Anyone else annoyed by BJ's 7pm broadcast? I do not understand why he is going to relax restrictions when us in group 6 have not yet been vaccinated.

[Sally71]

Thanks @Kaylz I might try those, although at the moment she won’t accept any moisturiser because she doesn’t like the feel of it. I don’t know whether that's an autism thing (she has sensory issues) or whether it just makes her feel dirty again! Have started buying moisturising soaps, don’t know if they are any good but I have to try. We are doing ok at the moment, moods have improved and she hasn’t had any really bad thoughts for a few weeks now, I just don’t know how to help her get rid of that voice in her head which tells her everything is dirty. Autism shouldn’t be too much of a problem as she's obviously high functioning and it took 14 years for us to realise she had it, and even the tics we could live with if we had to, sometimes they can be quite funny. Was a shock when they started so suddenly, and we are hoping they are not permanent, but if only we could get rid of the evil OCD then everything else we could live with I think!

 

[AndBreathe]

I think we are all going to have to come to terms with a reality that COVID is unlikely to go completely away - even if/when everyone is vaccinated.

Vaccines aren't a 100%, belt and braces assurance of no disease. For example, I have been vaccinated against Measles, Mumps and Rubella, but had had them all - Rubella twice.

At the end of the day, all that can be done is to reduce the chances of both contracting and passing on any infectious condition.

For the vast majority of people, over time, this will mean leading a "sensible" (define for yourself) life, with decent personal and environmental hygiene.

If any person's personal risk dials will not allow them to interact with others or lead anything like what used to serve as a normal life, then they must decide for themselves what is acceptable to them, whilst respecting others will have risk dials set in different places.

Life is imperfect, and this last year has highlighted some of the reasons we have been so very fortunate in the past, and are likely to be similarly fortunate in the future.

If any person feels they must shield, or continue to shield, beyond the end of the current position, then this is they will have to organise for themselves and their loved ones. The world can't remain closed forever, and many, many people cannot thrive - for a million and one reasons - in our current circumstances.

I really do feel for those who run businesses negatively impacted by COVID. They made brave decisions to risk their security to start and maintain businesses; many of which will be lucky to survive our current circumstances. For those who are sole traders and self employed, it seems like a real lottery whether there has been support for them over these last 12 months.

How many of the population could have afforded to live, and continue to pay their bills, including mortgages, rent, council tax or whatever for a full year, without help. Mortgage "holidays" are all very well, but that has simply accrued more debt for those who used that option.

We really are in a no-win situation, but we must move forward, somehow. Sadly, that will mean not pleasing all of the people all of the time. We've known for a long time, that's never going to happen.

 

[Freddie1966]

I think we are all going to have to come to terms with a reality that COVID is unlikely to go completely away - even if/when everyone is vaccinated.

Vaccines aren't a 100%, belt and braces assurance of no disease. For example, I have been vaccinated against Measles, Mumps and Rubella, but had had them all - Rubella twice.

At the end of the day, all that can be done is to reduce the chances of both contracting and passing on any infectious condition.

For the vast majority of people, over time, this will mean leading a "sensible" (define for yourself) life, with decent personal and environmental hygiene.

If any person's personal risk dials will not allow them to interact with others or lead anything like what used to serve as a normal life, then they must decide for themselves what is acceptable to them, whilst respecting others will have risk dials set in different places.

Life is imperfect, and this last year has highlighted some of the reasons we have been so very fortunate in the past, and are likely to be similarly fortunate in the future.

If any person feels they must shield, or continue to shield, beyond the end of the current position, then this is they will have to organise for themselves and their loved ones. The world can't remain closed forever, and many, many people cannot thrive - for a million and one reasons - in our current circumstances.

I really do feel for those who run businesses negatively impacted by COVID. They made brave decisions to risk their security to start and maintain businesses; many of which will be lucky to survive our current circumstances. For those who are sole traders and self employed, it seems like a real lottery whether there has been support for them over these last 12 months.

How many of the population could have afforded to live, and continue to pay their bills, including mortgages, rent, council tax or whatever for a full year, without help. Mortgage "holidays" are all very well, but that has simply accrued more debt for those who used that option.

We really are in a no-win situation, but we must move forward, somehow. Sadly, that will mean not pleasing all of the people all of the time. We've known for a long time, that's never going to happen.

Brilliant post so well worded

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Hi @Sally71 , the moisturising soap works wonders so well worth a try for your lovely daughter.
@Kaylz would be able to direct you in the right direction re the hand creams, I would suspect it's a case of finding one that leaves nothing on the surface of the skin.

Would your daughter accept/try a barrier cream? If so there's one used by the Norwegian fisherman that leaves no tacky/greasy feel to the skin. I used it whilst earning a living milking cows for a living.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

I think we are all going to have to come to terms with a reality that COVID is unlikely to go completely away - even if/when everyone is vaccinated.

I think the question is what kind of endemic it'll become (in, say, 5 years). Will it be like flu where we're not too bothered if 10,000 people die in a year, or will it be more like measles where we're really upset when there are clusters of cases and where we really try hard to keep numbers of cases low.

 

[Eddy Edson]

I think the question is what kind of endemic it'll become (in, say, 5 years). Will it be like flu where we're not too bothered if 10,000 people die in a year, or will it be more like measles where we're really upset when there are clusters of cases and where we really try hard to keep numbers of cases low.

The UK govt and health authorities have obviously decided on the flu option, at least for the moment. A bit less than a year ago they surrendered in the first battle, giving up on suppression at the first signs of community transmission. Now they're getting the next surrender organised, preparing to allow the thing to go long-term endemic (and bubble away breeding new strains, no doubt).

It'll be interesting to see how the world copes with some countries going that way, others going for the measles option. I know where I'd rather live.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

It'll be interesting to see how the world copes with some countries going that way, others going for the measles option.

It will. I can imagine the EU going for the measles end of the spectrum which would likely push us in that direction. Or maybe we'll all put up with not much control, with annual 20,000 average deaths from flu+COVID-19 and regular updated vaccines (and quite a bit of sickness of people who don't get a vaccine regularly).

 

[Kaylz]

@Sally71 the SOS is a tad on the greasier side so may not be the best for her in that case but as long as you don't put too much O'Keefe's on then that doesn't leave any feeling of it (it's easy to put a little too much on without realising though) my OCD doesn't allow me to touch tubes of cream without washing them first so the 93g tubs are handy as they come in a plastic sealed thing so I just cut that and tip it out on to a clean surface, also another one that doesn't leave a residue is the Vaseline Anti-Bac one so that may be another option to try, I'm not autistic but I don't like feeling of some and I also don't like emollients as it feels as though I'm not able to wash my hands right with it on

As well as OCD I have sensitive skin as well so soap wise I can only use bars of Dove which are moisturised and they do help greatly, I tried an Asda sensitive moisturising one a few months ago as had ran out of Dove and I had an awful reaction with my hands and forearms swelling and weeping after using it twice so won't be making that mistake again!

I don't mean to put a downer on things but it's unlikely she'll ever be free of it but she will get better, it will take time and she will probably have repeat episodes but they will pass, I've never had a bout like this but then the nation hasn't been this way before in my lifetime
xx

 

[AndBreathe]

I think the question is what kind of endemic it'll become (in, say, 5 years). Will it be like flu where we're not too bothered if 10,000 people die in a year, or will it be more like measles where we're really upset when there are clusters of cases and where we really try hard to keep numbers of cases low.

Nobody knows that, but of course, we all hope it'll be much less of a difficulty as this last year has been. We mustn't forget that whilst we accept 'flu (being around in the world) as part of our overall winter living, lives are lost to 'flu every single year, yet we have come to accept that as being very unfortunate, but "usual".

Let's face it, we can't predict the future with something this new, but it shouldn't stop us moving forward. I mean, we don't know how, as an example, personal relationships will work out, when we meet someone new. It could be forever happiness, or a nightmare, but few of us have lived lifelong monastic lifestyles. We have to move forward.

Please don't think I'm hard, or a disbeliever in how catastrophic this has been for some people and families, but there there are also those for whom that devastation has come about because of the lockdowns, and changes to our lives. I'm thinking of missed diagnoses, and lack of monitoring for other potentially life altering, or life ending conditions.

It really has been a lose/lose situation for so, so many, and I count me and mine incredibly lucky come to this point disease-free - as far as we know. Our lives have been impacted, but we have to come to terms with the impacts we see as negative. That is our job, I feel.

No vaccination programme will see a 100% uptake, and for some that will not be for the want of trying. Some people are being advised against vaccination at this point, where their specialist advisors cannot agree which, if any of the current offerings are safe for them, then of course there will be those who will decline it for their own reasons.

Life has changed, and we have to change alongside it. The specifics of those changes, and what levels of acceptance might be required will vary for each of us, but I think it will take a while for life to become relaxed again for many.

That's unfortunate, but it is what it is, in my personal opinion.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

We mustn't forget that whilst we accept 'flu (being around in the world) as part of our overall winter living, lives are lost to 'flu every single year, yet we have come to accept that as being very unfortunate, but "usual".

I don't think I'm bothered by that so much as the assumption that that's inevitable. There doesn't seem to be any aspiration for doing better. (Perhaps that's part of this newly found desire not to overpromise, and perhaps secretly they're anticipating we'll do much better.)

(As a reason for optimism: our vaccines against this virus are amazingly good, closer to measles than to flu. Presuming this virus doesn't change too much, surely we can reasonably hope to keep it at very low levels, much more like measles than flu.)

 

[mikeyB]

I reckon that it as a pipe dream thinking we will ever get rid of this virus. One of these days, a variant will appear which is not affected by current immunisations. That is completely out of our control. All virus mutations start with one person. They get infected with the standard virus, the virus gets into the cell, and programs replication. Just one genetic error in that replication could produce an immune virus. It's entirely a matter of luck.

That mutated virus may well pose a different risk - it may be either more or less severe. It might join the other endemic coronaviruses we have and just cause a cold. For the virus, that is the best "choice" for avoiding extinction. More severe, it will join the SARS and MERS gang and get eliminated.

Of course, if the mutated virus is more severe, it might well kill patient one, in which case the papers will report a new deadly version of the virus and frighten everyone for no reason. That's one thing you will never stop.

 

[AndBreathe]

I don't think I'm bothered by that so much as the assumption that that's inevitable. There doesn't seem to be any aspiration for doing better. (Perhaps that's part of this newly found desire not to overpromise, and perhaps secretly they're anticipating we'll do much better.)

(As a reason for optimism: our vaccines against this virus are amazingly good, closer to measles than to flu. Presuming this virus doesn't change too much, surely we can reasonably hope to keep it at very low levels, much more like measles than flu.)

Viruses mutate. That's how they survive, so our best hope is that this one mutates to become less and less harmful to it's hosts.

If a virus is so successful it eliminates every host it encounters, the hosts die out, and with them the virus (as it needs a host to survive).

I've spoken a little about risk dials and appetite for risk, but don't then start me on likelihoods. I could bore you for a veeeeery long time with that one.

 

[trophywench]

The Norwegian one - is it Neutrogena? Cos that is good and works well for some actual skin medical conditions that affect the hands. Gave the last tube I happened to have with me to a younger chap on the same lake fishing as us, who had something which caused his fingers to crack so he was having difficulty releasing the carp he caught - and it's all VERY strictly enforced 'catch & release' (these are big buggers measuring several feet in each direction, weighing at least a couple of stone apiece - not the size of a mackerel you can hold in one hand & unhook with the other)

You do have to let it sink in for a minute or two though from memory and if she's not prepared to do that I dunno what to suggest. Get a tube, try it yourself, it's unperfumed so get her dad to use it too and see how he thinks it feels/time it takes to disappear. It is absolutely non greasy so you can use it and going back to 'old' mode - if you'd pushed your typewriter back across the desk, used the Neutrogena and then pulled the typewriter back towards you, you could pick up a piece of expensive eg 'linen bond' printed letterhead and use it, without leaving grease marks on the paper, the keys or anything else.

 

[Pumper_Sue]

The Norwegian one

Yep that's the one

 

[Inka]

@Kaylz @Sally71 I use a natural vegetable fat soap and I’ve found it’s made a huge difference. Even with the moisturising soaps like Dove, my hands got dry, but this soap seems to have little effect on their moisture level at all. I’ve also switched to a natural soap instead of shower gel and the result has been incredible. Apparently shower gels leave a kind of film that dries the skin. I didn’t believe it but thought I’d try a soap bar for environmental reasons if nothing else - and it actually worked amazingly.

 

[Alannah]

@Cazzacaz better make sure you’re shielding then if you’re that upset about it. My daughter is 14 and type 1, don’t know if she’ll actually get a vaccine as they aren’t currently licensed for under 16s (although I believe they might be working on it). She’s also having massive problems with anxiety, tics including verbal/swearing ones which she gets really upset about, OCD (hand washing/germs, her hands look like they belong to someone aged 114 not 14) and undiagnosed autism, all which only blew up after the first lockdown. She NEEDS to be at school, has been attending as a vulnerable child for this term, and would be much better if her friends were there too. She has threatened to end her life a couple of times and we are getting nowhere with childrens mental health services. We can’t keep her stuck at home, she’s doomed if we do and doomed if we don’t. School have been brilliant with bubbles and distancing and masks and ventilation and everything they can possibly do to minimise the covid risk. I think a staggered return to normality is the right thing to do and schools should definitely have priority because young peoples’ lives and futures are being seriously compromised. I hope it isn’t too soon but we can’t stay prisoners in our homes forever either, done carefully maybe it will work!

As others have suggested Neutrogena, I'll add that I found their 'hydra boost gel' excellent in dealing with cracked hands - it's light and clear and may not be anxiety causing. The nhs webpage every mind matters is very good too in case you haven't previously come across it. All best to you and your daughter.

 

[Kaylz]

@Kaylz @Sally71 I use a natural vegetable fat soap and I’ve found it’s made a huge difference. Even with the moisturising soaps like Dove, my hands got dry, but this soap seems to have little effect on their moisture level at all. I’ve also switched to a natural soap instead of shower gel and the result has been incredible. Apparently shower gels leave a kind of film that dries the skin. I didn’t believe it but thought I’d try a soap bar for environmental reasons if nothing else - and it actually worked amazingly.

Thanks my lovely but with my sensitive skin and the reaction to the Asda "sensitive" after 2 washes I really am reluctant to try any others, I was crying with the pain, swollen, weeping and bright red so their soap can't be as sensitive as it may lead you to believe, can you get it online though? It may help Bruce's hands and his skin isn't anywhere near as sensitive as mine! xx

 

[Inka]

Thanks my lovely but with my sensitive skin and the reaction to the Asda "sensitive" after 2 washes I really am reluctant to try any others, I was crying with the pain, swollen, weeping and bright red so their soap can't be as sensitive as it may lead you to believe, can you get it online though? It may help Bruce's hands and his skin isn't anywhere near as sensitive as mine! xx

Awww, that’s completely understandable you don’t want to risk a change. X

Yes, I buy mine online. I’ve tried various similar ones but the ones I have now are by Faith In Nature. I got them online from Superdrug but have seen them at Boots and other places too. They need a soap dish to let them drain off excess water after use rather than sitting in a pool of it on the basin as they’re a little softer than usual soaps when wet, but they’ve basically reduced my hand cream use from multiple times a day to once or twice.

 

[grovesy]

Thanks my lovely but with my sensitive skin and the reaction to the Asda "sensitive" after 2 washes I really am reluctant to try any others, I was crying with the pain, swollen, weeping and bright red so their soap can't be as sensitive as it may lead you to believe, can you get it online though? It may help Bruce's hands and his skin isn't anywhere near as sensitive as mine! xx

Most sensitive and hypo allergenic products, take out the most common ingredients that are known to cause irritation.

 

[Kaylz]

@Inka it was a complete nightmare and took days to feel any better and about 2 weeks to heal because I was still constantly in water

I'll have a look at Superdrug as that's where I usually get my Dove as I have a health & beauty card so free delivery on orders over £10 lol
xx