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Bovaer to be added to cattle feed

Bruce Stephens said:
Your view of what "safe" means seems rather unrealistic. Surely by any reasonable analysis they're incredibly safe? Not perfectly safe, but nothing that actually does something is.
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All I am suggesting is a definition of "safe". Informed consent relies on being informed. Do you not agree that this is perfectly reasonable?

MHRA defines safe as "the benefits outweigh the risks". This does not mean that a product is necessarily safe by any stretch of the imagination. It is purely contextual, eg cancer treatments are inherently (not safe) dangerous but compared to not receiving treatment are considered "safe" in terms of "the benefits outweighing the risks".

Perhaps then, this is what we should be told instead of using the word "safe"?

My point has nothing to do with conspiracy, lizard people or the dark underworld.
 
Amity Island said:
All I am suggesting is a definition of "safe". Informed consent relies on being informed. Do you not agree that this is perfectly reasonable?

MHRA defines safe as "the benefits outweigh the risks". This does not mean that a product is necessarily safe by any stretch of the imagination. It is purely contextual, eg cancer treatments are inherently (not safe) dangerous but compared to not receiving treatment are considered "safe" in terms of "the benefits outweighing the risks".

Perhaps then, this is what we should be told instead of using the word "safe"?

My point has nothing to do with conspiracy, lizard people or the dark underworld.
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How about the 'light' underworld, though? :confused:
 
As somebody who spent much of their life in an industry where safety was at the forefront of almost all decision making, I find the conversations in threads of this sort rather like listening in on a pub conversation about diabetes.

Best to keep out of it.
 
Docb said:
As somebody who spent much of their life in an industry where safety was at the forefront of almost all decision making, I find the conversations in threads of this sort rather like listening in on a pub conversation about diabetes.

Best to keep out of it.
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AI is getting so good at stuff. I’m not even sure I’m interacting with real people online, half the time.
 
Docb said:
Best to keep out of it.
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And yet you didn't 😉

Besides, if you have a lot of experience in this area, why not share some of it? Thus far, the info @Inka has shared suggests that, not unlike most chemical usage, the given dosage is not only many times lower than toxic levels (to humans, not rodents) but many times less than the (presumably cautious) FDA safety recommendations.

Is there anything in that article that strikes you as a red flag?
 
@beating_my_betes - You mistakenly imply I have experience in animal feed science. I don't and so cannot make any comment of value to the subject of the thread. In order to do so, I would have to get some overall understanding of the subject, the pros and cons of the issue and the motivations of those making all the noise. I don't have the time, or inclination, to do that.

To be clear, my experience in working in a safety critical industry taught me to leave people who know nothing about a subject other than what they have read in the media to get on with their discussions in their own private world knowing it might give them a reason for living but will never affect anything. As I say, just like listening in to a pub conversation about diabetes.

There, I have shared my experience.
 
From what I can gather Bovaer is only being given to cows that are permanently kept inside and so not grass fed .
Carol
 
Docb said:
@beating_my_betes - You mistakenly imply I have experience in animal feed science. I don't and so cannot make any comment of value to the subject of the thread. In order to do so, I would have to get some overall understanding of the subject, the pros and cons of the issue and the motivations of those making all the noise. I don't have the time, or inclination, to do that.

To be clear, my experience in working in a safety critical industry taught me to leave people who know nothing about a subject other than what they have read in the media to get on with their discussions in their own private world knowing it might give them a reason for living but will never affect anything. As I say, just like listening in to a pub conversation about diabetes.

There, I have shared my experience.
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I didn't think for a second you had experience with animal feed science, nor did i imply that was the case.

What I did think was that you were just commenting on your supposed experience by way of a 'flex', and that if I invited you to actually engage seriously in the conversation (and despite early bumps there is a serious conversation to be had), that you would demonstrate you had no interest in anything other than jeering and thumbing your nose at the rest of us.
 
Docb said:
@beating_my_betes - You mistakenly imply I have experience in animal feed science. I don't and so cannot make any comment of value to the subject of the thread. In order to do so, I would have to get some overall understanding of the subject, the pros and cons of the issue and the motivations of those making all the noise. I don't have the time, or inclination, to do that.

To be clear, my experience in working in a safety critical industry taught me to leave people who know nothing about a subject other than what they have read in the media to get on with their discussions in their own private world knowing it might give them a reason for living but will never affect anything. As I say, just like listening in to a pub conversation about diabetes.

There, I have shared my experience.
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Afternoon DocB.Must admit am in total support of your position and stance in this matter.
There are a few areas where we may as individuals have a definite insight, experience or actual information about specific subject matters that others may want to discuss more widely.
Personally I am more than happy to discuss these subjects where there is an informed and balanced audience such as diabetes topics on this forum.However, I think it is often a wiser move to avoid discussions on a number of subject areas due to the agendas and thoughts of other folk who get involved in alternative views.
Covid Vaccines/ treatments are a real case in point where I have found it can be very difficult to have a balanced discussion as the increasingly binary nature of differing views often polarises the debate.
I am fortunate in that I am precluded from many of these discussions simply by the nature of direct conflicts of interest but I have seen the nature of these debates where opinions are often posted as facts by basically folk who have no professional knowledge and/ or experience.
I always appreciate that everyone can have a view and must decide for themselves and that is fine but there are a number of folk who take an entrenched position and will not be persuaded by sound scientific argument.
ATB
 
Whether deciding to contribute or not, let’s all agree to be kind and gracious to each other.

People are allowed to express their concerns about things they have seen / read, and each of us will have our own sense of whether or not any news story or item warrants further investigation for reassurance, or perhaps even a personal decision to change behaviour, but we must all remember that we live in increasingly polarised times, and that many sources of information seem intent on enthusiastically stimulating division, worry, anger, and conflict.

None of us really know anything about this topic, but if I were restricted to only having conversations on subjects I understood well, I’d hardly be equipped to ever talk to anyone about anything! :D
 
Wendal said:
I always appreciate that everyone can have a view and must decide for themselves and that is fine but there are a number of folk who take an entrenched position and will not be persuaded by sound scientific argument.
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which entrenched position? and which scientific argument?
 
beating_my_betes said:
which entrenched position? and which scientific argument?
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I believe @Wendal was making a general point, rather than referring to specifics in any thread / discussion either here or elsewhere on the internet.

For example some people take an entrenched position that the earth is flat, and cannot be persuaded by scientific argument / evidence involving photographs showing the planet from space, or images showing curvature of the surface from the upper atmosphere.
 
beating_my_betes said:
I'm sure you're right. But given their post was in agreement with the post by @Docb, who I very much do believe to be acting against the spirit you mention, made me think otherwise.
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My reading was that @Docb was simply, and quite rightly, encouraging us to remember that the conversation is outside our fields of knowledge and experience, and that we should hold it lightly, recognising that in the end whatever we think on the matter is unlikely to have any consequence, and certainly isn’t worth disagreeing about. 🙂
 
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Interestingly I’ve just come back from my local town and there was a card advertising milk available in the deli with “bovaer free” included in the little marketing label. Never seen that before so it definitely seems to be in the news and in people’s minds. Whether there’s a problem with it or not, public confidence can affect sales so decisions about its use might be guided by that.
 
@everydayupsanddowns. Quite agree with you, especially on your earlier point about polarised times. @Wendal and myself both think that there is a middle ground and the best way to find it is not to polarise things further by making comments suggesting we support one extreme or the other when we have no clear knowledge of the subject under discussion.

I will not take offence at the "jeering and thumbing your nose" jibe. I have had far worse things said about me.
 
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