Wot no mask?

trophywench

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Some toddler I know would scream the place down - she does whenever her mother has taken her any place she doesn't know, she simply refuses point blank to get out the car or walk (though she is perfectly capable of walking for literally miles and miles) and does the same at eg her grandma's house should her mama dare to park anywhere other than smack outside the front door. Roll on September because the sooner somebody chooses to diagnose her obvious autism, which her mother also refuses to acknowledge - the better both for her and for the whole family.
 

Bloden

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Well you now have to wear one if you visit a Hospital or GP surgery, and my Chiropractor also requires.
I had a hospital appointment last week and was told it wasn’t necessary to wear a mask. The doctor and nurses were PPE’d from head to toe. They had to repeat everything cos I couldn’t understand them!
 

grovesy

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I had a hospital appointment last week and was told it wasn’t necessary to wear a mask. The doctor and nurses were PPE’d from head to toe. They had to repeat everything cos I couldn’t understand them!
Well here in England the Hospital and GP's surgeries have on there websites and on social media the requirement to wear face mask's/coverings.
 

rebrascora

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
I wear a mask in indoor places like the supermarket, local shop and post office parcel collection office. I consider myself very low risk as I live rural and greatly restrict my social interactions but I think it is common courtesy to show consideration for others, particularly shop staff who have been good enough to work through this pandemic despite the increased risk to themselves.... these are some of the people we have been clapping for.... key workers ....and yet people are not willing to take a small step like wearing a face mask for the relatively short time they are in store??
I would like/hope others would show the same consideration for me, although sadly most don't, but I have to uphold my values regardless of what other people do, because otherwise, society has no value.

I can only follow my own conscience and do what I feel is right. I do think that the government advice on masks was awry from the start and a lot of lives might have been saved if masks had been encouraged particularly on public transport in inner cities, from the off and a clearer message on the use of masks for everyone in confined public buildings now would be beneficial.

I also think there is a reticence on the part of British people to wear a mask.... I think it may be a cultural thing..... I think many people feel embarrassed/awkward about it (I felt this myself but my conscience overruled it) and perhaps we are paying the price for this with our very high death toll.

It is not against the law to wear a mask so the only thing which can be stopping people doing so, must be either that they can't be bothered or they feel awkward about it. Neither are valid reasons in my opinion. If the vast majority of people wore masks, then those that didn't might feel awkward and perhaps more inclined to do so.

Just my take on it. :rolleyes:

I shop once a fortnight. My mask hangs from the interior mirror of the car and I have gloves in the car too. Any virus contamination would be gone in that period so I see no problem with using the mask multiple times and it is exposed to sunlight and a dry environment during that time which helps to destroy it, so I feel reasonably confident that I have taken appropriate steps to mitigate my very low risk to others.
 

Kaylz

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
It is not against the law to wear a mask so the only thing which can be stopping people doing so, must be either that they can't be bothered or they feel awkward about it. Neither are valid reasons in my opinion.
there may be very good reasons for someone to feel awkward about having their nose and mouth covered that I wont go into details about but it isn't always what it may look like to others is all I'm saying xx
 

Robin

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Well here in England the Hospital and GP's surgeries have on there websites and on social media the requirement to wear face mask's/coverings.
It’s the advice I was given over the phone. :)
Wales has decided the evidence for masks isn’t strong enough, so hasn’t recommended them, either in hospitals or on public transport. Interestingly, Wales says that if you do choose to wear one, the WHO says it should be three layers thick to do any good, something that has passed the other devolved nations by.
 

grovesy

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Wales has decided the evidence for masks isn’t strong enough, so hasn’t recommended them, either in hospitals or on public transport. Interestingly, Wales says that if you do choose to wear one, the WHO says it should be three layers thick to do any good, something that has passed the other devolved nations by.
WHO advised a couple weeks ago that they recommend the wearing of Surgical Masks for Diabetics.
 

Becka

Well-Known Member
WHO advised a couple weeks ago that they recommend the wearing of Surgical Masks for Diabetics.
Yes, this is their advice:

People 60 years old and over or anyone with pre-existing medical conditions (such as diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, lung disease, or cancer)

Why?
These people should wear a medical mask for protection because they are at a higher risk of becoming seriously ill with the disease and dying.

Incidentally, they do not say a non-medical mask should be three layers, they only say that that design is preferable. It also depends on the fabric used:

WHO is actively studying and encouraging research on the science of masks. New research findings identified the following preferable types of fabrics, number of layers and the composition of a non-medical, fabric mask:

  • an inner layer of absorbent material such as cotton
  • a middle layer of non-woven material such as polypropylene
  • an outer layer of non-absorbent material, such as polyester or polyester blend
The ideal combination of material for non-medical masks should include three layers as follows: 1) an innermost layer of a hydrophilic material (e.g. cotton or cotton blends); 2), an outermost layer made of hydrophobic material (e.g., polypropylene, polyester, or their blends) which may limit external contamination from penetration through to the wearer’s nose and mouth; 3) a middle hydrophobic layer of synthetic non-woven material such as polyproplylene or a cotton layer which may enhance filtration or retain droplets.
A minimum of three layers is required for non-medical masks, depending on the fabric used. The innermost layer of the mask is in contact with the wearer’s face. The outermost layer is exposed to the environment.

Fabric cloths (e.g., nylon blends and 100% polyester) when folded into two layers, provides 2-5 times increased filtration efficiency compared to a single layer of the same cloth, and filtration efficiency increases 2-7 times if it is folded into 4 layers. Masks made of cotton handkerchiefs alone should consist of at least 4 layers, but have achieved only 13% filtration efficiency. Very porous materials, such as gauze, even with multiple layers will not provide sufficient filtration; only 3% filtration efficiency.
 

grovesy

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I am wearing home made masks, but plenty of places are selling medical masks. Boots, Superdrug, and Amazon, that I can think of the top of my head.
 

rebrascora

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Our government has to balance scientific advice with economic effect.... which will also have an impact on health..... these things are not simple black and white decisions. A long period of recession will damage people's health, wealth and wellbeing and the longer we are in lockdown, the more businesses will collapse and unemployment will rise and then crime will also rise too, so there is a lot more to consider than just the current medical risks. Compromise has to be made. I am not saying this government has got it right because I personally think we should have gone into lockdown much sooner and masks should have been made mandatory in enclosed public spaces from the start but this lockdown period cannot continue forever and there will always be individual risk, whenever it is lifted.
 

Bruce Stephens

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
A long period of recession will damage people's health, wealth and wellbeing and the longer we are in lockdown, the more businesses will collapse and unemployment will rise and then crime will also rise too, so there is a lot more to consider than just the current medical risks.
Yes, but it feels like we're relaxing things just enough so that businesses can reopen to lose money while allowing the infection to continue at about current levels.

I'd like to see some signs that the government has considered actions which might control the infection better (perhaps at the cost of having businesses opening a little later).

I'm not sure that would be a good thing to do: maybe it's better to fumble along at ~3000 new cases a day with ~150 deaths until we have a vaccine.

I'd just like some signs that the government has considered suppressing the virus more effectively (like Scotland, NI, and Wales seem to have done; Scotland regularly has days with no Covid-19 deaths). (Maybe we can't do that because we rely on more international travel?)

That is, I'd like to see a 6-8 month plan: where are they trying to get to for September, say, and how do we cope over the winter?
 

everydayupsanddowns

Administrator
Staff member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Yes, this is their advice:

People 60 years old and over or anyone with pre-existing medical conditions (such as diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, lung disease, or cancer)

Why? These people should wear a medical mask for protection because they are at a higher risk of becoming seriously ill with the disease and dying.
And here is the confusion again... repeatedly we are told that the masks confer benefit by reducing SPREAD from an infected person, but here is the WHO saying that it protects the wearer - which many experts I’ve seen commenting say it doesn’t (at least certainly not the surgical and home made types that are being commonly worn) - because they dont stop sufficient airflow and leak around the edges... and because once contaminated they can pass the infection if the wearer adjusts or touches them (which people can’t help themselves doing).

No wonder I am confused!
 

Becka

Well-Known Member
To be fair, Scotland is almost 50 times the size of London but with less than two-thirds the population. Even the main part of the M62 corridor (Merseyside, Greater Manchester, and West Yorkshire) has a population around 12% higher than Scotland yet is around twenty times smaller. The only dense region of Scotland, the central belt, is about the same as the West Midlands metropolitan county.

Simple comparisons between England and Scotland are misleading because of the much greater population density that allows viruses to more easily spread in England. That is not to refute that the Scottish government has acted more effectively, I have not seen anything to definitely say one way or the other.

Probably a better comparison with Scotland would be with the East of England region, being mostly rural and has a sort-of central belt being where it borders London and along the Thames estuary. The population is the same, though Scotland is still a third bigger in size.

Although the government has stopped daily press briefings, they are still producing the slides and the shape of the curve for those two regions seems rather similar.

 

Becka

Well-Known Member
And here is the confusion again... repeatedly we are told that the masks confer benefit by reducing SPREAD from an infected person, but here is the WHO saying that it protects the wearer - which many experts I’ve seen commenting say it doesn’t (at least certainly not the surgical and home made types that are being commonly worn) - because they dont stop sufficient airflow and leak around the edges... and because once contaminated they can pass the infection if the wearer adjusts or touches them (which people can’t help themselves doing).

No wonder I am confused!
Sorry, I am not sure what you are saying? WHO are not saying that non-medical masks protect the wearer, other than in the wider sense that everyone in society gains more protection by everyone in society wearing masks. That is the only purpose for which they recommend them, to stop those unaware they are infected from spreading the virus.

Which is why for those with underlying health conditions, including diabetes, they instead recommend medical masks. i.e. ones specifically designed to protect the wearer like those health and care staff need. P.P.E. But, as far as I am aware, that guidance is not being shared by any of the British governments so is not an issue I have seen any experts discussing. No doubt in large part because the guidance for most people will underlying health conditions have been to shield instead. And there has bene plenty of discussion, at least here, about whether people with diabetes, should be in that group.
 

everydayupsanddowns

Administrator
Staff member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Sorry, I am not sure what you are saying? WHO are not saying that non-medical masks protect the wearer, other than in the wider sense that everyone in society gains more protection by everyone in society wearing masks.
But the quote was

Why? These people should wear a medical mask for protection because they are at a higher risk of becoming seriously ill with the disease and dying.​
Wear them for protection, because you are at higher risk.

I think I needed a better understanding of what was meant by ‘medical’ masks (vs ‘surgical‘ masks)
 
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