Whatever Johnson says, we can’t defeat Covid with ‘personal responsibility’ alone

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Well a friend of mine from across the water just shared a newspaper report from Mississippi. This is not just about protecting 'the vulnerable' it is about protecting those who have previously been considered magically protected - the children. The Delta variant is not taking a summer break.

I think wearing masks and keeping social distancing is a good idea. And if people need hospital treatment for non-Covid medical situations then surely making sure the hospitals are not over run with Covid cases is probably a good way to help them have their appointments and treatments carried out?

I don't see how anything is going to be helped by letting Covid and all the other flus and communicable diseases that have been restrained by masks and social distancing have their free reign through the population. The vaccine is only part of a mix of strategies that together will keep us acceptably safe. Take one of the strategies away and the others are made less effective.

12 children in the ICU, 10 on life support.


And their local health team is suggesting these measures now to try and stop it becoming even more of a disaster.
Hospitalizations surge in Mississippi due to Delta variant, health officials say
On Tuesday, the Mississippi State Department of Health (MSDH) reported 219 new coronavirus cases and 10 additional deaths across the state.

Last week, MSDH issued new public health guidance due to the increase in COVID-19 cases. The agency issued the following recommendations:

  • Those 65 and older should avoid all indoor mass gatherings (regardless of vaccination status)
  • All Mississippi residents with chronic underlying medical conditions avoid all indoor mass gatherings
  • All Mississippians 12 years of age and older receive COVID vaccination
  • All unimmunized wear a mask when indoors in public setting
 
pm133 said:
They've doubly vaccinated most people now and will continue that but they now believe they need to turn their attention to more pressing matters which are resulting in significantly higher death levels than covid such as cancer.
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Hospitalisations now rising at (nearly) the same rate as cases (in the sense that they're doubling roughly every 11 days, numbers are much lower, obviously, and they're much lower than they were in January).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1414658909239918595
 
mikeyB said:
Some folk (including Northie) forget that Boris Johnson only governs England's Covid Policy. In Scotland, as pm133 knows, mask wearing and social distancing is maintained and mandatory in public places. Wales is also slightly different.

It seems the Scottish government has in mind the current increase in cases, which is entirely the fault of the English government not putting India on the no fly and no entry list at the same time as it did Pakistan and Bangladesh, allowing the new variant to enter the country free as bird to take root and spread throughout the UK. And now Boris won't make even masks mandatory or social distancing compulsory, relying on our own personal judgement. My own personal judgement is Boris is not fit to lead the country as cases multiply. Every scientist from the WHO downwards thinks it is too soon for "Freedom Day". It sure isn't Freedom Day for for folk like our Amigo for whom vaccines won't work.
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Thanks for recognising that ‘Freedom Day’ isn’t an equal opportunity occasion Mike. We have many thousands of pretty concerned (scared) people with cancer of the immune system, including me, who probably haven’t responded to the vaccine because they can’t make the antibodies and know their chance of surviving Covid is estimated at about 34%. Incidentally they’re not all old people expecting to die anytime soon!
We were part of the 1.8 million who shielded faithfully, at great personal expense (including not receiving our cancer treatments) because to go out would have compromised not just us but primarily the NHS.
Before anyone jumps in and tells me we can’t hold the world back because of us, surprisingly we know that but life would be less scary if the Govt had held back on throwing out all the precautions before the vaccinations were finished. Can we really rely on those who are invincible and couldn’t give a rat’s tu tu to keep their distance or wear a mask in confined situations? The younger people are the main vectors presently and they are not yet vaccinated.
The only advice we’ve received so far from Boris & Crew is in Hill Street Blues style, ‘please be careful out there!’ No help for those who will be required to work in maskless environments with no regard for social distancing. Because hey, it’s Freedom Day! Yippee! 🙄
 
trophywench said:
How the heck does one 'avoid unvaccinated people' in the first place?
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They’re the people in the pink hats. 😉 (Short of going round asking people - from a safe distance, of course - “Excuse me, have you been doubly vaccinated?” - the answer is...too rude to type here).
 
mikeyB said:
@pm133, you keep saying masks don't work. That is only true if you are wearing a mask and nobody else is. They won't protect against a heavy virus load in, say a sneeze. But if everyone wears a mask, the risk of droplet spread is reduced by around 90%. This has been scientifically (and practically) demonstrated.

You will have noticed that in those countries who endured the SARS epidemic instantly started wearing masks, and as a result were able to keep the virus under control, and operate their T&T without any overwhelming problem. And the people knew that was what they had to do, it was hardly necessary for governments to advise that, it's just what they do in epidemics.

And are you saying the Scottish government is not reacting to scientific and epidemical advice?
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Let's leave aside the fact that you've changed your minbd in a week about the effectiveness of masks.

If masks work and we've had 90% compliance for over a year, why are we on our 3rd massive wave of infections?

Why are we so much worse than virtually any other country in the world?

Why is Scotland the worse country in Europe for cases?

I don't live in any other country so I can't tell you why any other country is showing low case numbers.

By the way, the virus doesn't just travel on droplets. It clearly doesn't because masks apparently stop those and we're on our 3rd wave. Nobody is wandering around coughing and sneezing in public right now. It's an airborne virus which is travelling on the moisture in every breath you take and make, most of which comes through your mask or out the edges because they are not sealed and the moisture in your breath is small enough to get through the pores in your mask and then those small covid-filled particles hang in the air. The virus can't tell the difference between droplets and normal water particles from breathing.
 
Lucyr said:
My issue in that I’m not able to wear a mask myself. There are some places I can limit my exposure such as going shopping at a quiet time (can’t really do home delivery as I live alone and don’t meet the minimum spend), but others like work where I need to see what my employer decides is the plan.
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I don't have any answers to this Lucy and it looks like the government don't either.
 
Eddy Edson said:
Masks: an interesting thread by early mask proponent, Trisha Greenhalg (primary care prof at Oxford):
https://twitter.com/x/status/1414294003479089154
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So there's someone who actually was involved in research into masks and admits the evidence is sketchy.

Her argument is that we should be wearing for "moral reasons".

Well she is welcome to do whatever she wants.
As are those of us who don't agree that masking up is a moral issue.
 
mikeyB said:
And are you saying the Scottish government is not reacting to scientific and epidemical advice?
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I'm saying that there is no "settled science" on this stuff.
Every country is following different advice and rules, even within the UK we have 4 parliaments/assemblies doing different things.

The Scottish government are making it up as they go along, just like every other country. What drives Sturgeon is not wanting to look like Boris. You also have to bear in mind that every thing she does is through the prism of Scottish Independence. She is terrified of making a mistake and killing that issue because if they lose any future IndyRef2, that'll probably settle things for the next 30-50 years. Her entire political life has been aimed squarely at Independence.

Keeping masks is an easy way of making it look like you care and most importantly they encourage people to socially distance. THAT is the only real benefit of masking. That was why they were introduced by the UK governments behavioural scientists.

Have everyone already forgotten that less than a year ago the same scientists were telling us all that masks didn't work? The WHO didn't recommend them either. In fact the likes of Whitty were pointing out that wearing them brought dangers. Have people really forgotten all this?
 
Bruce Stephens said:
Hospitalisations now rising at (nearly) the same rate as cases (in the sense that they're doubling roughly every 11 days, numbers are much lower, obviously, and they're much lower than they were in January).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1414658909239918595
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The person who tweeted that asks "what next?"
Well there is only one thing to do next.
Vaccinate everyone twice and get a booster program up and running.

There's nothing here we don't already know unless they are telling us that these hospitalisations are affecting doubly vaccinated people in a proportion way beyond what we would expect for vaccines which are not 100% effective.

Vaccines are our only way out of this.
In the meantime, the UK governments all believe it's time to start thinking about other health issues.
 
Boris doesn't worry about having blood on his hands. He went against scientific advice by ignoring it until forced by the death rate before imposing the first lockdown, and delayed equally before locking down the second time.

Now he has cut the rate of overseas aid from 0.7% of GDP to 0.5%. That will cause deaths worldwide. He is now held in contempt by every aid agency in the world. Any fool can work out that this is not a necessary cut. Aid would be reduced by 0.7% of a smaller economy, so it's not the economy that has precipitated this change. It's the millionaire Sunak who wants the money, stolen from the starving people of the world, to help him do his sums without increasing tax. That's why they won't maintain the £20 uplift in Universal Credit.

You may know we are buying up to 35 F-35 jets for our Aircraft Carriers. They cost around 100 million dollars. Each. and around 35,000 dollars an hour to fly. And Sunak says there's no money around. To say nothing about the £8000 per second that our nuclear "defence" costs.

Folk like that don't care about a few excess people dying, whatever the cost. They need our income tax to fund all this, so they have to get people back to work, and pretend that it's the people's own fault if they get infected.
 
Anyway, the masking issue is decided.

England is getting rid of their mandatory use on Monday although the London Mayor seems to think he can force their use on London Transport.

And Scotland's deputy first minister John Swinney has said he expects masks will still be mandatory in Scotland at Christmas, which means they are here to stay for at least another year because they won't remove the mandate in the middle of flu season. Sounds like Wales and NI are in the same boat.

Maybe those of us in Scotland who don't want masks can house swap with those in England who want to keep them mandatory, on a 6-monthly basis. Anyone up for that? 😉
 
Maybe those folk in Scotland who don’t want masks can just stay at home and suffer in silence.

By the way, the Scottish government have acted differently to the English government backseats they have their own medical advisers. They also have an increase in the number of people infected, as they do in England. It’s nothing to do with politics, it’s caring for the people.

They are moving to Level 0 next week, but with masking still in place while vaccinations continue till the job is done.

And the clue to Nicola Sturgeon being dedicated to independence is in the SNP manifesto for all to see. She just hasn’t mentioned it much at her Coronavirus updates, only the opposition do that.
 
mikeyB said:
Maybe those folk in Scotland who don’t want masks can just stay at home and suffer in silence.
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No need for that Mikey.
This isn't Twitter.
You seem to routinely forget that.

And with your second paragraph where you attempt to turn this into a "morality" issue, I'm going to bail from further discussion on the matter.
I also don't need anyone mansplaining what is happening in my own country.
Covid is a matter of medicine and science and I'll only discuss it on those terms.
If you want to make it about "morals" and "caring" then I'll leave you to discuss it with others.

Deary me, you fair triggered me there. I'm away for a coffee to calm down. :D
 
I've never used Twitter, and never will, so I have nothing to "routinely forget." The comment was written as such to make a point that seems both obvious and brief.

Nor did I suggest any moral aspect. And if you don't like Nicola Sturgeon's obvious worries about about how best to care for her population, in direct contrast with the English PM, then tough. Her advice is guided by medical and epidemiolocal advice that she listens to from her advisers, again in contrast to the idiot in charge of England. Blame her advisers, if you want to blame anybody. It is not, and never has been a political decision, except in England.

And I should add, if you use coffee to calm down, then I'm not in the least surprised that you invent reasons for my intentions that don't exist.
 
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