Statins

[Jayciid]

What is the general consensus on here regarding these meds?

Gp wants me on them as well as metformin. Read some dodgy things (including the side effects leaflet in the box!) which says they can cause high blood sugar and diabetes.

When I put this to the GP he said something a long the lines of 'the pros outweigh the cons, if they do increase blood sugar then the metformin is there to treat that anyway'.

Obviously there is long term stuff which diabetics need to guard against, but surely keeping blood sugar down is very much the primary aim...

Had anybody else been prescribed a statin ? If so how do you find it ? Feeling confused

 

[Diabeticliberty]

I personally take Atorvastatin after being originally prescribed Simvastatin but taken off them due to my GP receiving adverse advice about them. Both medications have side effects listed but I have never experienced any from either. There seems to be an increasing groundswell of opinion building against statins and I suppose it is individual choice whether to follow your doctor's advice and take them. My iown cholesterol was not particularly high but my doctor suggested them in light of my diabetes. Neither I, nor anybody else can tell you that you should or should nit take them. I am sorry if I appear non advisory and non commital but it really is your own choice to make

 

[Lindarose]

I agree Jayciid. There's a lot of information out there and it can be quite difficult to decide. Personally I won't take a statin but do worry about whether thats the right thing. A lot depends on the ratios and breakdown of your total cholesterol rather than the single number. There's lots of info out there which may help you reach your own decision.

 

[Northerner]

I was prescribed statins when diagnosed, but suffered side effects (muscle cramps, nausea - very common). I decided to read up a bit about them and concluded that they weren't worth it, for me. My cholesterol, whilst above the 'magic' 4.0 total that GPs and nurses like to see for people with diabetes, so they can tick off a box and earn some money, was not high, and I have a good ratio of 'good' HDL to 'bad' LDL. I also discovered that, for every 100 people taking statins they might prevent a cardio vascular event, like a heart attack, in THREE of those 100 people - for the rest they wouldn't make any difference but still carry the risks of side-effects. They are powerful drugs that inhibit the liver from producing cholesterol. Cholesterol is needed by every cell in the body - it's actually essential to life! When I was on statins my total cholesterol dropped to 2.3 and no-one would tell me how low it might go before it might be considered dangerous. So, I stopped taking them and my consultant has since been fine with my cholesterol levels, even though they are usually mid-4s total, but with an excellent HDL/LDL split.

You might like to read an excellent book which investigates this whole cholesterol business - The Great Cholesterol Con by Dr Malcolm Kendrick and draw your own conclusions.🙄

I'm certainly not saying that statins shouldn't be taken by everyone, just that if your levels are fine and you have a good split then you need to weigh the potential advantages and risks.

 

[mikeyB]

You shouldn't be looking for a general consensus, this is about you. And side effects aren't compulsory. Follow your doctors advice, he's the one with all your info. Nobody here knows your cholesterol level, so don't go against your doctors advice because of anything we say.

My story is the same as DLs, except I still take Simvastatin. I've never had any side effects, either. Most people don't.

You can only reduce your cholesterol by dieting by a maximum of 10 %, the rest is made in your body, which is what the tablets affect.

Please don't go searching on the Internet for every single side effect that folk might have had taking statins, you can find almost as much info on the side effects of drinking London tap water.

The figures quoted by Northerner relate to the general population. The jury's still out on whether these are actually beneficial in diabetics.

 

[malturn]

What is the general consensus on here regarding these meds?

Gp wants me on them as well as metformin. Read some dodgy things (including the side effects leaflet in the box!) which says they can cause high blood sugar and diabetes.

When I put this to the GP he said something a long the lines of 'the pros outweigh the cons, if they do increase blood sugar then the metformin is there to treat that anyway'.

Obviously there is long term stuff which diabetics need to guard against, but surely keeping blood sugar down is very much the primary aim...

Had anybody else been prescribed a statin ? If so how do you find it ? Feeling confused

Hi I was on statins for a number of years until I started getting muscle cramps, and after listening to a specialist from the Queens medical center in Nottingham give a talk on the local radio, I stopped taking them. About 4 years ago I was diagnosed with angina and aortic stenosis which led to me having a minor heart attack?? The cardiac specialists at the Trent Cardiac unit then put me onto Fenofibrate which does more or less the same thing only without the side effects. This has kept my cholesterol levels pretty steady at around 4.3 ever since.

 

[mikeyB]

And Northerner, the thought occurs to me that preventing cardiac events in 3 out of 100 people is a pretty good strike rate. It's certainly higher than the deaths prevented by breast cancer screening, or, say, tetanus vaccination.

In the right patients, if there are no side effects, they work well. They aren't a panacea, though, and certainly shouldn't be handed out with the cornflakes.

 

[grovesy]

For me personally I have tried them and had the aches and pains, on different ones, I felt they were limiting my mobility so I don't take!

 

[Northerner]

And Northerner, the thought occurs to me that preventing cardiac events in 3 out of 100 people is a pretty good strike rate. It's certainly higher than the deaths prevented by breast cancer screening, or, say, tetanus vaccination.

In the right patients, if there are no side effects, they work well. They aren't a panacea, though, and certainly shouldn't be handed out with the cornflakes.

Indeed. My point is though that in my particular case I am much more likely to be one of the remaining 97 since my ratio is excellent and I am at very low risk of CVD (as stated by my Cardiac consultant), but often prescribing is driven on the cruder measure of getting the total below 4. It needs to be an informed decision to take them, as with all these things. The medical community are divided so one GP might recommend them whereas another wouldn't, it's not clear cut. The recent push to prescribe statins to ALL over-40s, or at least those with a lower CVD risk level than previously has been resisted by large sectors of the medical profession. I'm not anti-statin, but I am against indiscriminate over-medicalisation, particularly with powerful medications that aren't completely understood.

 

[Haggar]

"...Obviously there is long term stuff which diabetics need to guard against, but surely keeping blood sugar down is very much the primary aim...

Had anybody else been prescribed a statin ? If so how do you find it ? Feeling confused[/QUOTE]

My father was diagnosed with late onset T1 6 years ago and has also been on statins all that time as he has inherited naturally high cholesterol. They haven't affected his blood sugars. Your GP and diabetes team should be also to advise on this but I cant imagine they would have prescribed them if they would have had such adverse effects on blood sugar given the severe health implications of high blood sugar.

As for other side effects, my father tends to go with the flow and doesn't look into these things so just takes them but I do look into these things! What he noticed a couple of years ago was he was getting tired, didn't have much energy and was sore (muscles-wise). Now, one could put that down to age (and many other factors) but I did some research and found that statins can leave sore muscles and deplete levels of Coenzyme Q10 which also tends to be lower in those with diabetes. It is linked to energy and cell health (helps prevent muscle breakdown) so I suggested he tries taking them for a few months to see if it makes a difference. They really did! He also had ridiculously high blood pressure and the coq10 helped reduce that too. I prefer natural support where possible and we found soy lethchin has dramatically helped reduce his cholesterol. He doesn't have to rely on statins so much nor take a high dosage as he had to to begin with, as I mentioned his levels are naturally stupidly high.So yes, in sum to answer your questions - no effect on blood sugar, other effects were fatigue and soreness, supplements he now takes instead for cholesterol are soy letchin and coq10 to counteract the depletion of coenzyme q10.

I hope this helps!

 

[Haggar]

For me personally I have tried them and had the aches and pains, on different ones, I felt they were limiting my mobility so I don't take!

Grovesy - see what I wrote about the alternative and coq10.

 

[Jayciid]

Clearly it's personal and idiosyncratic, with side effects dictating people's choices.

My question was more for a consensus on whether they raise blood sugar ? It sounds like a lot of mixed experiences but not many reports of BG spikes (which is what I'm concerned with at this stage)?

J

 

[Northerner]

Clearly it's personal and idiosyncratic, with side effects dictating people's choices.

My question was more for a consensus on whether they raise blood sugar ? It sounds like a lot of mixed experiences but not many reports of BG spikes (which is what I'm concerned with at this stage)?

J

I would say that, anecdotally, I haven't read here over the years about people complaining that they elevate blood sugar levels particularly, but that may be because they are often prescribed at diagnosis, so any elevation they might contribute to is masked. There is some evidence that they might actually contribute to the development of Type 2 (in those who don't already have it!) by increasing insulin resistance and interfering with insulin production:

http://www.webmd.com/diabetes/news/20150304/statins-linked-to-raised-risk-of-type-2-diabetes

 

[Jonsi]

Some years ago I was prescribed Atorvastatin and was dreadful on them. Tiredness, muscle weakness to actually reaching the point where it was all I could do to crawl to bed!

Saw my GP who stopped them commenting "they don't suit everyone".

Seemed fair enough to me.

 

[Diabeticliberty]

I would say that, anecdotally, I haven't read here over the years about people complaining that they elevate blood sugar levels particularly, but that may be because they are often prescribed at diagnosis, so any elevation they might contribute to is masked. There is some evidence that they might actually contribute to the development of Type 2 (in those who don't already have it!) by increasing insulin resistance and interfering with insulin production:

http://www.webmd.com/diabetes/news/20150304/statins-linked-to-raised-risk-of-type-2-diabetes

I did not start taking them until after about 20 years of diagnosis of my type 1 diagnosis. At that time as now, I was super analytical even obsessive about controlling my blood sugar levels. I did not experience any elevated blood glucose levels after I started taking them. This however is only my own particular case and I would draw no inference to your own condition

 

[mikeyB]

The problem with that study, Northerner, is that it demonstrates a link - that is in the title. It's an association. What I mean by that, is that the sort of people who need statins are metabolically more likely to develop type 2 diabetes anyway. As you say, there isn't really any evidence that statins raise blood sugars, but again, if it does occur, might be an association. People on low fat diets tend to buy low fat products, which are higher in sugars.

It's a distinctly murky area. Whatever you do or take, be it statin or Benecol, if your cholesterol level and LDL/HDL ratio is fine, carry on as you are. The alternative is taking one of the fibrates if your levels are high. They will do the job, and there is evidence that they reduce the incidence of retinopathy. They come with a shipload of potential side effects as well, and should never ever be combined with a statin.

 

[grovesy]

Grovesy - see what I wrote about the alternative and coq10.

I did try with Co enzyme Q10 and it made no difference!

 

[Northerner]

These days it's becoming increasingly difficult to know what will have a positive, unequivocal benefit and what may cause harm For me, insulin is about the only thing I know helps me for definite! 🙄 If it's a marginal gain or harm 'shown' by a limited study - as much of these things are nowadays - then I'd prefer to let nature take its course. When I asked a GPSI who tried to persuade me that the lower my total cholesterol, the better, he cited a study done on some Northern Chinese tribe who had a low incidence of CVD and low total cholesterol - I'm from Northern England, not China, there probably weren't a lot of people like me in their study 🙄

 

[grovesy]

My now retired Diabetes Nurse told me she was having too many people reporting problems with them to her, to ignore!

 

[jusme]

Jayciid this is what happened to me - I was put on statins that gradually worked up to a very high dose of atorvastatin and yes I did put on weight even though my diet did not change at all, my BGs went up and up and I had to increase my insulin dosage, I had to give them up due to muscle pain etc and the weight dropped of me and my insulin dosage went back to what it was and my diet remained the same. I have refused to take them since.

jusme