won't be doing porridge again.

[Markmids]

DN recommended porridge for breakfast as it's slow release carbs....so this morning I had 40g made with water and just a dash of semi skimmed milk no sugar..
The results.
5.8 fasted
12.7 1hrs
12.2 2hrs
That's very high for me so I think I'll stay with my scrambled egg from now on

 

[Pumper_Sue]

What sort of porridge was it? IE jumbo oats or ready mix cement type? There's a heck of a difference in carb value for scrambled eggs and porridge as well.

 

[Gary Vincent]

I must confess to being a little confused by your numbers, are you quoting mmol/ltr or % ?
As far as I'm led to believe by my GP, 5.8mmol/ltr is fine for a fasting glucose level, I often wake with fasting level of 6.5-7.5mmol/ltr and my HB1ac last counted was 51 which my doctor was delighted with.
As you're T2 like me the need to measure every day is not so critical.
My fasting level is anywhere between 5.5 and 7.5, of course it will spike up after food, can't see how those figures are deemed high?
The insulin released will drag those sugars back down but it doesn't happen quickly so I'm led to believe.
I take Metformin 500mg TDS.

 

[Robin]

Gary, having a high spike in the 12s every day is not good for you. It's not just the overall figure that counts, but what percentage of the time you spend higher than you should be. A lower carb breakfast that keeps you within the recommended 8-9 (or whatever the guideline is) two hours after a meal, is better for your long term prevention of complications.

 

[Markmids]

They were just normal porridge oats sue made by quaker and Gary yes mmol I'm happy being 5.8 and I'm kind of ok with 12.7 after 1 hour but I do prefer to be under 9 after 2 hours...plus I'm not on meds

 

[Lindarose]

Hi Mark. Porridge is my favourite breakfast. Absolutely love it and it really leaves me full until lunchtime. However like you it gives me a real spike usually by about 3 (oddly more of a rise the lower my starting BG)
I've recently bought the jumbo oats which are even more creamy and delicious even though they need stirring on the hob. Mixed results. Some days they arnt too bad but others I'm much higher after 2 hours. Think I should avoid them too but nothing compares!

 

[khskel]

I agree you don't want a spike like that if you can help it. Surely a great argument for T2 testing.

 

[Andy HB]

Agreed, going that high is not ideal.

I'd suggest doing another couple of tries though to see if you get a consistent result. Also, perhaps do a little exercise before eating. That might help as well.

Andy 🙂

P.s. I buy the cheap tesco/sainsburys oats. I find them to be less processed than quaker and more chewy. But that is the way I like them! I also have a suspicion that they are better for my BG as a result.

 

[Northerner]

Part of the problem with having carbs for breakfast is that people tend to be more insulin resistant in the mornings. Jumbo oats should definitely be better as they are much lower GI than the processed 'Oatso Simple' variety. Real oats are also supposed to be good for your cholesterol levels too 🙂

@Gary Vincent post-meal spikes are probably more harmful to your body, particularly the small blood vessels of the eyes and kidneys, than a constant higher, but steadier, level - going from low to high and back again is far more stressful than small fluctuations. The aim should be to be not higher than 2-3 mmol/l two hours after eating, which is why it is important to discover your personal tolerances and adjust your diet choices if need be. There are lots of 'healthy' foods around - and porridge is one of them - but when you have diabetes you have to discover whether they are 'healthy' for you as an individual e.g. fresh orange juice would send your levels rocketing, but a non-diabetic could handle it happily. In my opinion, not learning about the effects of food choices by testing is simply sticking your head in the sand, unfortunately - not saying you are doing this, but it does appear as though you are being misled, and healthcare professionals who say you don't need to test post-meal are ignoring this simple logic

 

[AndBreathe]

DN recommended porridge for breakfast as it's slow release carbs....so this morning I had 40g made with water and just a dash of semi skimmed milk no sugar..
The results.
5.8 fasted
12.7 1hrs
12.2 2hrs
That's very high for me so I think I'll stay with my scrambled egg from now on

Mark - I agree, I wouldn't be at all comfortable being that high after 2 hours.

I am fortunate I have always been able to eat jumbo oats, but I never cook them. I just have the oats, sometimes with half a dozen blueberries, with full fat milk. I tend to add the milk, then leave the concoction for about 10 minutes to soak in a bit. I appreciate I may be just ultra lucky on that, and I don't have oats every morning, but if we're going sailing, and I know I'll be very active and not necessarily able to define my next mealtime, they keep me full for ages. The exercise probably also helps moderate the rises I experience.

If you really enjoyed the oats, maybe try my variant, otherwise, as you suggest, just stick with what you know suits you.

 

[Pumper_Sue]

I must confess to being a little confused by your numbers, are you quoting mmol/ltr or % ?
As far as I'm led to believe by my GP, 5.8mmol/ltr is fine for a fasting glucose level, I often wake with fasting level of 6.5-7.5mmol/ltr and my HB1ac last counted was 51 which my doctor was delighted with.
As you're T2 like me the need to measure every day is not so critical.
My fasting level is anywhere between 5.5 and 7.5, of course it will spike up after food, can't see how those figures are deemed high?
The insulin released will drag those sugars back down but it doesn't happen quickly so I'm led to believe.
I take Metformin 500mg TDS.

If my GP was delighted with results like that Then I would change GP.
Obviously you have been brainwashed into a sense of security regarding the not needing to test everyday.
Perhaps so you can enjoy many years to come do some research into managing your diabetes and ideal numbers to try and achieve 🙂

 

[Stitch147]

I'm so pleased porridge doesn't give me the spike in blood sugars that others get. I love my porridge.

 

[Gary Vincent]

Pumper Sue said:
If my GP was delighted with results like that Then I would change GP.
Obviously you have been brainwashed into a sense of security regarding the not needing to test everyday.
Perhaps so you can enjoy many years to come do some research into managing your diabetes and ideal numbers to try and achieve 🙂


With respect Pumper Sue,
I think my GP will be very interested to hear you think I should dispense with his services, there is absolutely no question of that.
Indeed when I was lower than 5.8mmol/ltr around 3.3, I had sweats giddiness and shakes, this was caused by Gliclazide which I have now stopped taking. I'm not sure how low you think is acceptable, I know 3.3 is just too low for me
Perhaps you have had a bad experience with your GP, I'm not sure, but apart from my GP who I trust implicitly, the entire Diabetes support system has emphasised most strongly the need to NOT repeat NOT in the case of T2 Diabetes to measure too often.
They actually said I did not have to have a glucose meter at all, but I chose to get one and test every morning before food and the stored glucose levels on the software show my average to be in the blue zone which they say is normal too.
I could contend that perhaps you as a T1 Diabetes sufferer have been brainwashed into applying these principles of a T1 Diabetes sufferer across the board to those of us who are Type 2 I don't know.
I'm not an expert but to date, my hospital consultant, GP , the Diabetes community locally and my Roche Glucose tester all suggest the levels at which my diabetes is managed as a T2 sufferer are normal.
Indeed the consultant too, said HB1Ac of 51 is in the normal range.
Whilst I appreciate your comments, I think you should exercise perhaps a little more tact in your remarks, there may be others who unlike me, may draw wrong conclusions and become worried unnecesarily, your assumption that my GP is not doing his job properly are both unfounded and without foundation and do him a great disservice.
Kind Regards
Gary

 

[Mark Parrott]

I haven't tried porridge yet, but home made muesli had such a bad affect on me (11.6 - 18.9!) so I think i'll be giving oats a wide birth at the mo.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Mark - Perhaps you could lower the response slightly by making the porridge up with full-fat milk (with a slight reduction in portions size if you are concerned about calories?). Including fat alongside carbs slows absorption and passage through the gut. Either that or as @Andy HB suggests, offset with some activity before or after. A walk around the block or whatever.

Gary - You might find this recent research from Australia interesting. It found that unstructured testing in T2 (infrequent, occasional, or just once a day for example) showed no benefit and was likely to increase anxiety and low mood. As you suggest, much research has concluded the same. However a *structured* test-review-adjust approach, before meals and perhaps 2 hrs after meals, with instruction as to how to adjust diet/behaviour led to significant glycemic improvements and higher quality of life scores. https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2015...sely-when-it-comes-monitoring-type-2-diabetes

You will forgive the enthusiasm of members here who have found ways of improving their own results, in a world where 80% of the budget on diabetes in the UK is spent on treating potentially avoidable long-term complications.

Self-testing may not suit everyone, and if you prefer not to test then that's great, but many T2 members here find it a crucial part of their diabetes-management strategy. Once they have observed how different foods affect them, they can back off to more occasional observation, but finding which foods affect their BGs most as individuals is extremely helpful to many people here.

 

[Amigo]

Hi Gary,

I'm delighted to hear that you have supreme confidence in your GP and feel content to be guided by his advice on levels and testing. I'm glad that you've decided to test too in spite of the general guidance you've received.

I'm perhaps not such a passive consumer of health services and know that as competent generalists, GP's are not always expert or up to date on every medical condition. My HbA1c was 52 at dx and my GP said he'd rather it was lower but wouldn't be unhappy if it remained there. And for many patients he sees, it's probably OK. My own extensive research since then tells me that those levels could lead to health problems like neuropathy and sight issues over time. Indeed the problems were starting for me.
So I've reduced it with determination, no meds and the excellent advice on here to 41 last time. And I've done it by regular daily testing. It's become obvious to me that medical advice, whilst important, can be dated and motivated by financial considerations.

I'm not sure which 'Diabetes support systems' have emphasised that type 2's shouldn't test too often because as one of the primary respected support systems on here, that's not the message I'm receiving. My GP fully supports and respects this and believes that patients should take individual responsibility for managing their diabetes regime. I accept that many wouldn't choose to and in any given week couldn't tell you whether their levels are in the 4's or 24's as a result.
But they'll find out in 3/6 months when the damage has possibly been done! 🙄

I can tolerate porridge well but only know that because I test regularly to try and avoid the dangerous spikes that are not always evident from a Hba1c test.

Regards,
Amigo

 

[Mark Parrott]

My diabetic nurse fully endorses testing, but had to buy my own meter as not on meds.

 

[Amberzak]

I know a lot of type 2s and they all test every day at least once. Sometimes a couple of times. The NHS want type 2s to test less purely because of the cost of test strips, and have been actively encouraged to cut down on testing for type twos (which also resulted in some type ones having difficulty getting test strips).

51 is an hba1c to be proud of, but should still me aimed it be lower. http://baspath.co.uk/Hba1c_table.pdf As you can see, 51 is in the blue good section. But could still get better. It's not a critism. We all can always do better. And my hba1c is way up. My nurse would be thrilled if I had an hba1c of 51. But that doesn't mean we'd stop working on getting it better.

Pumper Sue meant no offence to you. She was just pointing out that despite the NHS trying to cut back on type 2 support, there are numerous research papers out there from all over the world that state type 2s should check often (albeit not as often as type ones). Especially if you're taking medication.

 

[AndBreathe]

Pumper Sue said:
If my GP was delighted with results like that Then I would change GP.
Obviously you have been brainwashed into a sense of security regarding the not needing to test everyday.
Perhaps so you can enjoy many years to come do some research into managing your diabetes and ideal numbers to try and achieve 🙂


With respect Pumper Sue,
I think my GP will be very interested to hear you think I should dispense with his services, there is absolutely no question of that.
Indeed when I was lower than 5.8mmol/ltr around 3.3, I had sweats giddiness and shakes, this was caused by Gliclazide which I have now stopped taking. I'm not sure how low you think is acceptable, I know 3.3 is just too low for me
Perhaps you have had a bad experience with your GP, I'm not sure, but apart from my GP who I trust implicitly, the entire Diabetes support system has emphasised most strongly the need to NOT repeat NOT in the case of T2 Diabetes to measure too often.
They actually said I did not have to have a glucose meter at all, but I chose to get one and test every morning before food and the stored glucose levels on the software show my average to be in the blue zone which they say is normal too.
I could contend that perhaps you as a T1 Diabetes sufferer have been brainwashed into applying these principles of a T1 Diabetes sufferer across the board to those of us who are Type 2 I don't know.
I'm not an expert but to date, my hospital consultant, GP , the Diabetes community locally and my Roche Glucose tester all suggest the levels at which my diabetes is managed as a T2 sufferer are normal.
Indeed the consultant too, said HB1Ac of 51 is in the normal range.
Whilst I appreciate your comments, I think you should exercise perhaps a little more tact in your remarks, there may be others who unlike me, may draw wrong conclusions and become worried unnecesarily, your assumption that my GP is not doing his job properly are both unfounded and without foundation and do him a great disservice.
Kind Regards
Gary

Gary - I clearly don't know your back story and how you came to be diagnosed with diabetes, or indeed how, as a T2, you manage to be seeing a Consultant in the subject, but I'll respond anyway.

I was diagnosed, as a result of a routine blood panel, later in 2013, with an HbA1c of 73 (stats are in my signature). At that time, I was given the usual NHS guidance of the Eat Well, Low Fat Plate and no requirement for testing. To me, neither made too much sense. I was diagnosed with an issue metabolising sugars, told to go away and make dietary changes (to a diet I was already eating), without any tools to measure my progress, aside from a promise of a repeat blood test in a few months hence.

For me, at the point of diagnosis, my personal target was to get a close to non-diabetic levels as possible. Why would I want to target to "a bit better" when I could target to put myself into a much better place? At my next HbA1c, I had lowered my score to 37, and have been marginally lower ever since. I have never taken any medication. The two big guns in my change have been everything I eat and drink and testing. Without testing, I would not have known where my intolerances lay.

My normal (non-medicated) fasting range is 3.5 - 4.5. Pre-prandial scores are similar and I like to keep my post-prandial scores under 7 - at any time - with a return to within 1 of the starting point at 2 hours. I prefer, where I can, to run with a non-diabetic level blood profile as I feel that it minimises the chances of the unwanted complications we're all trying to side-step.

I totally accept that I appear to have been fortunate to have been diagnosed whilst my body still functioned well enough to recover. I acknowledge not everyone gets that lucky. I also acknowledge that not everyone is as aggressive in their striving for better health, but to me it is the most precious thing we have and I don't want to knowingly play any part in ruining it. Life's for living and I have too many adventures to cram in yet, to contemplate a depleted lifestyle.

Good luck with it all.

 

[Cowboy Bob]

Yep, as I've said elsewhere, my diabetic nurse told me that testing before and after meals would be advantageous but that the surgery couldn't prescribe a meter as the local authority had deemed the strips too expensive for T2s. Maybe they've made themselves more knowledgable as I know one of the receptionists and she's a T1?

The way my DN showed me the healthy eating plate was hilarious, she pulled it out, gave me a quick glimpse, told me what it was and then immediately put it away. I was like she had to show me it due to regulations, but really didn't want me to take any notice of it. She then gave me a bunch of DUK booklets that directed me here.

I'm sure they know that the official NHS guidelines are out of date, but they don't want to get in trouble so they go through the motions and surreptitiously point their patients towards more up-to-date information off the record. I'll be having a chat about this in more detail next time I see her in a few months time to see if my suspicions are correct.