Appalling statement

[Northerner]

Ironically, I sometimes wonder if they put more effort into educating and supporting people with diabetes - allowing test strips, better access to knowledgeable dieticians, podiatrists etc. then a large number of those diabetics might become the ones costing the service LESS. I've encountered so many people (myself included!) who live healthier lives than before diagnosis. Many of my friends continue to drink, smoke and eat with abandon because they don't have to face any pressing, day-to-day health decisions and may actually be storing up big health problems for the future.

 

[Andy HB]

You believe you brought it on yourselves because you've read, or been told that you did.

I disagree with that, I'm afraid. I'm a sceptic, by nature (hence my problems with taking statins for my cholesterol!).

I believe that I brought it on myself because, since losing 3.5 stone, I am no longer on medication, my spot bg results are usually pretty good and my HbA1c is 5.9%

I am confident that would not have been the case had I remained generally inactive and continued my erratic / poor diet (but am not going to prove it to you now!)

Andy 🙂

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Fair enough, I got a bit carried away 😉

 

[xxlou_lxx]

I dont agree with the attitude of the article towards type 2 diabetes, i feel they could get their facts right before publishing such prejudice things! I think that the governent are right though to put tax on fattening foods as this will be more beneficial in the long run (for health and nhs costs) but its a bit of a shame that the budget cuts may affect people looking for IVF and certain cancer drugs? its a bit of a shame to be honest

 

[Dizzydi]

I dont agree with the attitude of the article towards type 2 diabetes, i feel they could get their facts right before publishing such prejudice things! I think that the governent are right though to put tax on fattening foods as this will be more beneficial in the long run (for health and nhs costs) but its a bit of a shame that the budget cuts may affect people looking for IVF and certain cancer drugs? its a bit of a shame to be honest

Can I just add to this madness....

Why is it when you buy fresh fruit and veg and all the stuff which is good for you, it ends up costing more than buying bad foods and pre packed rubbish full of fat and all the nasty things you can think of?

I popped to the supermarket yesterday for my fresh fruit and veg for the week and spent ?40!! It is like trying to be healthy is costing twice as much as if you want to consume rubbish.....I agree with lou - tax the fatty, rubbish pre packed foods and not the good stuff!!

 

[AlisonM]

Apparently, it costs more to produce the good stuff, which is labour intensive and often can't be fully automated than it does to put some chemical gloop in one end of a machine and spit out reconstituted chicken a la mono-sodium glutamate at the other.

We have people like Maggie Thatcher (inventor of Mr Whippy ice cream, in which there is no cream) to thank for this. In the post war era when all science was good science and the, admittedly laudable, aim was to feed everyone as cheaply and healthily as possible, huge amounts of dosh were spent finding chemical means of reproducing natural flavours and textures. The end result? Pot Noodles.

 

[Lewy]

I think that the governent are right though to put tax on fattening foods as this will be more beneficial in the long run (for health and nhs costs)

Why should everyone pay additional tax on junk food because they want to treat themselves once in a while?

 

[rossi_mac]

another case of not reading being good for your blood pressure 😉

 

[xxlou_lxx]

Why should everyone pay additional tax on junk food because they want to treat themselves once in a while?

It was just my opinion you dont need to agree 😉

all im saying is that if they put tax on junk that some people clearly eat too much of, resulting in heart disorders, digestive complaints etc, then i guess ur nhs care is "pre paid" if you were to take too much in your diet.... think about how much healthy eating campaigns etc there have been, i know its easier to buy microwave currys but if you shop around you can get fresh food loads cheaper... i find using half a dozen spices (50p each) and some veg u can make an awesome curry 😉 plus the spices are there to use again and again so probably ends up cheaper just fling some left over chicken from your sunday roast in?

I love chocolate and doritos but id maybe think twice about eating them as often if there was added tax.. and would end up helping me lose some weight hehe

I also have an alcoholic drink as a treat but there is tax on them and no one seems to notice the difference when they are staggering down town on a sat night lol

At the end of the day we have a great thing in the NHS and something that a lot of contries dont have.... I just think tax on some food which is clearly bad for you is a small price to pay for something as (overall) good as our healthcare system

again just my opinion 🙄

 

[AlisonM]

The whole idea of putting a tax on alcohol was to discourage excessive drinking. It worked really well as we all know, about as well as putting a tax levy on fast food is likely to. I don't know what the answer to the puzzle is, but extra tax isn't it.

 

[fruitloaf]

I admit the article puts it rather simplistically but I agree with the general message. The majority of the population don't have a diagnosis of diabetes but a huge number of people either have type 2 diabetes and don't know about it or are at risk of developing it. By indicating that type 2 diabetes is associated with obesity, lack of exercise etc it reinforces the idea that following some lifestyle changes a persons risk of diabetes is reduced.
I personally feel that encouraging people to believe that type 2 diabetes is purely or even mostly due to genetic factors is unhelpful. It removes any motivation to make changes and gives the impression that we don't have any influence over our health. Individually, all cases of diabetes are different and everyone's lifestyle is different. But overall, across the whole population, healthier lifestyles (dietary/exercise) are likely to reduce the number of people developing type 2 diabetes.

Just my personal opinion, feel free to disagree

 

[Ellowyne]

I can barely be bothered to even post in relation to this articel...I am just so very tired of constantly being labeled and judged because I am Fat, Fat, Fat...! Whooopppeeee! and even fatter, and type 2!

But no one, but no one can know what the issues are for any one individual and their circumstances. I would beg anyone to walk a mile in my shoes, wide fitting for fat people, and tell me that my Diabetes is down to my lifestyle or choices that I make about food and excersise. I pray to God that I could excercise, but my mobility is so poor that I am unable to even stand for longer than a minute...The pain I have endured...thanks to the lack of care from the NHS!

Too long to expalain, but I intend to get all I can out of the NHS, their incompetance ruined my life and when challenged they all close ranks...Just a waste of time!!

By the way, yes I am angry and hurt and so very depressed and tired to be reading yet another condemning article that will do nothing but fuel 'Fat Predjudice' And you know, when they do this, the fat people get more depressed and isolated...and probably fatter!

 

[harryharry2012]

To be honest i am not going to read the artical.

It is the same old stuff again..... I pay considerable amounts of tax and i have not until 3 weeks ago really needed to use the NHS. Yes i am overweight and maybe my lifstyle needs to change which it has, but i have a right to be treated as well as all those serriously under weight people, oh dont they cost the NHS? or those who have exercised, played sports and got injured, wondered what the cost of that is to the NHS? Motor cyclists or drivers etc ... are they not life style choices?

It is very easy to say people are lazy or blame just the fat people of the world but others cost the NHS. I would suggest we need to get a grip of looking at effective ways of supporting people and possibly not paying hundreds of quangos and private firms money which could be used from the NHS Budget to give true front line help.

 

[marke]

I admit the article puts it rather simplistically but I agree with the general message. The majority of the population don't have a diagnosis of diabetes but a huge number of people either have type 2 diabetes and don't know about it or are at risk of developing it. By indicating that type 2 diabetes is associated with obesity, lack of exercise etc it reinforces the idea that following some lifestyle changes a persons risk of diabetes is reduced.

I'm with you fruitloaf, does anyone seriously believe the huge increase in Type 2 is due to just genetics ? Yes there ARE exceptions and everyone is different, however you only need to look at people generally nowadays to realise that weight is an issue. I personally don't see anythnig wrong with what the article says. How else can you put it ? It is a classic lifestyle disease except for those with a genetic disposition to it ? Your average reader is not going to understand that. Most people just think diabetics are people that can't eat sugar.
There IS a huge problem with Type 2, in that it can go undetected for a long time and potentially cause a lot of damage. There needs to be more awareness of it to stop this happening. Its important that people ARE diagnosed early and get treatment and maybe publicity like this will help.
I don't agree that treatment should be withheld except in extreme circumstances. If you are diagnosed and refuse to make any changes at all then perhaps you should not be treated, but that would only occur after all efforts had been made to resolve why you were not taking measures to resolve the issue and thats NOT just losing weight. There are individual reasons why this might not be possible.

 

[lucy123]

I feel quite depressed now. Generally people automatically assume that I have diabetes because I am overweight and this thread seems to add to that way of thinking too.

I just find it all very sad..if only people would ask for the real reason.

 

[Northerner]

I'm with you fruitloaf, does anyone seriously believe the huge increase in Type 2 is due to just genetics ? Yes there ARE exceptions and everyone is different, however you only need to look at people generally nowadays to realise that weight is an issue. I personally don't see anythnig wrong with what the article says. How else can you put it ? It is a classic lifestyle disease except for those with a genetic disposition to it ? Your average reader is not going to understand that. Most people just think diabetics are people that can't eat sugar. ...

80% of people with Type 2 diabetes are overweight at diagnosis. That means 20% (a very signifcant proportion) are not. Of the 80% it's quite possible that the pancreatic impairment that leads to diabetes is a large contributing factor in their weight gain. I wholly agree that no doubt a very large proportion of the 80% contributed to their diagnosis by unhealthy eating and lifestyle - I have no issue with that at all, and many of our members here have freely admitted that they feel wholly responsible for their diagnosis.

What I object to is the reinforcement in this aggressive and prejudicial manner of the notion that EVERYONE with diabetes (on rare occasions a distinction may be mentioned about type) has brought it on themselves. For hundreds of thousands of people this is simply not true! (20% of 2.5 million is 500,000 people)

It's a difficult message to get across, I know. People DO need to take responsibility for their health - but for those who do, and still get diagnosed this is a terrible insult. To be portrayed as a drain on the health service alongside smokers and Saturday night brawlers is a totally unnecessary slur, and hits a lot of very vulnerable people very hard.

 

[Lizzie]

I don't understand how attacking those with perceived 'lifestyle diseases' will help at all. Even if people have apparently "brought it on themselves" - so what? The fact is that these people now have health conditions and are sick and vulnerable and scared, whatever the cause of this. If you go down that road you could say a lot of people who use the NHS "brought their condition on themselves" - what about anorexics? Or people who are injured playing sport? If they did not endanger themselves in that way they would not have got injured. Even cancer is now seen as self-inflicted. If you look at things that way then almost anyone could be said to have self inflicted conditions, hardly anyone lives a blame free 100% healthy life all their lives, even if they are a healthy adult you could look back at anyone's teen years or childhood and see something they did "wrong".

My point is that this is not in any way a helpful way to look at anything. Instead why not support people? Why not compel big supermarkets to reduce the price of all fruit and veg (not just 2 or 3 as 'offers of the week')? If you go in the supermarket you see a few fruit and veg reduced but if you go down the choccy aisle almost all price stickers are highlighted yellow as various offers. Or why not bring leisure centres back in house and charge reasonable prices so people can afford to exercise? I know you can get it prescribed but last time I checked it was only a few sessions you get not anything meaningful. Or why not run classes to teach people how to cook? Recipes can be very intimidating - not everyone knows where to get the ingredients or what the terminology means. Teaching cookery at school would be a start. When I was there it was 'Food Technology' and we learned about McDonalds burgers and cake and pizza and how ready meals are made all identical. There was one lesson on how to boil an egg but apart from that no cooking went on. Shopping lessons might also help - sounds silly but you do need to be savvy to avoid the mind tricks and temptations round every corner in supermarkets, they are very clever in manipulating people to buy stuff they do not want or need.

Any one of these things might help. But attacking people does not. It only makes them feel miserable.

 

[cazscot]

Here we go again 😡...

Yes I will put my hand up... I had an unheathy lifestyle, ate too much didnt exercise etc etc... I then got my act together started to exercise and loose when and then was diagnosed (what a kick in the teeth that was)! Now I am not denying the fact that yes my lifestyle did contribute to me getting T2, at the early age of 38, but I have friends who are/were as large as me and didnt exercise and are not T2. My father, mother, both grand mothers and one grand father were/are all T2 so in my mind genetics plays a large part of it... In my view lifestyle definatley plays a part but it is not the whole part, how much is own to lifestyle and how much is down to genetics nobody knows... So sweeping statments like that make me as mad as h***.

On the other side is my hubby who was diagnosed T2 10 years ago, has never been overweight has a bmi of 23/24, and did a resonable amount of exercise... Was his T2 caused by his lifestyle - mmm I think not! (His father is a thin T2 as well).

As for not treating overweight people, where will it stop? Do you not treat someone with chemical burns from say hair dye because it was their choice to dye their hair? Do you not treat someone cos they are into sports and fell and broke their leg whilst playing football? Do you not treat someone because they didnt look when crossing the road and was knocked down? If we go down that route, no-one would be treated for anything as an excuse would always be found not to treat!

As for "fat tax" dont agree with that one either... I eat healthily now so why sould I pay more for "fat food" if I want a treat now and then... Same goes for alcohol, I have never binge drunk and I dont drink very much at all, so why should I be penalised financially because other people have a problem with alcohol??

Right I am off my soapbox now...

 

[xxlou_lxx]

I don't understand how attacking those with perceived 'lifestyle diseases' will help at all. Even if people have apparently "brought it on themselves" - so what? The fact is that these people now have health conditions and are sick and vulnerable and scared, whatever the cause of this. If you go down that road you could say a lot of people who use the NHS "brought their condition on themselves" - what about anorexics? Or people who are injured playing sport? If they did not endanger themselves in that way they would not have got injured. Even cancer is now seen as self-inflicted. If you look at things that way then almost anyone could be said to have self inflicted conditions, hardly anyone lives a blame free 100% healthy life all their lives, even if they are a healthy adult you could look back at anyone's teen years or childhood and see something they did "wrong".

My point is that this is not in any way a helpful way to look at anything. Instead why not support people? Why not compel big supermarkets to reduce the price of all fruit and veg (not just 2 or 3 as 'offers of the week')? If you go in the supermarket you see a few fruit and veg reduced but if you go down the choccy aisle almost all price stickers are highlighted yellow as various offers. Or why not bring leisure centres back in house and charge reasonable prices so people can afford to exercise? I know you can get it prescribed but last time I checked it was only a few sessions you get not anything meaningful. Or why not run classes to teach people how to cook? Recipes can be very intimidating - not everyone knows where to get the ingredients or what the terminology means. Teaching cookery at school would be a start. When I was there it was 'Food Technology' and we learned about McDonalds burgers and cake and pizza and how ready meals are made all identical. There was one lesson on how to boil an egg but apart from that no cooking went on. Shopping lessons might also help - sounds silly but you do need to be savvy to avoid the mind tricks and temptations round every corner in supermarkets, they are very clever in manipulating people to buy stuff they do not want or need.

Any one of these things might help. But attacking people does not. It only makes them feel miserable.

I actually resent paying 1.99 for a pack of 3 mixed peppers and Grapes... why are they so expensive?? I literally have to go to every shop to get my shopping because different deals in every shop, Lidl or aldi are usually good for fruit and veg (price wise) And I as well dont understand why there are always great deals on the junk food.... it should totally be the other way around.... that would be a brilliant incentive for healthy eating 🙄

I have to budget my money to the last penny to afford my bills shopping 🙄and gracies things etc.... I have to write a list every week so i dont get tempted by the deals! although i cant resist a huge bag of doritos for a pound (thanks sainsburys) It is so crap that the junk food is the cheapest like

 

[Northerner]

I actually resent paying 1.99 for a pack of 3 mixed peppers and Grapes... why are they so expensive?? I literally have to go to every shop to get my shopping because different deals in every shop, Lidl or aldi are usually good for fruit and veg (price wise) And I as well dont understand why there are always great deals on the junk food.... it should totally be the other way around.... that would be a brilliant incentive for healthy eating 🙄

I have to budget my money to the last penny to afford my bills shopping 🙄and gracies things etc.... I have to write a list every week so i dont get tempted by the deals! although i cant resist a huge bag of doritos for a pound (thanks sainsburys) It is so crap that the junk food is the cheapest like

I think that the problem is that the healthy food is seen to command a premium, simply because it is something we are told we need to eat - in the same way that 'organic' and 'free range' command a premium. My problem tends to be that, as I live alone, the quantities of fresh fruit and veg on 'offer' are just too much and I'd end up binning a lot - making it even more expensive to buy effectivey. We used to have a local fruit shop where you had greater choice at decent prices, but it closed due to lack of trade