better with or without medication?

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Carina1962

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Type 2
I have noticed from other posts on here that if you are a Type 2 and on medication, the BS levels are so much better. I'm diet/exercise controlled and i have never got into the 5's (i recall my lowest reading as 5.8 once) but i am normally in the 7's or 8's, if i'm in the 6's then that's good for me so am i supposed to be pleased that i'm not on medication? :confused:
 
I would of loved to have been given a better chance on diet and exercise carina but i was thrown onto metformin after 3 weeks and i was far from happy, and unfortunetly my levels where still very poor once i went onto the medication.Until i went on liquid metformin thats when i got better.Stil get highs but levels do drop below 10 now which they never did for the forst 6 month.So I would say id rather of been left diet and exercise and medication had been alot further down the line.
 
Although i've lost nearly 2 stones in weight i personally don't feel my levels are that low (i suppose most of us are never happy with out levels at the best of times) but it does get me down sometimes when i've hardly eaten all day and then i have to sometimes push myself to get up and do my daily walks all for a reading in the 7's - this diabetes really makes you work hard to keep them down, it's like i can picture Diabetes with a stick beating me saying. "work harder, work harder, you're slacking" 😡
 
I'm type 1 but feel the same Carina, im on insulin yet my levels are still above 10 - due to the fact ive never been given help on how to control it with carb counting and insulin etc so am now working twice as hard to get my levels good x
 
Thats a very good way of putting it carina I think sometimes alot of us think that as much as we push and try our best to control things Diabetes always has a way of biting us on the derriare.
 
Hi Carina,

Given what you describe doing, I'd have expected that you might have made more progress than you have with lowering your blood glucose levels.

In my opinion, eliminating or reducing certain foods is far more powerful than weight loss, exercise and most medications in keeping blood glucose levels down.

Why not give us an idea of what foods you are typically eating during a day and maybe we can give you some indication as to which might be causing your problems?

Best wishes - John
 
well, sometimes for breakast i have either porridge, rye bread toasted with say some vegetarian cheese, sometimes toast (i only use Burgen bread as it's low GI) with say peanut butter, that is what i have normally in the week but at weekends i might have some vegge bacon or vegge sausage (i'm not completely vegetarian though, am just trying to cut down on dairy products at the moment). For lunch i tend to have either a couple of sandwiches made with Burgen bread with either cheese or ham or sometimes a salad. I sometimes have fruit but not always as i'm trying to cut out eating inbetween meals. For my evening meals i tend to 'eat out the freezer' where i have frozen products which i cook in the oven and add mainly vegetable (frozen) or salad, ie by frozen products it could be say birds eye chicken chargrills or frozen salmon portions etc - i don't particularly think i have such a bad diet, oh and i do go out for the odd meal now and again so not really sure what i'm doing wrong as based on this surely my levels should be lower than the 7's or 8's?
 
Hi Carina,

You look as though you've got a lot of bread in your diet - I find that even the reduced carb Burgen bread still puts my levels high. The porridge is unlikely to be doing you any good either in terms of blood glucose levels. Veggie sausages often have quite a lot of carbohydrate too. It's good that you don't mention eating any potatoes.

For a start, I'd suggest that you try cutting back on the bread and porridge in particular. Why not try doing without those for a short while because I think that you'd soon see a big improvement on your blood glucose levels.

It really is the starchy carbohydrate that you need to be careful about and not the fats or protein.

I eat out a lot and that doesn't cause me any problems. When you eat out what sort of things are you typically eating?

John
 
Hi Carina,

It might help to discuss your targets with your medical team. My dad is on tablets and is always around 8. He was told by the specialist that this is about right for him, but we are all different.


Are your freezer meals ones you have done yourself or bought ones? Bought meals are higher in fat and salt than those we prepare ourselves.

Making small changes like two portions of vegetables instead of a portion of potatoes and a portion of vegetables helps too.

I'd be happy to not be on any medication, but I have never liked taking pills of any kind. It is a personal thing, although I do think it is sensible to be guided by the doctors too.
 
Hi

I think you need to be careful if you try a low/no carb diet as this may not be what you want to do and you need to find a way to make it work. We too have the soya and linseed Burgen bread and it is fine. We have no problems with it at all, Jessica has it for tea pretty much every day with peanut butter as well !

I would suggest however you do cut out the porridge. I know people think it is healthy and it is but it plays havoc with blood levels.

As an experiment to get Jessica higher and level over night, we started giving her porridge at about 8 every night. Well regardless of what she started at she shot up to the 20.0's within a couple of hours and stayed there until early hours of the morning. I chucked insulin into her but it didn't touch it. Porridge is a very powerful thing and very very long acting.

Have you ever tried a quick acting breakfast cereal to see what that does or just egg and bacon even, or egg on a slice of Burgen toast and monitor that for a while.

I think you are doing great but I would be thinking the same as you now I know about diabetes, I would want to be 4,5 and 6 with the occasional 7 and if extremely naughty 8 but hardly ever ! 🙂 I still wouldn't push for medication yet though, try looking at the food. I think you have a good diet as well but check out the porridge !
 
Hi Adrienne,

It's great to hear that you are doing so well with Jessica. I really do feel not only for the children that have diabetes but also for the parents too because I do realise that it is the parents who have all the worries. I assume that in general, the kids just get on with living their lives.

However, it is a very different situation for people with non-insulin dependent Type 2 such as Adrienne and me. The only means that we have to keep our blood glucose levels down is through diet. If we eat sugar or carbohydrate - because carbohydrates changes to sugar almost as soon as it is in our bodies - then that raises our blood glucose levels rise to unacceptable levels.

I'm totally with your recommendation of "egg and bacon" for breakfast - my usual breakfast these days is bacon and tomatoes sometimes with an egg either grilled or fried. That does nothing to my blood glucose levels. It's what nurses in hospitals and care homes who I know call "the diabetic breakfast". In addition, they tell me that they treat low blood glucose levels with slices of toast.

Very best wishes to both you and Jessica.

John
 
When I was first diagnosed I wanted to be put on pills, mainly cos I wanted a quick fix & to stop feeling pants all the time.

After being on here for the last year I am now glad I am still not on any medication! Sounds a nightmare.
I am rather happy with my levels & where the last 2 months of changing things arounds has got me. I have switched breakfasts to protien & low gi carb - so usually 1 scrambled egg on a slice of Vogels toast - instead of cereal. All the pasta & rice in my cupboards has gone brown, I probably only eat 1 portion of each a week. I still eat potatoes, but they dont seem to effect me too much. I probably have 2 or 3 portions of 'tato a week.

Lunches I usually have salad with tuna, jacket tato n cottage cheese, soup (i find the lowest sugar content ones) & a slice of bread that kind of thing.

My weight loss is steady but then I was only 1.5stone overweight when I was diagnosed, 1stone still to go but my main concern has been getting levels right first. I have upped excercise to 4-5 days a week, 3 swimming sessions which is a nice gentle workout & 1 cardio session & 1 gym session.

I agree that you should give porridge a miss for a while & try to cut down on your bread intake. Fingers crossed for you :D
 
Hi John

I was only pointing out there are choices and no/low carb totally is only one choice. You can up exercise or other things. I wasn't saying it was bad just there is a choice and each individual has to find what works for them.
 
Starbanana said:
When I was first diagnosed I wanted to be put on pills, mainly cos I wanted a quick fix & to stop feeling pants all the time.

After being on here for the last year I am now glad I am still not on any medication! Sounds a nightmare.
Click to expand...


Very right about that Starbanana because there ain't a quick fix for this condition by medications. In my opinion, it's diet that Type 2s need to change.

Starbanana said:
I am rather happy with my levels & where the last 2 months of changing things arounds has got me. I have switched breakfasts to protien & low gi carb - so usually 1 scrambled egg on a slice of Vogels toast - instead of cereal. All the pasta & rice in my cupboards has gone brown, I probably only eat 1 portion of each a week. I still eat potatoes, but they dont seem to effect me too much. I probably have 2 or 3 portions of 'tato a week.

Lunches I usually have salad with tuna, jacket tato n cottage cheese, soup (i find the lowest sugar content ones) & a slice of bread that kind of thing.

My weight loss is steady but then I was only 1.5stone overweight when I was diagnosed, 1stone still to go but my main concern has been getting levels right first. I have upped excercise to 4-5 days a week, 3 swimming sessions which is a nice gentle workout & 1 cardio session & 1 gym session.

I agree that you should give porridge a miss for a while & try to cut down on your bread intake. Fingers crossed for you :D
Click to expand...


You sound to be doing fine and on the right track. Great stuff!

How well are you doing with your control? Have you posted details anywhere because I'm always interested to raed success stories?

Best wishes - John
 
Adrienne said:
Hi John

I was only pointing out there are choices and no/low carb totally is only one choice. You can up exercise or other things. I wasn't saying it was bad just there is a choice and each individual has to find what works for them.
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Hi Adrienne - it's not a problem.

However, I was wanting to point out that us non-insulin dependent Type 2s have very few options really other than diet to keep blood glucose levels down. Carina seems to be confused anyway and it might confuse her even more to bring in how Type 1s deal with their totally different situation.

Personally, I'm not "no/low carb" - I eat 100 to 200g of carbohydrate a day in a 1,300 to 1,500 calorie diet - i.e. 40 to 50% of my diet as carbohydrate. I just keep clear of starchy carbohydrate because I know and others know too that's it causes me problems. I take almost all of my carbohydrate as fruit and vegetables because that doesn't raise my blood glucose levels.

Very best wishes - John
 
wallycorker said:
You sound to be doing fine and on the right track. Great stuff!

How well are you doing with your control? Have you posted details anywhere because I'm always interested to raed success stories?

Best wishes - John
Click to expand...

I keep thinking about posting details properly but I am holding off for my next blood check to see how it goes until then. After that I will share as much info as you could possibly want 😉 hehe. Also I want a good 3 months of my own test results to go back & compare to last year
 
Starbanana said:
I keep thinking about posting details properly but I am holding off for my next blood check to see how it goes until then. After that I will share as much info as you could possibly want 😉 hehe. Also I want a good 3 months of my own test results to go back & compare to last year
Click to expand...
Do it Starbanana! Do it! Others will find it helpful.

Best wishes - John
 
I think your figures are great Carina. Like you, I was diagnosed in October 2009 with a random glucose test of 14.5. I was put on Metformin straight away, but I found putting myself on a strict diet (which was a bit hit and miss at the beginning), was giving me readings of below 3, which made me feel very spaced out, depressed and out of control. I decided to try without Metformin (much to my Doctor's disgust). Anyway I persevered, went on a low GI/low carb diet and it seems to work. My last HbA1c was 6.2 in January.

I was lucky in that I was only 6 lbs overweight, which I have now lost plus another 12lbs so I am now struggling to put it back on! I do have porridge which seems to suit me as after breakfast the dog gets a 3-4 mile walk. I find eating snacks, (nuts, fruit, veg, etc) every couple of hours between my main meals seem to keep me on a even keel. Since my last check up my readings have been no higher than 6.4, except twice I have had readings of 9.4! Both times the cause was ice cream. It seems everyone is different, and you just have to keep trying new things to find what is right for you. I am sure you will soon reach your targets.

I am so much better without medication and the longer I can stay off it the better.

Hope this has helped (I am not an expert, but it seems to work for me).
 
wallycorker said:
Hi Adrienne - it's not a problem.

However, I was wanting to point out that us non-insulin dependent Type 2s have very few options really other than diet to keep blood glucose levels down. Carina seems to be confused anyway and it might confuse her even more to bring in how Type 1s deal with their totally different situation.

Personally, I'm not "no/low carb" - I eat 100 to 200g of carbohydrate a day in a 1,300 to 1,500 calorie diet - i.e. 40 to 50% of my diet as carbohydrate. I just keep clear of starchy carbohydrate because I know and others know too that's it causes me problems. I take almost all of my carbohydrate as fruit and vegetables because that doesn't raise my blood glucose levels.

Very best wishes - John
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Sorry but I haven't mentioned type 1 at all. There is choice, there is always choice but obviously my help as a mum of a child with type 1 is not wanted on this thread as you have clearly said I only know about 1 and not 2 and I will bow out graciously. Please excuse my ignorance on the matter.
 
carina62 said:
well, sometimes for breakast i have either porridge, rye bread toasted with say some vegetarian cheese, sometimes toast (i only use Burgen bread as it's low GI) with say peanut butter, that is what i have normally in the week but at weekends i might have some vegge bacon or vegge sausage (i'm not completely vegetarian though, am just trying to cut down on dairy products at the moment). For lunch i tend to have either a couple of sandwiches made with Burgen bread with either cheese or ham or sometimes a salad. I sometimes have fruit but not always as i'm trying to cut out eating inbetween meals. For my evening meals i tend to 'eat out the freezer' where i have frozen products which i cook in the oven and add mainly vegetable (frozen) or salad, ie by frozen products it could be say birds eye chicken chargrills or frozen salmon portions etc - i don't particularly think i have such a bad diet, oh and i do go out for the odd meal now and again so not really sure what i'm doing wrong as based on this surely my levels should be lower than the 7's or 8's?
Click to expand...

Hi there,
Your diet is not too bad, probably a decent one for a T2.
But your meter is telling you that perhaps you need a little help with it e.g. a standard slug of metformin. That all depends on your next A1c of course, if it is still in the 6s carry on as you are. Your 7s and 8s in the daytime are going to be offset by lower bgs during the night. So it is probably averaging out anyway.
Don't get disheartened at this stage - you are just setting off on a lifelong journey. And you are doing much better than the avaerage new T2.
Remember the Diet AND Exercise phase ( Diet alone is never an option) is only intended as a preliminary phase to see whether you can manage on just D&E. Most cannot control just by D&E ( you have lost 50% of your Beta cells before you are even dxed) and they are not really expected to ( especially as there is not actual programme of Diet and Exercise for new T2s - they are just told to go off and flounder). The order went out in 2008 that new T2s in Britain should all be given an initial phase on D&E rather than going straight onto metformin because it was imperative that they understood the necessity for lifestyle and diet changes.
And it is not a mutually exclusive choice, D&E OR meds. D&E is still at the core of control on meds, in fact you might argue that D&E only comes into its own and can be used most effectively when on meds as well.
Type 2 Diabetes and the Metabolic Syndrome of which it is part, effect all the cells and organs of the body adversely, we need to come out at it with all guns blazing. If you need it,take everthing thats on offer. Metformin is particularly important for its general beneficial effects apart from helping with bgs. Some medics were suggesting, half a dozen years ago, that anyone over 50 should be on metformin no matter what their state of health !
 
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