Astonished

[happydog]

A friend of mine has just received a diagnosis of T2 diabetes. I am astonished that he has been told that he can have up to three pieces of fruit per day, (any type including bananas and grapes) apparently fructose does not count and four slices of wholemeal bread, plus 4 squares of dark chocolate per day. He has been put on Metformin and statins. He was told this would allow him to have a more varied diet. He has also been told to avoid all fats. He was told that low carb high fat diets are not good for your overall health and their final effect is not proven. The body must have carbohydrate but all fats are not good. He was also told that T2's do not need to test their blood as it is meaningless and only the HbA1c test every year is of value. Very out of date advice I would say.

 

[Madeline]

I got told exactly the same rubbish! Plus ‘insulin makes you fat’.

 

[DaveB]

I hope you've told your friend that what he has been told is complete garbage. Isn't our NHS wonderful; some say it's the envy of the World and clap for it.

 

[Deleted member 27171]

Sounds like a combination of correct, incorrect and half truths. Of course fructose counts but that doesn't mean to say fruit including bananas and grapes aren’t ok, maybe not every day and not large portions but they can be eaten. No doubt the nurse is trying to keep things simple but sometimes it isn’t a case of you can eat this and can’t eat that and a bit more discussion would go a long way.
The thing about LCHF diets is that the research isn‘t long term or conclusive enough for the NHS to use it as a recommended diet for everyone with diabetes so a lot of nurses/dietitians don’t have the confidence to discuss it as a possible option for patients. Were there any concerns about your friend’s heart health that could’ve prompted the caution around fats?
As for not testing 🙄 the things people are advised against to save money - only meaningless if you don’t know how/what to do with it, which could of course be solved by a bit of training from the nurse.
Hopefully your friend will listen to your experience and be willing to try different ideas and see what works for them.

 

[Ralph-YK]

Doesn't surprise me at all. I was told not to manage cards, not change my diet. I was also told self testing was pointless, & dismissed out of hand.
When I told diabetic dieticain I'd self testing and gone from 6.1 to 11.7 from breakfast, she told me to ignore my levels. She then got all bothered by me having had bacon. Once (first time in years!).

 

[Drummer]

Wow. That is just wicked. Poor bloke if he follows that advice is all I can say.
Can he join us here and get some proper advice?

 

[happydog]

I have told him about what I have done and how it has helped me and also about this wonderful forum. I think he is suffering information overload at the moment plus the shock of being diagnosed as diabetic. He is slim, walks about five miles a day with his dog and seems otherwise very healthy. However he does have hypothyroidism (so do I). His wife is very supportive but confused at present. I just hope that he resists some of the useless advice that he has been given. I have suggested that he tests and keeps a food diary. Thank everyone for your replies.

 

[Madeline]

If he’s slim and has hypothyroidism he should push to be tested.

 

[eggyg]

A very good friend of mine has just been diagnosed with a Hba1C of 145! She had gestational diabetes 30 years ago. She is average weight, walks her three dogs twice a day and walks to and from work ( she’s a teaching assistant). They have prescribed her Metformin and statins and told her not to eat sugary things! She hasn’t been given a metre yet because of Covid! Luckily she has bought one. She has basically been left to get on with it. I’ve tried to give her some pointers and told her not to blame herself, which she does. I’m going to see her on Wednesday with some food ideas. I’ve never heard of anyone having a HbA1C so high. I don’t know why I’m shocked after the things I’ve read on here, but I am! And angry too. 😡

 

[Kaylz]

I got told exactly the same rubbish! Plus ‘insulin makes you fat’.

That's one thing I see posted a lot in groups, I'm of the belief that insulin in itself does not make anyone fat, its what you eat alongside the insulin xx

 

[Madeline]

It’s ridiculous, it’s like saying thyroxine makes you skinny!

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Glad you were on hand to offer an alternative viewpoint @happydog

I can understand the advice, and the aim to make things easier by offering simple suggestions... but we see here time and again how varied and fickle diabetes can be, and how one person can eat x and not y, but for another it’s completely the opposite.

I’ve seen a much broader acceptance of moderate and lower carbohydrate approaches over the last decade, from being viewed as dangerously extreme, to being fairly broadly accepted, and recommeded by some NHS Drs. Though some have not changed their opinion during that time, and some have become so tired of the ‘low carb’ hype that they kick back against it. Dietary interventions are notoriously hard to study too... so while there are some promosing studies, they come in a mix of others which show little effect, or that the approach is unpopular or unsustainable.

But from what i can see among members, there is no ‘one size fits all’ and what is important is that people are encouraged and enabled to find individualised approaches that work for them.

 

[happydog]

You are entirely correct Everydayupsanddowns. I hope I can get him to come onto the forum as I learnt so much here and have always had brilliant support. I am aware that Low Carb has not been used for long enough to provide a solid result. Maybe as we are all different there isn't one? I only know that it helped me and I think the advice about the fruit and that amount of bread etc was not good. I am also a believer in testing. I do it because then I know where I am and how things are going. I would not want to wait six months or a year to know if I was reducing my BG level. Unfortunately some people take a long time to change their point of view.

 

[grovesy]

I personally for a number of years could tolerate more carbs than I can now.

 

[ianf0ster]

All those who say that there hasn't been long enough testing of LCHF are ignoring that
A). LCHF was our ancestral way of eating before modern agriculture. Also early attempts at grain based diets, in ancient Egypt caused Obesity and Heart disease. MRI's on mummy's prove this.
B). LCHF was the basis of the first ever diet for the obese back in the 1800s.
C). LCHF has been the dietary way of dealing with childhood epilepsy for around 100 years.

Yet still those who should know better say it is unproven or even dangerous. Though I will admit that it is dangerous to the profits of the bug processed food companies!

 

[Browser]

A friend of mine has just received a diagnosis of T2 diabetes. I am astonished that he has been told that he can have up to three pieces of fruit per day, (any type including bananas and grapes) apparently fructose does not count and four slices of wholemeal bread, plus 4 squares of dark chocolate per day. He has been put on Metformin and statins. He was told this would allow him to have a more varied diet. He has also been told to avoid all fats. He was told that low carb high fat diets are not good for your overall health and their final effect is not proven. The body must have carbohydrate but all fats are not good. He was also told that T2's do not need to test their blood as it is meaningless and only the HbA1c test every year is of value. Very out of date advice I would say.

Nonsense. I regularly hear people saying they have been given this advice. I can understand but don’t agree with the various reasons they give for condemning self testing for type 2. eg. Results can cause undue worry and concern ; Joe Bloggs is not equipped to understand or use the information usefully ; testing is a waste of time and money. etc. etc.
When I was diagnosed, four years ago, I had been advised by a friend, also type 2, to start testing, keep a food diary and use the information sensibly to keep BG in check and under control. I knew that the diabetic nurse ( who I incidentally knew quite well ) was going to give me the standard, party-line ‘advice’ but I got my ore in early and told her my intentions. She didn’t try to persuade me otherwise and actually agreed with much of what I said. I regularly test before dinner and two hours after and, while, through experience, I have a fairly good idea of the effects of certain foods, the routine keeps me on top of the condition. If I didn’t test at all, I know that I would gradually lapse into indiscriminate eating habits and suffer the consequences.

 

[Robin]

. I’ve never heard of anyone having a HbA1C so high

Mine was 16.1% which I’ve just put through a converter, and it comes out as 152.5 in new money. And my GP was happy to assume I was Type 2 at first, even with that level!

 

[trophywench]

Mine was 13-ish %, say 125 in new money.

 

[eggyg]

Mine was 16.1% which I’ve just put through a converter, and it comes out as 152.5 in new money. And my GP was happy to assume I was Type 2 at first, even with that level!

The first thing I asked her was had she been put on insulin. Were you just left to get on with it on your own? I’m worried for her. I’m going to help as much as I can.

 

[Robin]

The first thing I asked her was had she been put on insulin. Were you just left to get on with it on your own? I’m worried for her. I’m going to help as much as I can.

I was first put on gliclazide, because my Liver Function tests were all out of kilter, so Metformin was contraindicated. It didn’t really help, and I felt very alone and struggling. My GP told me to go out and buy a meter, and she would prescribe strips, and I was to test myself twice a week! (though I did later have a discussion with her about what more frequent testing was showing me, and she agreed. The testing and driving rules weren’t in place then)
Fortunately, she recognised that I wasn’t a typical Type 2 and referred me to the hospital. And I also bought the Gretchen Becker book and read it from cover to cover, reduced my carbs, and got my next HbA1c down to ....12%! Then I had my hopsital appointment 3 months later, where they added Metformin because me LFTs had calmed down, and went on with the Type 2 diagnosis, until the appointment three months after that, when they thought to do a GAD test, and put me on background insulin to be going on with.
Finally, a year after diagnosis, I got Novorapid added to the mix, told to stop the Glic and Met, and got reclassified Type 1. (Though my GP was still convinced I must be Type 2, because older people don’t develop Type 1.)
I did spend quite a lot of time blaming myself, having been told it was Type 2, and thinking that I must have brought it on myself. This forum didn’t exist then, and there wasn’t an awful lot of online stuff, I found an American site where everyone seemed to have HbA1cs in the low 5s, and that put me off seeking any more forums til I stumbled on this about 5 years after diagnosis.