalking and camping in the next few weeks. Thus far my walks have been a few hours only and in between mealtimes, though I do have a portion of nuts and an apple which see me through my walks. My bloodsugar levels have dropped to between 6 and 9 (which is really good, giving I was 22 ten days ago), Metformin and Gliclazide seem to be working, and I have much more energy. My only problem is that I struggle to eat recommended portions as I feel unwell. I've gone down to eating regularly, but small portions (of healthy snacks, including 'dry' oatcakes).

I am determined to make things work with hillwalking and camping, but would like some advice on healthy snacks that one can eat whilst on a longer walk (and covers lunchtime) and what can be eaten when you're in a (small) tent without a lot of cooking gear. Thus far I've stayed away from bread, but would it be okay to have a meal deal (sandwich, healthy snack, diet drink)? For anyone who has been hillwalking - does your body react differently when you go for a longer walk?

And how does one keep oneself safe? I am very comfortable in being out in the hills and camping on my own, but the diabetes diagnosis has affected my confidence as I feel more vulnerable. I suppose it is about knowing your own body and the signals for when you need to eat. I'm trying at the moment to eat before I reach the point of feeling unwell. Has anyone got any advice on other things one can do to manage the diabetes properly so there are no emergencies. As a first step I'm planning a longer walk on a well-beaten track in the next few days, but I'd welcome any other staying-safe suggestions. Thanks.

Petra

Thanks!

 

[Inka]

What do you mean by saying that you feel unwell @Petra V ? Why are you struggling to eat?

 

[Ditto]

On your own though? That makes me feel frightened, especially in this day and age. I always think the worst like those two poor ladies hiking the Appalachian, found with their throats cut! I have nightmares about it. You'd think two of them would have been able to fend a fella off! It's bound to have been a fella. Ladies are civilised... for the most part. Plus don't eat when you're walking you could choke! You have to concentrate on eating. I can hear my mother God rest her soul telling me off for looking on the dark side. I can't help it.

 

[Petra V]

On your own though? That makes me feel frightened, especially in this day and age. I always think the worst like those two poor ladies hiking the Appalachian, found with their throats cut! I have nightmares about it. You'd think two of them would have been able to fend a fella off! It's bound to have been a fella. Ladies are civilised... for the most part. Plus don't eat when you're walking you could choke! You have to concentrate on eating. I can hear my mother God rest her soul telling me off for looking on the dark side. I can't help it.

Yes, I am very comfortable out in the hills on my own and know a lot of women who are. I work outdoors and mostly on my own. The biggest risk for me is not who I might meet (there are far more women harmed by their partners and sons than by strangers outdoors), but how I keep myself safe and that is why I have posed questions about diet and management of diabetes overall when outdoors.

 

[Inka]

Yes, I am very comfortable out in the hills on my own and know a lot of women who are. I work outdoors and mostly on my own. The biggest risk for me is not who I might meet (there are far more women harmed by their partners and sons than by strangers outdoors), but how I keep myself safe and that is why I have posed questions about diet and management of diabetes overall when outdoors.

Then perhaps you missed my question about you feeling ill @Petra V ? And struggling to eat? It’s that that sounds like a concern, but it’s hard to comment without you explaining a little more about that.

 

[Petra V]

Then perhaps you missed my question about you feeling ill @Petra V ? And struggling to eat? It’s that that sounds like a concern, but it’s hard to comment without you explaining a little more about that.

Hello Inka, my apologies, I had indeed missed your question. My answer was to Ditto. At the moment, when I eat to much (like a recommended amount of porridge or a portion of mushroom soup with beans), I start to 'turn into myself' (less clear in my mind), tremble, sweat (despite walking through the house after eating), and I felt it was because I ate too much 'heavy' food (carbohydrates). I had that twice yesterday and then had a very light supper with mainly vegetables and felt stable afterwards and managed to go for an evening walk. Maybe not being able to eat properly is indeed a concern and I may need to wait a little until things stabilise before being more adventurous. Thank you for prompting me to think about that.

 

[Proud to be erratic]

This is tricky to offer a reply to. I drafted this before seeing your latest reply, @Petra V.

Firstly what was your HbA1c from your diagnosis some 10 days ago? Ie how far above the threshold of 48mmol/mol are you? With your GP prescribing both metformin and gliclazide suggests you are markedly above 48mmol/mol. If you were in the 50s or even 60s another GP might offer you the first response of trying adjustments to diet and lifestyle for 3 months.

Also your 2nd post telling us that you routinely work outdoors could imply you are already fit and active; so camping and hillwalking might, or might not, greatly alter your daily exercise routine.

Thirdly you have given us some indication of the dietary changes you've made so far. Incidentally, nothing wrong with a dry oatcake, if by that you mean something like a Nairns oat biscuits at c. 6gms carbs each; and the various flavoured choices of Nairns oat biscuits, also c. 6-7 gms each are fine as well. I love this snack as my treat for fending off a low (but I'm very insulin dependent so must monitor closely and respond accordingly). But managing T2 is generally about managing your carb intake, usually with changes to lower carb choices and/or reduced portion sizes. How much change is a feature of how high your HbA1c is IN CONJUNCTION with increased exercise and activity - which for most people improves their body's natural insulin resistance and helps the insulin you naturally make to work more effectively.

So a walking and camping trip is not only an excellent fun holiday, but an ideal T2 treatment plan.

But finally, how secure is your T2 diagnosis? From time to time we encounter older forum members who start off with a T2 diagnosis that turns out to be T1 - usually because some GPs have an outdated mindset that T1 is only found in children. So their default diagnosis is, mistakenly, T2. That said, being in the possible early stages of T1 would not prohibit a walking and camping trip; it could keep an elevated BG suppressed, but would be masking longer term BG trends. In reading my observations please be aware I am not medically qualified.

I share @Inka's caution and would invariably defer to her much wider knowledge about managing one's D. Could you compromise and make your holiday a simple expansion of daily walking for a week, without the camping and medical difficulties of isolation? Knowing your current HbA1c that triggered your diagnosis is pretty fundamental, to my mind.

 

[Petra V]

This is tricky to offer a reply to. I drafted this before seeing your latest reply, @Petra V.

Firstly what was your HbA1c from your diagnosis some 10 days ago? Ie how far above the threshold of 48mmol/mol are you? With your GP prescribing both metformin and gliclazide suggests you are markedly above 48mmol/mol. If you were in the 50s or even 60s another GP might offer you the first response of trying adjustments to diet and lifestyle for 3 months.

Also your 2nd post telling us that you routinely work outdoors could imply you are already fit and active; so camping and hillwalking might, or might not, greatly alter your daily exercise routine.

Thirdly you have given us some indication of the dietary changes you've made so far. Incidentally, nothing wrong with a dry oatcake, if by that you mean something like a Nairns oat biscuits at c. 6gms carbs each; and the various flavoured choices of Nairns oat biscuits, also c. 6-7 gms each are fine as well. I love this snack as my treat for fending off a low (but I'm very insulin dependent so must monitor closely and respond accordingly). But managing T2 is generally about managing your carb intake, usually with changes to lower carb choices and/or reduced portion sizes. How much change is a feature of how high your HbA1c is IN CONJUNCTION with increased exercise and activity - which for most people improves their body's natural insulin resistance and helps the insulin you naturally make to work more effectively.

So a walking and camping trip is not only an excellent fun holiday, but an ideal T2 treatment plan.

But finally, how secure is your T2 diagnosis? From time to time we encounter older forum members who start off with a T2 diagnosis that turns out to be T1 - usually because some GPs have an outdated mindset that T1 is only found in children. So their default diagnosis is, mistakenly, T2. That said, being in the possible early stages of T1 would not prohibit a walking and camping trip; it could keep an elevated BG suppressed, but would be masking longer term BG trends. In reading my observations please be aware I am not medically qualified.

I share @Inka's caution and would invariably defer to her much wider knowledge about managing one's D. Could you compromise and make your holiday a simple expansion of daily walking for a week, without the camping and medical difficulties of isolation? Knowing your current HbA1c that triggered your diagnosis is pretty fundamental, to my mind.

Thank you for your reply. My GP is indeed wanting to rule out Type 1 Diabetes and I need more blood tests next week. MY HbA1C was around 150, far too high. Maybe you're right in taking it a bit slower for the time being and just expand my daily walks until things settle down, so it is easier to regulate the diet part of things (as I can prepare food at home). The oatcakes are indeed of the savoury type. Lots of food for thought, thank you.

 

[Proud to be erratic]

Thank you for your reply. My GP is indeed wanting to rule out Type 1 Diabetes and I need more blood tests next week. MY HbA1C was around 150, far too high. Maybe you're right in taking it a bit slower for the time being and just expand my daily walks until things settle down, so it is easier to regulate the diet part of things (as I can prepare food at home). The oatcakes are indeed of the savoury type. Lots of food for thought, thank you.

Much clearer position, thank you. Has the risk of DKA been mentioned by your GP, with such a high HbA1c? Do you know if you've had a previous HbA1c in the last couple of years and thus how quickly your elevated BG has been building up?

Also the general wisdom from members here is don't try and bring your BG down rapidly. Your body will have spent months or years in the lead up to your present level and rapid changes are far from good for the fine blood vessels and nerve endings. Your eyesight and vision will almost certainly have been affected by the change in salinity, so don't rush to an optician for spectacles. Reducing your BG will alter your vision. Steady, but slow adjustments to diet and lifestyle will be the key for T2 - changes that can become your new permanent way of living. So not a punishment regime but enjoyable and enduring.

If T1 does become the diagnosis, that does result in a different treatment path, with insulin being the backbone of that treatment. Insulin could become an interim treatment for your T2. For T1 you would aim to eat normally and take insulin doses sized to meet your body's needs; for T2 it might be a mix of reduced carb intake and extraneous insulin to assist your natural homegrown insulin.

Finally, do keep posting. Let us know how matters are progressing. Vent some angst if it helps, take part in our wider chat if you want and seek answers if needed. There is centuries of D experience amidst the members here and, in my experience, a gentle but well informed community who don't judge, who "understand" how confusing and initially alarming a diagnosis of D is and who take any question in their stride. No question is stupid; we've all been new to this once.

PS: an HbA1c is a significant WOW! Good that it's been latched onto now and yes, taking things carefully for now would be best. Daily long, gentle, walks could be excellent for you at present. Out of pure curiosity how is your blood pressure? Good luck.

 

[Inka]

Hello Inka, my apologies, I had indeed missed your question. My answer was to Ditto. At the moment, when I eat to much (like a recommended amount of porridge or a portion of mushroom soup with beans), I start to 'turn into myself' (less clear in my mind), tremble, sweat (despite walking through the house after eating), and I felt it was because I ate too much 'heavy' food (carbohydrates). I had that twice yesterday and then had a very light supper with mainly vegetables and felt stable afterwards and managed to go for an evening walk. Maybe not being able to eat properly is indeed a concern and I may need to wait a little until things stabilise before being more adventurous. Thank you for prompting me to think about that.

Do you test your blood sugar when you get these symptoms? If not, you very much should. Those symptoms could be those of high sugar, low sugar or what’s called a false hypo @Petra V They could also be unrelated to your blood sugar. It’s important to try to work out what they are.

So, to answer your questions about overnight camping and hiking - no, I don’t think you should go until a) you’ve worked out what’s causing those feelings; and b) you’re able to eat properly.

 

[JITR]

Clearly you need to determine whether you are Type 1 or Type 2, and establish a suitable dietary regime for yourself before venturing out into the wild for days.

Other than that I'd refer you back to my previous thread:
Your medication has started to bring your blood glucose down, and now a healthy diet and exercise is the name of the game for the future. If you haven't seen it, I think the Freshwell Meal Planner and Foodlists graphic is a helpful checklist.

... now I've had a good look at the Freshwell app I'd suggest you download it to your smartphone.

As well as other members' suggestions, the Freshwell food lists and recipes and your own experience should give you a good idea of what to take to eat on an overnight hike. You might also consider the soups and shake packets used in the NHS Path to Remission programmes together with similar items including protein bars from Fast 800 (my wife swears by them) and other reputable suppliers.

 

[Leadinglights]

Are your feelings of being unwell happening since your diagnosis and starting the medication as if you have also changed your diet in reducing your carb intake as well then that sudden drop in blood glucose can make people feel a bit wobbly.
Also metformin can cause a bit of stomach upheaval until your body gets used to it.
It is good they are going the extra tests as from what you say you don't quite fit the typical Type 2 profile not that there is in reality one.

 

[Lucyr]

I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes ten days ago and would appreciate some advice. As I'm determined not to let the diagnoses hinder me from doing what I love, I'm hoping to go hillwalking and camping in the next few weeks. Thus far my walks have been a few hours only and in between mealtimes, though I do have a portion of nuts and an apple which see me through my walks. My bloodsugar levels have dropped to between 6 and 9

I can’t imagine what could possibly be unsafe about going camping or walking. Just go, pack a snack in case you drop very low, people with all types of diabetes go camping all the time.

There’s no need to be snacking just to keep your bg above 6 either, it’s fine to drop down to normal levels.

 

[rebrascora]

I can’t imagine what could possibly be unsafe about going camping or walking. Just go, pack a snack in case you drop very low, people with all types of diabetes go camping all the time.

There’s no need to be snacking just to keep your bg above 6 either, it’s fine to drop down to normal levels.

With an HbA1c of 150 mmols/mol 10 days ago and unsure if possibly Type 1 or Type 2 and feeling unwell regularly then I personally would suggest that hiking and camping on your own is dangerous in case DKA happens.

There are people here who were sent straight to hospital with lower HbA1c's than that! I appreciate the OP's levels have reduced since then but they are having spells of feeling unwell and those lower levels may be a temporary reprieve due to reducing carbs, but beta cells may be declining or there maybe other issues for these feeling of being unwell like pancreatic illness which might be causing the diabetes rather than everyday Type 2.

I am a very independent woman and live alone and work outdoors on my own quite a lot and live alone but my advice would be to wait until your diabetes diagnosis has become more clear and your levels are stable and well managed and you are not having these episodes of feeling unwell. Clearly something more than straightforward Type 2 may be happening here and the symptoms being experienced are not straightforward Type 2 symptoms. I think it would be less of an issue if you were going in a group but if you suddenly took seriously ill on your own out of the fells or wherever on your own, you could put yourself or even others at risk trying to rescue you.

 

[Lucyr]

With an HbA1c of 150 mmols/mol 10 days ago and unsure if possibly Type 1 or Type 2 and feeling unwell regularly then I personally would suggest that hiking and camping on your own is dangerous in case DKA happens.

Given metformin and gliclazide has got bgs down to 6-9, and OP is regularly monitoring blood sugars, they’re not going to just randomly get DKA in their tent. If bgs go high they can abort mission and head home or call for help.

 

[rebrascora]

@Lucyr The OP is also having regular spells of feeling unwell (twice in a day reported) which might suddenly escalate and mean they can't seek help and those spells of illness could also cause BG levels to spiral upwards quite rapidly too I personally don't think it is wise to advise someone who is newly diagnosed with an HbA1c in the critically dangerous range and getting regular spells of feeling unwell and new to taking insulin meds which can cause hypos, to go camping and hiking alone. In fact I think it is irresponsible.

I am not sure if you are suggesting she must be Type 2 because her levels have come down but I got my levels down below 10 by going low carb whilst on Metformin and Gliclazide in a few weeks but that didn't prove I was Type 2 and the medication had little to do with my levels dropping and everything to do with reducing my carb intake right down.

 

[Lucyr]

I personally don't think it is wise to advise someone who is newly diagnosed with an HbA1c in the critically dangerous range and getting regular spells of feeling unwell and new to taking insulin meds which can cause hypos, to go camping and hiking alone. In fact I think it is irresponsible.

They aren’t taking insulin, they’ve got a meter and a phone. Diabetes shouldn’t stop you doing anything. If they want to go camping they should. They’re an adult and can decide for themselves if they feel well enough to go. They’re being sensible and planning a walk on a well used trail and taking snacks with them. There’s no need for you to scare people off doing what they love.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Welcome to the forum @Petra V

Sorry to hear about your diagnosis, but brilliant that you are keen to get back into the things you love, including hillwalking and camping adventures.

It’s worth bearing in mind that no one here has any medical training, we are only sharing our own thoughts, reflections, and experiences.

As an insulin user (which like Gliclazide, actively reduces BG levels), I would prepare for a more substantial walk/hike by reducing my medication. And also taking plenty of rapid acting carbohydrates and follow-up starchy carbs.

Perhaps it would be worth having a char with your GP or nurse to ask what you should do to re-balance your meds if you know you are going to be more active for a defined period of time?