Thanks all for your advice/input with this. I've stopped the atorvastatin (you never know) TIND, if that is what this is, socks. My neurologist wasn't much help except for ruling things out and in a letter has said BG at 40 is not good control!! GP it is then!
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Any advice/help appreciated ? Treatment induced neuropathy
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TIND?
Treatment induced neuropathy of diabetes and I meant to say, it socks, not socks!!
Sorry, "Sucks" Tired, not much sleep with these legs and feet!!
Thanks, I sometimes wonder about meds. In some cases, like metformin and statins, they appear to have a desirable effect on a population at the expense of side effects on some people who take them. But no one is quite sure what they do. Others like the weight loss drugs have a specific target. In both cases they affect complex processes in the body or brain which are already dysregulated in some way by the patient's medical condition or conditions.
My wife recently had an 'uncertain' cardiovascular event. She was a patient in three different departments in two different hospitals and came home with three sets of medications to take. A little research showed there were duplications and triplications (different names, same targets). Down to three or four now after follow up questioning by my wife.
I suppose HCPs can't rely on their patients to change their diets and lifestyles so they prescribe meds according to 'precautionary principles'. In other words they feel they cannot rely on us to take responsibility for own health and therefore have to provide what treatments they can. Arguably this is the wrong way round.
Just a thought.
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Totally agree. . At the beginning of the year I saw a diabetc specialist nurse who added atorvastatin and lingaliptin to the diabetic medication I was already on, I was OK at first bu then took control of my blood glucose within 6 months which was great, BUT since then had numbness, pain, weakness all at once in my legs and feet. Thought doing the right thing was a good thing. Now, not so sure the extra meds helped but hindered!
Leadinglights
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I was getting dreadful pains in my shoulders and a friend mentioned that he had something similar and had stopped taking the statin he was on and the pain went away. I stopped taking mine for about a month and it made no difference but my problem was arthritis and rotator cuff issue.
My other half also has stopped taking the ones he was on as was suffering leg pain and he is a lot better, his cholesterol is low anyway. The doctor wanted him to try an alternative but the side effect sounded potentially just a bad if not worse
silentsquirrel
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TIND, "treatment" can include rigorous diet, not just insulin or oral meds - this is why it is not recommended to try to reduce BGs rapidly over a short period of time. It isn't the meds that cause the damage to nerves, but the rapid decrease in BGs.
Can I ask how long after stopping did your other half's pain resolve.
Seems there is "drug induced neuropathy of diabetes" and statins are just one the drugs that can cause these problems! I never knew, only heard about rapid bg drop.
Leadinglights
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A f/ew weeks for the pain but he had lost strength and it took a few months for that to improve. He of course is contending with the usual aches and pains of age being 78 and also needing vit B12 injections.
Bless him. I've got weakness, just seems to be one thing after another! Hope he and you are doing OK. Think it could be a waiting game for me! Hoping pregabalin might help when the dose has been increased. Just want to get back to work!
@silentsquirrel
For my information, has the rapid decrease in BGs been well documented?
The NHS Pathway to Remission weight loss programme can reduce BG rapidly, back to normal in 7 days according to Prof Taylor's research. Have any problems been reported, or do the acceptance criteria idntify those at risk?
Fortunately the optician's new scanner showed the blood vessels in my eyes are in good order!
silentsquirrel
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I should probably have said rapid decrease in HbA1c rather than BGs.
I mentioned alpha lipoic acid to my GP and she had never heard of it, but I am in the UK!
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Yes, it’s often identified when the BG reduction is brought about by commencing insulin therapy. TIDN / TIND used to be called ‘Insulin Neuritis’, but the terminology has been changed (I think because the phenomenon has also been observed when rapid BG reduction has been bought about by other means).
Insulin neuritis or treatment-induced diabetic neuropathy
Treatment-induced diabetic neuropathy (TIDN), previously known as insulin neuritis, is a type of acute neuritis affecting diabetic
www.elsevier.es
And
Treatment induced neuropathy of diabetes - PubMed
TIND is more common than previously suspected. The number of cases reported over the past 10 years is much greater than historical literature predicted. Increased attention to target glucose control as a physician metric could suggest a possible explanation for the increased in TIND cases...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
“TIND is associated with a decrease in the glycosylated hemoglobin A1C in individuals with longstanding hyperglycemia. TIND is more common in individuals with type 1 diabetes, but can occur in anyone with diabetes through the use of insulin, oral hypoglycemic medications or diet control.”
I'm pretty sure mine was due to hypoglycemic meds (and increasing my insulin dosage) all done after seeing my diabetic nurse specialist. I was also prescribed atorvastatin. All this was in Jan, within 3 months my hba1c had gone from 80 (12.5) to 53 (8.5) I am now on pregabalin and doc just increased my dose. Has anyone took pregabalin? Is so, Can I ask, what dose and how long after starting it did you get relief? TiA
Not sure if this is any help, especially as it is second hand.
But on the off chance it is new to anyone ...
My climbing partner has been experiencing pins and needles, etc in his feet for some time. He has not been diagnosed with diabetes although his HBA1c is consistently 45 for a number of years. With the long term pre-diabetes, the docs have come to the conclusion that his pins and needles may well be neuropathy.
He found that it was worst at night. He could usually get to sleep ok but if he woke in the night, it kept him awake. The consultant he spoke to explained that this is likely to be because his feet were colder when he woke and recommended bed socks. These were poo-pooed in favour of an electric blanket with "zones" that can be selectively heated. Since using it, the night time issues have significantly decreased.
So, the insight for me (which you may all know) is that neuropathy is worse in cold feet so keep them warm.
(Same may be true for hands, faces, etc.)
But on the off chance it is new to anyone ...
My climbing partner has been experiencing pins and needles, etc in his feet for some time. He has not been diagnosed with diabetes although his HBA1c is consistently 45 for a number of years. With the long term pre-diabetes, the docs have come to the conclusion that his pins and needles may well be neuropathy.
He found that it was worst at night. He could usually get to sleep ok but if he woke in the night, it kept him awake. The consultant he spoke to explained that this is likely to be because his feet were colder when he woke and recommended bed socks. These were poo-pooed in favour of an electric blanket with "zones" that can be selectively heated. Since using it, the night time issues have significantly decreased.
So, the insight for me (which you may all know) is that neuropathy is worse in cold feet so keep them warm.
(Same may be true for hands, faces, etc.)
silver minion
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The pins and needles in my feet were quite bad a few months ago but has definitely improved recently. Still on the same medication so the only change is BG levels are much lower now with less spikes. Still keeping to medium/low carb levels.
I also found it much worse at night and needed to wear clothing on my legs and feet, socks and leggings or pj's. Can't add warmer bedding as hubby is already a biological BTU generator. Great for warming my cold feet on too.
I also found it much worse at night and needed to wear clothing on my legs and feet, socks and leggings or pj's. Can't add warmer bedding as hubby is already a biological BTU generator. Great for warming my cold feet on too.
What medication are you on? Did you have any other symptoms apart from the pins and needles in your feet? Mine are driving me crazy, struggling to walk!
silver minion
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I am on 2000mg Metformin and 160mg Gliclazide per day. Split between morning and evening doses.
I do get some numbness but not very often now and used to get sharp stabbing pains in the balls of my feet and ankles. These pains seem to have stopped. My legs are mostly OK but I do have arthritic knees so they do get stiff after sitting a while. I have found regular tai Chi is helping my general mobility and flexibility over several months.
Watching me stumble out of bed during the night can be entertaining as I try to get my feet and legs to work in a co-ordinated fashion. Luckily I can lean against the bed if I need to.
Not taking any medication for neuropathy as I don't think it is severe enough to impact my life significantly.
I hope that your neuropathy improves soon and your mobility gets better.