What's your thoughts on this theory?

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Dizzydi

Dizzydi

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
OMG my BS was 4 when I got up this morning!!

I have been gradually reducing my levemir since starting on novorapid as my morning sugars have been getting lower and lower in the morn

4.9, 4.8, 4.8, 4.8, 4.4, 4.0
Perfect numbers except I can't legally drive with them!

The thing I cannot understand is why for the 8 weeks prior to starting on novorapid my numbers have been going up to 10 in the morn and 16 in the evenings.

I'm now injecting 4 units novorapid and 7 levemir (was 12, gonna reduce to 6 tonight), could stress and anticipation since June have had an effect on my BS or is it more likely my pancras went on holiday and though sod it i'm not working for a while and now it has kick started again ?

Does the pancras do this ? or am I barking up the wrong tree - would be nce to try and understand if possible what happens :confused:
 
I dont really know about the function of a type 2s pancreas to be honest.....

My first thoughts we be simply that the right dose is still to be established........who came up with the doses at the start?.....these are always educated guesses but not always right........

Hopefully it settles down for you.........😉
 
Dizzydi said:
OMG my BS was 4 when I got up this morning!!

I have been gradually reducing my levemir since starting on novorapid as my morning sugars have been getting lower and lower in the morn

4.9, 4.8, 4.8, 4.8, 4.4, 4.0
Perfect numbers except I can't legally drive with them!

The thing I cannot understand is why for the 8 weeks prior to starting on novorapid my numbers have been going up to 10 in the morn and 16 in the evenings.

I'm now injecting 4 units novorapid and 7 levemir (was 12, gonna reduce to 6 tonight), could stress and anticipation since June have had an effect on my BS or is it more likely my pancras went on holiday and though sod it i'm not working for a while and now it has kick started again ?

Does the pancras do this ? or am I barking up the wrong tree - would be nce to try and understand if possible what happens :confused:
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Hi Dizzydi
Nice morning numbers, mine are normally in the 8 range..

I have given up trying to understand the workings of diabetes, when you think you have the answer, it strikes back and changes🙂

Wish I was on low doses like you. On Levemir I take 140 units each day
70 am and 70 pm, then the novorapid works out at 50 units @ breakfast, 40 units @ lunch and 50 units @ teatime, and thats altered very little in 5 years.

Best wishes in your quest to get it right

John..
 
ukjohn said:
Hi Dizzydi
Nice morning numbers, mine are normally in the 8 range..

I have given up trying to understand the workings of diabetes, when you think you have the answer, it strikes back and changes🙂

Wish I was on low doses like you. On Levemir I take 140 units each day
70 am and 70 pm, then the novorapid works out at 50 units @ breakfast, 40 units @ lunch and 50 units @ teatime, and thats altered very little in 5 years.

Best wishes in your quest to get it right

John..
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Wow john, that is alot of insulin, even more than me and I am not a small guy..........does that amount of insulin have noticeable efect on weight....sorry for the subject change di......
 
Novorapidboi

I find it difficult to lose weight in spite of going to the gym and using a treadmill at home, my doctor deems it a success if I just maintain my weight 🙂
They acknowledge its the insulin that causes the problem now, which is a change from the past thinking. But I must admit at 71 years of age I maybe don't exercise nowadays as much as I should.

John
 
ukjohn said:
Novorapidboi

I find it difficult to lose weight in spite of going to the gym and using a treadmill at home, my doctor deems it a success if I just maintain my weight 🙂
They acknowledge its the insulin that causes the problem now, which is a change from the past thinking. But I must admit at 71 years of age I maybe don't exercise nowadays as much as I should.

John
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Have they offered any medication that will help with any insilin resistance going on.......
 
novorapidboi26 said:
Have they offered any medication that will help with any insilin resistance going on.......
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Metformin was suggested at one stage, but then test showed I had only 51% kidney function, which is to close to the 50% at which Metformin should not be prescribed, so that idea was shelved.
John.
 
Di, a number of things could be going on.

Firstly your levemir dose may have been too high and you could have gone low in the night and the liver then threw out glycogen causing your blood sugars to rise.

There are some people who when they start to use insulin find their requirements drop for a while as its as if the pancreas does regain some of its function temporarily.

Stress can cause blood sugars to rise as can certain other hormones and steroids. Some of the treatment you have been on may have been causing an increase in the BMs.

Sadly there is no simple answer - there are so many things that could be happening. Glad that you are getting such good waking levels though.
 
Dizzydi said:
OMG my BS was 4 when I got up this morning!!

I have been gradually reducing my levemir since starting on novorapid as my morning sugars have been getting lower and lower in the morn

4.9, 4.8, 4.8, 4.8, 4.4, 4.0
Perfect numbers except I can't legally drive with them!

The thing I cannot understand is why for the 8 weeks prior to starting on novorapid my numbers have been going up to 10 in the morn and 16 in the evenings.

I'm now injecting 4 units novorapid and 7 levemir (was 12, gonna reduce to 6 tonight), could stress and anticipation since June have had an effect on my BS or is it more likely my pancras went on holiday and though sod it i'm not working for a while and now it has kick started again ?

Does the pancras do this ? or am I barking up the wrong tree - would be nce to try and understand if possible what happens :confused:
Click to expand...

I definitely find that stress has an effect on my numbers, so that could be a a factor - I've had to double my insulin due to stress in the past!

Another thing is that, my understanding is that high blood sugars lead to insulin resistance - If my blood sugar is 16, I need more insulin to bring it down than my correction factor would suggest due to the extra insulin resistance. If you were regularly running on the high side after meals etc, maybe your underlying insulin resistance was a bit higher, and now the novorapid has helped with that, so the levemir is more effective?

Nice numbers though! :D
 
The best description I've been given for the action of a diabetics' pancreas is that it's like a failing engine. It's coughs along for a bit then sputters and dies. Then it may start up and purr quietly for a while before sputtering and dying again. Apparently the quietly purring times get further and further apart.

I used to think that a Type 1 pancreas didn't work at all. Being part of this forum has been a real learning experience.
 
AlisonM said:
The best description I've been given for the action of a diabetics' pancreas is that it's like a failing engine. It's coughs along for a bit then sputters and dies. Then it may start up and purr quietly for a while before sputtering and dying again. Apparently the quietly purring times get further and further apart.

I used to think that a Type 1 pancreas didn't work at all. Being part of this forum has been a real learning experience.
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Are you saying it does work........?? My belief is that the beta cells which produce the insulin have been destroyed, or are under attack at diagnosis....

:confused:
 
novorapidboi26 said:
Are you saying it does work........?? My belief is that the beta cells which produce the insulin have been destroyed, or are under attack at diagnosis....

:confused:
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This was my understanding, too. I know just after diagnosis your pancreas can still produce a certain amount for some time, and gradually produce less and less until it gets to zero. Once it's at zero, I thought all the cells were then destroyed and that was the end of it?
 
A Joslin study released August this year found that in some 50 year medallists (T1s with 50+ years of the condition) there was still insulin production.

Blood samples showed that many in this group exhibit C-peptide molecules (a marker of insulin production), blood glucose levels that rise less after a meal than would be expected in the absence of insulin, and signs of autoimmune attack.

Moreover, all of the donated pancreases displayed active insulin-producing beta cells, with some of the cells scattered individually and others clumped with different kinds of hormone-producing cells in the normal pancreatic structures called islets. Most strikingly, some of the beta cells showed signs of cell proliferation, cell death and autoimmune attack.

“We’ve clearly demonstrated that functional beta cells are still in the pancreas,” says Hillary Keenan, Ph.D., Joslin research associate and first author on the paper.
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Part of the 50 Year Medallist Study:
http://www.joslin.org/news/ultimate...in_50-year_medalists_give_clues_to_cures.html
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
A Joslin study released August this year found that in some 50 year medallists (T1s with 50+ years of the condition) there was still insulin production.
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😱

Great. Another variable!
 
bigpurpleduck said:
😱

Great. Another variable!
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Might explain some of those "WHAT ON EARTH IS GOING ON HERE!!" weeks :D

I did find this snippet quite encouraging though:

?The evidence that these insulin-producing cells are both growing and dying is very important from a treatment point of view,? says George L. King, M.D., senior author on the paper and head of the Dianne Nunnally Hoppes Laboratory for Diabetes Complications. ?If we could increase the rate of growth and decrease the rate of death, we potentially could build up more insulin-producing cells and lead to a treatment or a cure.?
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I think that the study Mike has linked to is the one that has also showed that those still producing small amount of insulin (and therefore c-peptide) have less complications and better controlled diabetes. So I think it's important if possible to retain any beta cell function.

It might have been Di that you levemir dose was doing all the work and now with the novorapid it is more balanced out. How has your total dose of insulin changed?
 
sofaraway said:
I think that the study Mike has linked to is the one that has also showed that those still producing small amount of insulin (and therefore c-peptide) have less complications and better controlled diabetes. So I think it's important if possible to retain any beta cell function.

It might have been Di that you levemir dose was doing all the work and now with the novorapid it is more balanced out. How has your total dose of insulin changed?
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Hi Sofaraway,

Started on Insultard in Jan 10 - 4 units which was ok for a couple of weeks then rose slightly to 6 units for a while.

Then I started with the higher bs in May / June getting between 7 -8 in the mornings and increased the insultard to 8 units, but then kept having hyps between 1.30 and 2 in the morning. But also started with high bs in the afternoon and evenings these where between 10 and going as high as 16.9.

Saw the consultant begining of July and he switched me to levemir to sort out morning bs started on 6 units which I gradually increased to 12 units to get me between 6 - 7 in mornings. afternoon and evening still 10 to 16.

Saw consultant about 3 weeks ago and he introduced the novorapid 4 units with evening meal. First night I had a hypo at 10.30 pm (think i injected both to close together).

So then moved levemir to 10 pm and reduced to 8 units from 12 - no real reason to reduce this much just wanted to see what my bs would be in the morning. they where between 5 - 6.

So this week with getting the high 4's though I had better reduce the Levemir again and keep the novorapid the same.

My next plan of action was to reduce levemire tonight to 6 units and if still low in the morning maybe reduce the novorapid.

Hope I've not rambled to much here.

Di x
 
Hi Di.....as someone else said previously that their insulin needs increase when stressed i am another one where this is also the case. I have also taken numerous injections in one day due to stress 😱 i am on the road to sorting this one out though as its all work related!

You have great numbers though 🙂

I would also like to comment (sorry for being sooooo cynical) but i too was another one that thought the cells die and that is that. There are always exceptions to the rule but re the medical study my negative side saw this point:

[QUOTE But a study by Joslin Diabetes Center scientists now has firmly established that some of these cells endure for many decades in a small group of people with the disease[/QUOTE]

I am a cynic about a cure but i will always live in hope...sorry guys 🙄

Bernie xx 🙂
 
You may be right Bernie, but the summary also mentions spotting evidence of active autoimmune attack... so presumably (for this small group) if one could persuade their immune system to stop eating insulin-producing cells their number would increase, perhaps even to the level required to regain some sort of pancreatic efficiency?
 
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