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Absolutely horrified and terrified

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What I have not got to grips with is the amount of carbs I can have, both on a daily basis and per meal. For example, I might have 2 slices of wholemeal or granary toast for breakfast. Is that too much? Is that my entire daily carb limit? I have never been sure. If I have a curry takeaway, I order a portion of rice but only eat a quarter of it per meal and save the rest into 3 quarters and freeze them for further meals
The right amount of carbs for you is what your body can process using the insulin that is available from your pancreas. Your testing before and 2 hours after meals will help you make this decision. If you kept a log of the carbs you are eating (weighing stuff and reading labels carefully to get the correct figures) alongside the BG readings you have this will show you how your body is coping with the amounts of carbs you are eating. You can then decide on an appropriate amount for each meal, and as @Leadinglights has said your tolerance may change through the day. I know mine does.

It would be worth avoiding take aways as they are often full of hidden carbs and sauces are loaded with sugars. The fat content also confuses things. As a T1 I deliver my insulin for each meal and am aware of how different meals need this delivered in different ways. I never got to grips with take aways and just don’t bother with them now.

From my glucose readings I chose to reduce my carbs per meal in order to reduce the size of post meal spikes in my glucose levels. I have found that we have more variety in our meals and are used to the meals of this size (30g carbs per meal). This is however a target and we certainly don’t hit it all the time. Yesterday my meals went from 35g/14g/62g (a meal out).

Find out what works for you, and adjust as necessary.
 
Thank you. There is still so much I don't understand about carbs. My BS monitor arrived at about 7.30 this evening. I tested at 8.00pm, before I had dinner. Was horrified to see the level was 13.5!

I had eaten a granary bread sandwich for lunch with an instant Bachelors mushroom soup at 2.00pm and an apple at about 5.00pm. How could that combination cause my BS to be so high so long afterwards? I really don't understand.
Bought a diabetes cookbook from Amazon which also arrived today. Slightly disappointed to see that it contained meat, fish and veg recipes, which I can and do cook anyway but does not mention what you can have with it to give you a sense of having actually eaten a meal which sticks to your ribs e.g. a leg of lamb with herbs and garlic. I wouldn't expect carbs in that but equally, I wouldn't eat lamb on its own - so what could I have with it? It doesn't mention that!
 
Bought a diabetes cookbook from Amazon which also arrived today. Slightly disappointed to see that it contained meat, fish and veg recipes, which I can and do cook anyway but does not mention what you can have with it to give you a sense of having actually eaten a meal which sticks to your ribs e.g. a leg of lamb with herbs and garlic. I wouldn't expect carbs in that but equally, I wouldn't eat lamb on its own - so what could I have with it? It doesn't mention that!
When we have lamb we have it with roast vegetables (carrot, peppers, courgette, cherry tomatoes and red onion) and while the rest of the family have roast potatoes I have mashed cauliflower or mashed celeriac (I make chips with celeriac, too).

We often have a chicken chasseur but instead of a portion of rice (58g carb) I have a portion of riced cauliflower (2g carb).
 
Thank you. There is still so much I don't understand about carbs. My BS monitor arrived at about 7.30 this evening. I tested at 8.00pm, before I had dinner. Was horrified to see the level was 13.5!

I had eaten a granary bread sandwich for lunch with an instant Bachelors mushroom soup at 2.00pm and an apple at about 5.00pm. How could that combination cause my BS to be so high so long afterwards? I really don't understand.
Bought a diabetes cookbook from Amazon which also arrived today. Slightly disappointed to see that it contained meat, fish and veg recipes, which I can and do cook anyway but does not mention what you can have with it to give you a sense of having actually eaten a meal which sticks to your ribs e.g. a leg of lamb with herbs and garlic. I wouldn't expect carbs in that but equally, I wouldn't eat lamb on its own - so what could I have with it? It doesn't mention that!
As it is the first time you tested you can't really draw any conclusions but certainly the food you had was quite high in carbs.
It is important to test immediately before you eat and then after 2 hours to see the effect of your meal, if the increase is no more than 3mmol/l then it is OK, more than that it is too carb heavy. Your aim will be to be 4-7mmol/l before meals and no more than 8-8.5mmol/l 2 hours after.
Accompaniments to the meals in your book can be any vegetables except potatoes, parsnips, sweet potatoes other than very small portions and salads, coleslaw. Green veg are the lowest carb, broccoli, cabbage, green beans, spinach, courgettes, aubergines, peppers, but carrots, peas, are a bit higher but still ok.
 
As it is the first time you tested you can't really draw any conclusions but certainly the food you had was quite high in carbs.
It is important to test immediately before you eat and then after 2 hours to see the effect of your meal, if the increase is no more than 3mmol/l then it is OK, more than that it is too carb heavy. Your aim will be to be 4-7mmol/l before meals and no more than 8-8.5mmol/l 2 hours after.
Accompaniments to the meals in your book can be any vegetables except potatoes, parsnips, sweet potatoes other than very small portions and salads, coleslaw. Green veg are the lowest carb, broccoli, cabbage, green beans, spinach, courgettes, aubergines, peppers, but carrots, peas, are a bit higher but still ok.
Is 2 slices of granary bread a lot of carb? Are sandwiches not allowed any more?
 
Is 2 slices of granary bread a lot of carb?
My guess is that 2 slices is between 35g and 40g depending on whether it was medium or thick sliced, so yes. However, no one's going to tell you that you're not allowed to have a sandwich (or anything else, for that matter) but if you want to go
low carb then 35-40g is close to a third of the 130g per day that many of us try and stick to.

My personal goal is 30g for breakfast, for lunch and for dinner, leaving 40g for snacking. It doesn't always work out that precisely but I do manage to stick to 130g per day most days.
 
Is 2 slices of granary bread a lot of carb? Are sandwiches not allowed any more?
Certainly with 2 slices of bread it may be too much but you will only know by testing, for some people it may be OK for others not. A medium slice 33g of bread would be about 16g carb so 2 slices in a sandwich would be 32g, with a low carb filling it may be OK for you.
If I have a sandwich when out and there is nothing else then I leave the crusts.
 
Thank you. There is still so much I don't understand about carbs. My BS monitor arrived at about 7.30 this evening. I tested at 8.00pm, before I had dinner. Was horrified to see the level was 13.5!

I had eaten a granary bread sandwich for lunch with an instant Bachelors mushroom soup at 2.00pm and an apple at about 5.00pm. How could that combination cause my BS to be so high so long afterwards? I really don't understand.
Bought a diabetes cookbook from Amazon which also arrived today. Slightly disappointed to see that it contained meat, fish and veg recipes, which I can and do cook anyway but does not mention what you can have with it to give you a sense of having actually eaten a meal which sticks to your ribs e.g. a leg of lamb with herbs and garlic. I wouldn't expect carbs in that but equally, I wouldn't eat lamb on its own - so what could I have with it? It doesn't mention that!
You had grain in the bread, and the soup was probably thickened with some sort of starch, and apples contain fructose - it all adds up.
There are a lot of low carb veges, swede and cauliflower are useful, but there are a lot more under the 10% limit I set myself carrots, onions, sweet peppers, leek, bamboo shoots, celeriac, cabbage, green beans, aubergine, avocado, tomatoes, sprouts, courgette, mushrooms - I made a little booklet listing lots of options to carry to the supermarket.
Most fruits called a berry are low carb, blueberries are the highest, but there are quite a few options in frozen mixtures and single types both fresh and frozen which I buy regularly.
 
You had grain in the bread, and the soup was probably thickened with some sort of starch, and apples contain fructose - it all adds up.
There are a lot of low carb veges, swede and cauliflower are useful, but there are a lot more under the 10% limit I set myself carrots, onions, sweet peppers, leek, bamboo shoots, celeriac, cabbage, green beans, aubergine, avocado, tomatoes, sprouts, courgette, mushrooms - I made a little booklet listing lots of options to carry to the supermarket.
Most fruits called a berry are low carb, blueberries are the highest, but there are quite a few options in frozen mixtures and single types both fresh and frozen which I buy regularly.
Thanks. Very useful information you have given me.
 
Afternoon all. Used my monitor this morning after I got up and was shocked to see a level of 17.5, after a night's sleep and before eating anything. Had breakfast of coffee with milk and half a teaspoon of Xylitol, with a small bowl of fruit and fibre and milk - level 2 hours later was 20.5!
I feel scared to eat anything going forward in case it pushes it up even further. I have taken my first Metformin dose this morning as well. Was thinking of bacon with scrambled egg for lunch. Should I not eat ANYTHING until the BS level goes down further?
 
Afternoon all. Used my monitor this morning after I got up and was shocked to see a level of 17.5, after a night's sleep and before eating anything. Had breakfast of coffee with milk and half a teaspoon of Xylitol, with a small bowl of fruit and fibre and milk - level 2 hours later was 20.5!
I feel scared to eat anything going forward in case it pushes it up even further. I have taken my first Metformin dose this morning as well. Was thinking of bacon with scrambled egg for lunch. Should I not eat ANYTHING until the BS level goes down further?
Fruit & Fibre is high carb - even a 40g portion is 28g carbohydrate, plus the carbs in the milk. Most of us avoid breakfast cereals for that very reason. Bacon & eggs, on the other hand, has barely any carbs.

Have you started looking closely at the nutrition panels on food packaging as that will tell you how many carbs things contain?
 
Fruit & Fibre is high carb - even a 40g portion is 28g carbohydrate, plus the carbs in the milk. Most of us avoid breakfast cereals for that very reason. Bacon & eggs, on the other hand, has barely any carbs.

Have you started looking closely at the nutrition panels on food packaging as that will tell you how many carbs things contain?
 
I looked at the carbs on the Fruit and Fibre and didn't think it was that high. This is the problem - how much carb is high for one meal? I thought the F&F was the equivalent of 1.5 slices of wholemeal bread.
I don't think the initial Diabetes presentation I went to on first diagnosis was very clear about quantities. "A little bit of rice/pasta/potato" is open to interpretation for example.
 
I looked at the carbs on the Fruit and Fibre and didn't think it was that high. This is the problem - how much carb is high for one meal? I thought the F&F was the equivalent of 1.5 slices of wholemeal bread.
I don't think the initial Diabetes presentation I went to on first diagnosis was very clear about quantities. "A little bit of rice/pasta/potato" is open to interpretation for example.
Unfortunately there's no simple answer and it's only by testing that we can see what works for us as individuals. Some have no problem with grains, others do. I'm always higher than my post-meal average 2 hours after a sandwich, for example, despite using GF bread (which is lower carb), but a single Weetabix for breakfast, with a berry mix and a dollop of Greek yogurt, doesn't push me as high.

The rice, pasta and potato that were mentioned in your Diabetes presentation are all high carb so I avoid them by having riced cauliflower instead of rice, a non-grain pasta instead of a durum wheat pasta and mashed cauliflower, mashed celeriac or celeriac chips instead of potatoes. As you'll see from my signature I was as high as you when diagnosed but by cutting out some things (lots, actually), cutting back on others, making swaps and going low carb I managed to get back into normal range. Others have done the same from 3 figures.

Have you started a food diary, recording your pre-meal and post-meal readings alongside what you ate?
 
With an hba1c at the level yours is you almost certainly have a large degree of insulin resistance (ie it’s not doing its job very well despite likely having a good amount being made). Insulin is made in response to glucose levels rising. Having constant high levels of insulin circulating adds to the amount of resistance to it (you become desensitised as it were). Also type 2 often comes along with non alcoholic fatty liver which means regulation of how much glucose the liver adds to blood becomes dysregulated. One way this often shows up is in high morning fasted readings.

As you address the problem these things can and will improve. Maybe even to the level they become normal so long as you continue your management strategies but at the very least a good improvement.

An awful lot of us find that lowering carbs is key to reducing glucose and lowering circulating insulin to more normal levels and becoming more sensitive to it again.

So that means ALL grains like cereal, breads, pasta, pastry etc (brown, wholemeal, whole grain etc have almost identical carbs even if they have a little more fibre), starchy veg like potatoes, sweet potatoes, parsnips and any sugars need reducing. Fruit can be high carb so best to stick with a few berries or a little melon maybe. It also has fructose which a meter can’t record so look ok on the face of it but, in excess, can add to fatty livers as described above. Pulses like beans and peas have variable effects. They aren’t particularly low carb but some do ok with them.

130g a day is the recommended maximum. Many of us with high levels of insulin resistance need to have far fewer than this. Anything down to 20g a day for some. Testing will tell you.

Now that’s quite daunting for some so a step at a time is best. Some find focusing on a meal at a time (testing before and 2 hrs later for a 2mmol or lower rise ideally to mimic a non diabetic response). Others replace one food type at a time. Getting used to that then making the next change so it’s not overwhelming. Also testing and learning to read labels helps a lot. Look for food with a low carbs per 100g unless you’re only having tiny amounts.(eg under 10g carbs per 100g of product, under 5 even better). For type 2 pretty much ignore the “of which sugars” bit. It’s the carbs that matter. At least for a week or two count how many you eat at each meal and each day to get an idea where you are and which choices are better for your body.

Finding alternatives helps. Using vegetables instead of rice or pasta etc and having more of the protein elements on the plate help even if it looks a bit different. Experimenting with nut flours instead of grain. Using natural sweeteners (without maltodextrin found in many supermarket type granulated options) like stevia, erythritol, xylitol or monk fruit. Not being afraid of natural unprocessed fats is key. Full fat dairy has been proven in recent years to have great health benefits provided it’s not in ultra processed forms and doesn’t have added sugars. Eggs can be used many different ways. Proteins and fats keep us full far longer than carbs do and won’t raise glucose levels in anything like the same way. You don’t need to starve or feel hungry and you need to fuel yourself still. Google recipes with search terms like “low carb shepards pie” or “keto lasagne” for loads of ideas.

This page give free general advice about low carb eating. https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb The same website has lots of recipes, guides, visuals and links to medical research papers. They do have a paid menu option but it’s totally voluntary and unnecessary if you don’t want that.
 
I found it useful to look upon carbs being something that although we suggest no more than 130g per day it is better to think of it as being 'what can MY body tolerate at any one meal' . The higher your starting pre meal blood glucose is the harder it will be for your pancreas to produce enough insulin to both deal with that high level of glucose as well as adding to it with a high carb meal.
So for example if your premeal level is 10mmol/l you might cope with 30g carb in one meal but if your stating level is in the high teens then it may not do as well so your better choice would be say eggs and bacon rather than high carb cereals.
I only have in the region of 70g per day carbs so tend to have 15-20g at breakfast and lunch, maybe 25g at dinner and the rest for drinks. I don't have snacks.
But if you are aiming at more like 130g per day then you will be able to go a bit more for each meal.
 
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Try not to be alarmed by the high BG numbers you are seeing @Halfhybrid - before you had a meter they would have been the same, but you wouldn’t have had the number to see to worry about. Also don’t try to plunge right down from the higher levels you’ve been running at straight down to your ultimate target of 4-8.5. The human body is incredibly resilient. And lurching from consistently high numbers to much lower glucose levels can actually freak the body out a bit, and even cause some short term damage in some cases. It’s gentler on the system to let things taper down more gradually.

In terms of adjusting your menu, it can also help to make a series of stepwise gradual changes, rather than go ‘all or nothing’.

As others are suggesting, keeping a food diary to give you a starting point, then reducing portion sizes incrementally a step at a time (eg ditch the crisps… halve the lager frequency… one apple not two… one slice of bread or perhaps a wrap or pitta not a two slice sarnie…) Gradually make changes that eventually add up over time.

Aiming to reduce the ‘meal rise’ (difference between before and after readings) rather than freaking out at the actual numbers - so that in a sense, 10.4 before to 12.5 or 13 at 2hrs is ‘good’…and eventually will be 8.5 before to 10 after… and then 6 to 8.5…

Keep going!
 
I looked at the carbs on the Fruit and Fibre and didn't think it was that high. This is the problem - how much carb is high for one meal? I thought the F&F was the equivalent of 1.5 slices of wholemeal bread.
I don't think the initial Diabetes presentation I went to on first diagnosis was very clear about quantities. "A little bit of rice/pasta/potato" is open to interpretation for example.
Fruit and Fibre is almost 70% carbohydrate - it should say so on the packet - but the ingredients are grain and dried fruit which are things I avoid on a daily basis.
I also avoid even 'a little bit' of other high carb foods, as they are not necessary and I can then eat a fair bit of low carb foods which are far tastier and bring more variety into my diet - I mean menu, as I don't restrict amounts of stir fry or low carb content vege mixtures, as I can't really over eat them when eating adequate amounts of proteins.
When I was diagnosed I went low carb at once, as I had done Atkins before and I had no fear of the regime - it would be prudent to reduce levels more slowly, of course. As you can test your blood glucose levels now, altering what you chose to eat and making adjustments should show reductions - assuming being an ordinary type 2. If it doesn't happen then it should raise a suspicion that something more interesting as the root cause, as there are various other options within type 2, as well as other types of diabetes.
 
Fruit and Fibre is almost 70% carbohydrate - it should say so on the packet - but the ingredients are grain and dried fruit which are things I avoid on a daily basis.
I also avoid even 'a little bit' of other high carb foods, as they are not necessary and I can then eat a fair bit of low carb foods which are far tastier and bring more variety into my diet - I mean menu, as I don't restrict amounts of stir fry or low carb content vege mixtures, as I can't really over eat them when eating adequate amounts of proteins.
When I was diagnosed I went low carb at once, as I had done Atkins before and I had no fear of the regime - it would be prudent to reduce levels more slowly, of course. As you can test your blood glucose levels now, altering what you chose to eat and making adjustments should show reductions - assuming being an ordinary type 2. If it doesn't happen then it should raise a suspicion that something more interesting as the root cause, as there are various other options within type 2, as well as other types of diabetes.
I used to have bulgur wheat quite a bit but haven't had in a while, I decided to look up the carbs and found this:
“In 100 grams of dry bulgur wheat, there is approximately 76g of total carbohydrates. Bulgur wheat is therefore a great food to eat on a low carb diet as it is highly nutritious." I have to say I was gobsmacked as it seems that is the opposite of what would be wise for a low carb food.
Now it might be that once cooked the portion you would have would not be that bad but it gives the wrong impression that it is OK to me. I shall have to experiment./
 
I don't think people realise how important diet is in managing blood glucose levels partly because it is not emphasised enough when they are first diagnosed and of course people think that metformin is the magic bullet.

It’s also important to remember that medication is not a Bad Thing.

Not everyone is in a position to be able to manage on diet alone, and there should be no shame in using a combination of appropriate meds balanced with an adjusted menu to aim for improved glucose outcomes.

Not everyone will find a low carb approach appropriate, appealing, sustainable, or even effective (we have members who simply do not get the expected BG changes on low carb).

We are all on a journey trying to find our own way through the various options and choices available to improve our diabetes management. And medication, as advised by a person’s medically qualified Doctor or nurse, can be a valid and important part of that.
 
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