Whole food plant based diet

[Deleted member 33898]

Has anyone on here tried this and found it successful for glucose management ? And I mean the the type were it's high carb low fat and low protein as opposed to low carb high fat diet.

Are there huge spikes at first and then they settle due to reduced insulin resistance from consuming less fat? Would you say it costs alot to maintain compared to a normal diet ?

 

[helli]

My diet is primarily plant based and I do not limit my carbs but I wouldn't give it a specific name.

My approach has always been to learn how to use the tools I am given to live the life I want rather than to change my life as that would feel as if I am letting diabetes take over.
So, I used the tools (insulin and blood glucose testing) to allow me to eat the diet part of my life that I want. This makes eating out and socialising relatively easy.
I don't see huge spikes not because my body is used to the diet but because I dose my insulin appropriately.

Thankfully, I do not experience insulin resistance. It is interesting that you ask as I have read that low carb can make insulin resistance worse. This is not something I have researched - it is just something I read in passing and it lodged in my brain.

@phil90 given you have Type 1 diabetes, what are your goals you are trying to achieve and challenges you are trying to overcome through a whole food based plant diet?

 

[Deleted member 33898]

@helli honestly despite putting some positive posts up in the past iam totally at the mercy of my diabetes. Pretty much constantly thinking about it, worrying and stressing everyday. I read about diets, management and so on in any spare time. I find myself re reading the same info over and over again . Im just not the best at problem solving and applying solutions. I've been in denial thinking my current ways are working because they are not. I'm very fixated on eating a certain amount of carbs per meal and eating a certain amount of protein and fat per meal. Protein has to be at least 30g and fat between 20g and 30g. Eating everyday is stressful to me. Even though I eat similar meals each day I still panic before thinking what I'm I going eat and yet I'll eat the same foods. At first I added fat and protein to gain more weight without upping the carbs too much. When I found they helped my levels a bit I stuck to this set amount of nutrients for each meal. But I'd definitely say for a while now signs have been there that something isn't quite right. Having more posts meal spikes above 10 which I thought I got rid of , spiking an hour and half after a meal and not coming back down without a walk or insulin or both. Upping ratios and tweaking timings with no impact. It's exhausting. A typical day now is go from 4 to 10, either correct or walk when levels aren't budging then come crashing down. On to the next meal and repeat. The only meal that isn't soo bad is dinner probably because of exercise but I then spike while I'm sleeping. Having to get up and correct then crash and correct , barely sleeping. When I go high I get burning in my lower legs and feet, itchy eyes and find it hard to stay awake in work( I'm pretty sure this isn't in my head) All I think about is how I'm probably going to become very ill down the line because I can't get myself some sort of stability.

Basically I'm looking for a silver bullet even though I know there isn't one. Maybe if I can follow a diet plan without having to think too much myself I can gain some sanity back and ultimately my life. I'm just fed up with all this. I bug my family talking about it all the time, my partner and my friends. Look I'm even on here complaining once again. I know no one can do this for me but I'm getting desperate now .

 

[Inka]

I think you’re being too strict @phil90 You ‘spike’ then rush to get it down with insulin or exercise then crash. It’s a horrible situation to be in. If you’re sure your basal is right - always a good first thing to check - ease off on the control slightly. Type 1 is a beast. You need to pace yourself. It will burn you out very quickly if you let it.

I know how frustrating and stressful ‘wrong’ numbers are, but dealing with them is more of a mental task than a practical one. It’s the emotional burden that will get you down. Just ease off a tiny bit. Remember - perfection is impossible, and, more than that, pursuing it is a path to stress and burnout.

A WFPB diet is fine if you want, but choose it for its own reasons not because of the diabetes.

 

[Deleted member 33898]

@Inka i really don't know anymore. It's probably more to do with my personality but it's who iam . I've always been very obsessive and let things get to me easily. Unfortunately I think the diet choice would be mainly for diabetes. I think I had a month were I was feeling happy in the last year but somehow that got away from me and I can't seem to get back to it. my bloods were more stable then and thats the reason why, I have no doubt. I feel terrible for my partner too cause she has to listen to me everyday. I absolutely despise the job I switched to last year before my diagnosis and have an interview lined up for another but I've been soo preoccupied with diabetes that I haven't prepared at all. It is definitely in control of my life now. It really feels like a nightmare from waking to the few hours of sleep I manage a day. That's just how I feel unfortunately. I've said to myself many times lately I don't want to eat or I don't want to take insulin anymore. It seems like soo much time and effort for little return. This last week I haven't had 3 meals over a couple of days. Not for basal testing but because my levels spiked at the previous meal or overnight and I didn't want to be dealing with it again. It just feels like it's getting more difficult to handle. I need a total reset

 

[Inka]

Speak to your team @phil90 They can give practical support as well as emotional. I phoned mine once when I was very stressed with high levels, even though I’ve had diabetes for decades, and the DSN was fantastic. She told me what to do and having someone else take-over like that for me was a big relief.

Reset your thinking about spikes. I’ve had a pretty sh*t year with my blood sugar for various reasons and the only way I’ve dealt with it was by lowering my expectations. It had me in tears. Don’t let it do that to you. Raise your targets a little. It’s like letting some pressure out of a bottle. You have to do it else the bottle/you will explode. Even if you just give yourself a month of more relaxed targets, you’ll feel the benefit.

Remember, all those really old people you read about who’ve had diabetes for 70 or 80 years spent their first decades urine testing, using much less flexible insulin regimes, etc etc, and they’re ok. I think part of the trick is routine. Stick to the same two or three breakfasts and lunches. You’ll know your bolus dose then and don’t have to think or make decisions. That mental break is invaluable.

You’re not alone. The most difficult part of Type 1 isn’t the injections, it’s the relentlessness of it day after day and the fact that getting control is like trying to hammer jelly to the wall. Take one day at a time and do the best you can within reasonable limits. Try not to react to the numbers too much. Importantly, also make time to live your life. Celebrate every success no matter how small. Try to reframe things from negative to positive. I also recommend maybe seeing a counsellor. They don’t have to know much about diabetes. They listen and help you identify your thoughts and look at them in a different way.

 

[Deleted member 33898]

@Inka I really appreciate your reply. I had reached out to my Doctor again recently as my mental health hasn't been great. I've been waiting a few months to get counselling started, as like everything there is a waiting list. I was briefly on anti depressants but they had me falling asleep at random times of the day so I stopped them. Another assessment is supposed to happen with the mental health team but I'm already on a waiting list so not sure the reason for this. They also arranged an appointment with the diabetic clinic who I then contacted myself as I couldn't make it and asked for another time but their reception is pretty woeful it seems at arranging or passing on messages as I haven't heard anything. I just feel like I'm probably wasting their time when they are dealing with new diabetics. Wasn't too long ago I finished counselling for a long running gambling addiction as I had a relapse after being diagnosed. But I guess there is always someone in a worse position than I am. That's what we are always told.

I'm going to apply some of what you have said best I can. Relaxing targets might be the one thing I'll feel most uncomfortable with but I'll try. I think the clinic could have done better at the beginning to set me realistic goals. I ended up online and finding these targets that I probably shouldn't have been considering for a while. Worst thing they did was give me the libre sensor 2 days into diagnosis. And it is never been accurate enough for me, always out by 1.5 to 2 mmol. I used xdrip for a while to calibrate but then this was even more info that made me more obsessed. I still finger prick up to 10 times a day because I don't trust the sensor accuracy. I want to believe that everything is going to be okay even if I can't manage okay levels but there too many stories of those with near non diabetic levels still getting complications, I even read a post the other day on here. Not very encouraging. I think the food aspect is very difficult. I can't see a solution to what I currently eat. I've tried pre bolus times ranging from none up to as much as I can handle before hypoing, makes no difference. There was something helping me before, perhaps my own insulin or I've built up insulin resistance. Its anyone's guess really.

Anyway I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough time this year and hope all is well. Thanks again

 

[john e]

reception is pretty woeful it seems at arranging or passing on messages as I haven't heard anything. I just feel like I'm probably wasting their time when they are dealing with new diabetics.

No your not, try again

 

[Inka]

You’re not wasting their time @phil90 That’s what they’re there for - anyone who needs help however long they’ve been diagnosed. We all have periods of challenge even if we’ve had diabetes for years. You’re pretty recently diagnosed too so don’t feel guilty for one moment.

There are always people worse off than us, yes, but that doesn’t mean we’re not entitled to care. DSNs are brilliant and they support us all, whatever our age, abilities, or how long we’ve been diagnosed.

If you want some positive vibes, have a look at some of the Type 1 research. I’d become quite cynical about ‘a cure in five years’ because I’ve heard it so many times before, but recently there have been some great breakthroughs - and some big money to support research. I now have much more confidence that we’ll find a cure soon. We just have to keep going, one day at a time. You’re not alone - remember that.

 

[Deleted member 33898]

I'll see if I can get them on the phone today. Who knows maybe they'll see something I don't. I guess I thought after a year things would be somewhat easier. I woke up this morning and lay in bed thinking for 30 minutes about what food I should have, if it was the right choice, should I take more bolus or less, should I add something to it. This way of thinking has me skipping meals more often lately. I think not wanting to give up before conceding to one of these strict diets is what plagues me everyday. There seems to be too many success stories with very low carb or very high carb eating.

Yes I've seen a few promising bits of research. I'm hopeful there may be some sort of cure or least close to it within 5 to 10 years. Of course I'd like to be comfortable and healthy as possibly before that day comes.

 

[Inka]

That’s why I usually have one of two breakfasts - I can’t cope with waking up and having to think like that. It sounds boring but it’s a relief not to have to think.

I don’t think you need a strict diet. Some general principles would be enough. The Mediterranean Diet is good for general health, for example. There is no magic diet that makes Type 1 easy. Believe me, I’d have found it if there was! Each method has its disadvantages and no diet will give perfect sugars. More than that, it’s not just about blood sugar. No good having a fab HbA1C if you clog up your arteries, for example!

I just try to eat moderately - moderate fats, moderate carbs - and try to fit lots of veg in, along with pulses and whole grains. So vaguely Mediterranean, I guess.

 

[Deleted member 33898]

@Inka yeah I'm just deciding on what 2 breakfast meals to go forward with. There are 4 I go between but find the 3 with grains cause the most problems, especially oats. 1 is low in carbs and probably is the main reason why I get half the spike in comparison to the others. Can't say I enjoy the low carb one though

I feel as though I have tried to do as much as I can to keep something resembling my pre diagnosis diet. I always had oats more or less by themselves but for the last year I added chia seeds, peanut butter etc to slow it down. But even that trick has stopped working.

My lunches are pretty much always bread to make a sandwich and I definitely find it boring. And of course I get the worst levels at lunch time, always have.

Dinner is hit and miss but mostly okay. Again I think it's to do with exercise. Plus I've been finding some of your examples like pulses to have next to no spike but I go low instead. Trading one issue for another haha...

Example of lower evening, high breakfast and higher lunch. Went down fast at lunch because I walked. Then it starts to go back up again for whatever reason 3 hours after eating.

 

[Inka]

That’s a brief spike @phil90 and you didn’t go exceptionally high. If you come back into range, I’d just leave it personally. As for oats, I find it makes a big difference which ones you buy. The best are the whole/jumbo steel cut oats. They’re absorbed more slowly and don’t cause as big a spike as the powdery processed oats.

I generally have cereal for breakfast. It took me a while to work out the best insulin dose. I generally need slightly more insulin for cereal than, say, a croissant of the same carbs. I weighed out my cereal and then ate it day after day, testing and noting down anything significant. That way I was able to find the bolus that worked. So, when I have cereal now, I just weigh it and inject the correct amount of units. It’s a case of persistence and sheer bloodymindedness.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Sorry to hear what a tough time you’ve been having with your menu @phil90

Diabetes is relentless, and feeling like you are in a daily battle where it’s just waiting to pounce on you for no reason can be so draining and demoralising

Hope you get some positive support from your clinic, and do chase up that counselling and MH support. T1 associates with disordered eating, and that can take many forms, and does not differentiate between sex or gender

 

[Deleted member 33898]

@Inka I might just give up on oats. The steel cut ones are hard to find. Been having rolled oats. Tried them as overnight oats, added chia seeds and all sorts. Still spike everytime.Having better luck with bran flakes so might concentrate on them. Just need to change my way of thinking a bit. Like I couldn't just be given a bowl with some milk to eat. Ive convinced myself adding some fat to it helps, eating in the order of fruit egg branflakes etc I don't know maybe this something others do aswell. Surprisingly though I had some on the go oat bar with an apple and nuts the other day when I was in a hurry . I got the tinyest spike. Lowish fat and practically no protein. How that happened I don't know.

Lunch may be a bigger challenge. Its thinking of what to eat I guess. I've never had much of an imagination and generally a fussy eater.

@everydayupsanddowns thank you. It's really alot of time and effort I'd rather be using elsewhere. It's like a timer is set right after I have one meal to the next and I try to go about day to day things but I'm also thinking of the next meal and how it will go.

Clinic have been difficult unfortunately. They called me back and said they have an appointment day and time but I said I have a mental health appointment that would conflict with it. They said that would be my 3rd failed appointment. Don't know how as there only was one I know of and I told them in advance I couldn't go and to reschedule. Just told me they would get back to me which probably means they won't. Might have to return to my GP to do a bit of whinging.

 

[nonethewiser]

@Inka I might just give up on oats. The steel cut ones are hard to find. Been having rolled oats. Tried them as overnight oats, added chia seeds and all sorts. Still spike everytime.Having better luck with bran flakes so might concentrate on them. Just need to change my way of thinking a bit. Like I couldn't just be given a bowl with some milk to eat. Ive convinced myself adding some fat to it helps, eating in the order of fruit egg branflakes etc I don't know maybe this something others do aswell. Surprisingly though I had some on the go oat bar with an apple and nuts the other day when I was in a hurry . I got the tinyest spike. Lowish fat and practically no protein. How that happened I don't know.

Lunch may be a bigger challenge. Its thinking of what to eat I guess. I've never had much of an imagination and generally a fussy eater.

@everydayupsanddowns thank you. It's really alot of time and effort I'd rather be using elsewhere. It's like a timer is set right after I have one meal to the next and I try to go about day to day things but I'm also thinking of the next meal and how it will go.

Clinic have been difficult unfortunately. They called me back and said they have an appointment day and time but I said I have a mental health appointment that would conflict with it. They said that would be my 3rd failed appointment. Don't know how as there only was one I know of and I told them in advance I couldn't go and to reschedule. Just told me they would get back to me which probably means they won't. Might have to return to my GP to do a bit of whinging.

Big oats lover here, brand been buying for last 2 years is Quakers Ultimare Oats, they are ultra thick & taste delicious, have 60g portion for brekkie most mornings without going into double figures.

 

[Inka]

I often have a sourdough sandwich for lunch @phil90 Rye bread is good too. Again, a case of experimenting. I tend to buy the same two or three breads. Then I add fruit, yoghurt or whatever for after my sandwich. Sometimes I have a salad and bread alongside. I pretty much have some variation of that most days. I then know how much insulin to have and it takes some of the stress and thinking away.

The oats I use when I can’t find ‘proper’ ones are Tesco Finest. They take about 6 or 7 minutes to cook on the hob and give a gentler rise. To my mind, the longer the oats take to cook, the better they are.

All Bran is good as are some of the granolas (because they have added fat). I have a Dorset Cereals Honey Granola, which is lower in carbs than I’d assumed. I often mix it with All Bran or Bran Flakes (weigh both cereals and stick to the same weights each day).

 

[Deleted member 33898]

Big oats lover here, brand been buying for last 2 years is Quakers Ultimare Oats, they are ultra thick & taste delicious, have 60g portion for brekkie most mornings without going into double figures.

Just googled, they look good. Do you have them with anything else ?

 

[Deleted member 33898]

I often have a sourdough sandwich for lunch @phil90 Rye bread is good too. Again, a case of experimenting. I tend to buy the same two or three breads. Then I add fruit, yoghurt or whatever for after my sandwich. Sometimes I have a salad and bread alongside. I pretty much have some variation of that most days. I then know how much insulin to have and it takes some of the stress and thinking away.

The oats I use when I can’t find ‘proper’ ones are Tesco Finest. They take about 6 or 7 minutes to cook on the hob and give a gentler rise. To my mind, the longer the oats take to cook, the better they are.

All Bran is good as are some of the granolas (because they have added fat). I have a Dorset Cereals Honey Granola, which is lower in carbs than I’d assumed. I often mix it with All Bran or Bran Flakes (weigh both cereals and stick to the same weights each day).

I gave wholemeal sourdough and rye bread a go for a while and seemed to spike higher with these then wholemeal granary. Might be bread is out for me completely. Ive been going between granary and wholemeal seeded lately. Have some sort of meat with it , fruit , nuts and a protein bar depending on how much is in the meat. Though I really need to cut protein bars out of my diet.

I'm using flahavans rolled oats at the moment. Generally for making overnight oats ( chia seeds, peanut butter and raspberries) have to say I don't like it and was only used as a way of having something to bring with me to work when I start extra early. Would be great to find an on the go blood friendly breakfast.

All bran is quite nice. Haven't had that for a while. I have tried granola with soya yogurt a few times which isn't too bad. Do you use cow's milk with breakfast? Im not sure how much difference there is except the carbs, from what I've read it's quite slow digesting.

 

[Leadinglights]

The protein bars I have are only about 6g carb per bar, Morrisons or Aldi. Or Nature Valley at 10g.