What to eat for breakfast ?

[Mafanwy]

Evening lovely folks,
I am hoping you can come up with some ideas on what to give my hubby for breakfast. The nutritionist has not been a lot of help. Her answer was eat vegetables With a slice of toast. Who the heck wants to eat veg for breakfast. I suppose some might , but my hubby certainly wont. His face was a picture. He cannot eat eggs, he does not eat fish.Before this nightmare began he had cereal and a slice of toast. We tried everything we could find that was lowest on carbs shreddies , weetabix , porridge , cornflakes sugar shot up like a rocket. So then we reduced it size wise till it was not worth dirtying the dish, 30g is nothing and left him very hungr sausage and two Tbs of no added sugar baked beans, shot up to 17. Tried ditto bread with a slice of edam on top went up to 15. Was told to eat real porridge at night to prevent the hypos of 3.5 during night. Had little effect but have it in the morning boom up it shoots. Today he got told no bread have mushrooms and toms and a sausage. That will not fill his tummy. She said how. About french toast ? Thats eggs so no. He wont eat greek style yogurt and does not want fruit for breakfast. She had ruled out bananas and apples and in the next breath said nothing is off limits. Just watch potions size.
Totally utterly confused .com now. I am following the exact same diet as him. I just cannot sit in front of him eating stuff he wants and cannot have.

 

[Leadinglights]

Evening lovely folks,
I am hoping you can come up with some ideas on what to give my hubby for breakfast. The nutritionist has not been a lot of help. Her answer was eat vegetables With a slice of toast. Who the heck wants to eat veg for breakfast. I suppose some might , but my hubby certainly wont. His face was a picture. He cannot eat eggs, he does not eat fish.Before this nightmare began he had cereal and a slice of toast. We tried everything we could find that was lowest on carbs shreddies , weetabix , porridge , cornflakes sugar shot up like a rocket. So then we reduced it size wise till it was not worth dirtying the dish, 30g is nothing and left him very hungr sausage and two Tbs of no added sugar baked beans, shot up to 17. Tried ditto bread with a slice of edam on top went up to 15. Was told to eat real porridge at night to prevent the hypos of 3.5 during night. Had little effect but have it in the morning boom up it shoots. Today he got told no bread have mushrooms and toms and a sausage. That will not fill his tummy. She said how. About french toast ? Thats eggs so no. He wont eat greek style yogurt and does not want fruit for breakfast. She had ruled out bananas and apples and in the next breath said nothing is off limits. Just watch potions size.
Totally utterly confused .com now. I am following the exact same diet as him. I just cannot sit in front of him eating stuff he wants and cannot have.

The problem really is that he is not on an insulin regime that will allow him to eat normally which would be the basal insulin to cover the background and a bolus insulin to cover the carbohydrates in the meals he has.
Obviously that needs a bit more work in working out the amount of carbs in his meals and working out the insulin dose according to the ratio his nurse has suggested but with such high levels from foods you should be pressing for that regime.
It sounds as if he has restricted tastes in foods but he could have bacon, high meat content sausages and tomatoes or mushrooms for breakfast. There are some high protein low carb yoghurts which are filling to which you could add some berries.
Keto Hana granola is very low carb but a bit expensive so I mix 50/50 with a low sugar granola like Lizi's.
or Cooked meat and cheese with 1 slice of toast .

 

[Drummer]

I understand that your husband is type 2 on insulin, but not dosing for meals, basal but no bolus, in the lingo.
I had decided not to suggest anything because it is rather complicated and with the insulin there are lows at night, but he's getting highs after eating - and it reads as though your adviser is rather out of her depth.
I feel that I'm on familiar ground with the foods you have tried causing spikes after eating - that is exactly what I found in the early days after diagnosis. Not so much these days, but it is 5 years now.
Basically, meals with protein and fat keep me from being hungry. I do not have to fill my stomach, I can go 12 hours without eating quite happily. The foods I chose are low carb, so I don't see spikes.
The sort of things I ate in the hot weather were salad with ham or cold meat from dinner the previous evening.
Now it is getting colder I have steak or a chop and stir fry or mushrooms, or both.
Baked beans are quite high carb even without sugar - I have not eaten them very often in my life, not at all for years now, likewise things made from grain as they would raise my blood glucose levels.

It might seem odd to have what I now think of as real food rather than the type of thing we have been educated to regard as morning foods. All I can tell you is that they work for me.
I get the Lidl frozen stir fry packs - they come in three styles or flavours.
If you can find something low carb enough not to cause spikes, that will at least remove one worry from your day, and hopefully help until you can get back to your doctor and sort out treatment rather than having go through the ping pong high low throughout every 24 hours.
You are obviously watching him like a hawk.
I hope that things can be resolved very soon.

 

[Mafanwy]

I understand that your husband is type 2 on insulin, but not dosing for meals, basal but no bolus, in the lingo.
I had decided not to suggest anything because it is rather complicated and with the insulin there are lows at night, but he's getting highs after eating - and it reads as though your adviser is rather out of her depth.
I feel that I'm on familiar ground with the foods you have tried causing spikes after eating - that is exactly what I found in the early days after diagnosis. Not so much these days, but it is 5 years now.
Basically, meals with protein and fat keep me from being hungry. I do not have to fill my stomach, I can go 12 hours without eating quite happily. The foods I chose are low carb, so I don't see spikes.
The sort of things I ate in the hot weather were salad with ham or cold meat from dinner the previous evening.
Now it is getting colder I have steak or a chop and stir fry or mushrooms, or both.
Baked beans are quite high carb even without sugar - I have not eaten them very often in my life, not at all for years now, likewise things made from grain as they would raise my blood glucose levels.

It might seem odd to have what I now think of as real food rather than the type of thing we have been educated to regard as morning foods. All I can tell you is that they work for me.
I get the Lidl frozen stir fry packs - they come in three styles or flavours.
If you can find something low carb enough not to cause spikes, that will at least remove one worry from your day, and hopefully help until you can get back to your doctor and sort out treatment rather than having go through the ping pong high low throughout every 24 hours.
You are obviously watching him like a hawk.
I hope that things can be resolved very soon.

we are so grateful for both the replies we had. 2.30 am reader alarm went off. Hardly heard it , its so quiet no volume control just off on. Had two biscuits like instructed and whosh immediately shot up to yellow. I don'tthink they have got insulin right. Its been since nov 14 th this has been going on. They say its trail an error but surely by now they should be able to know what to give him. The librelink is given by hospital team and being monitored by them. They only call when I leave them a message and that takes a day before they do. Came home on 50 then 40,, 30,28,20,18,16,18 . Changed insulin to Humlin i at 28 ,two weeks ago
we have had two video link calls from the nutritionist because parking at hospital is impossible. We went two weeks ago and parking was so far away that we were both utterly exhausted trying to get to clinic. I am disabled myself and he has heart issues. Both of us have also had a stroke. This just is not fair. We are fighting a incoming tide by ourselves. The hospital said you are not alone, we are here to support you and yet here we are night after night getting very disturbed sleep . Why the hell is it dropping at night, he did nothing last night to cause this drop. I rung last Thursday morning urgent and it was friday 6pm before someone rung. Come Friday till monday get on with it theres no one on call.
Don't meet the diabetic dr till Jan 23. 03.35. They didnt offer a reader till the alarm on app played up. I asked the nutritionist can we sometimes go out for a meal, its our one pleasure to go out for lunch . Her answer was " Yes of course nothing is off limits. What would he have ? told her and she answered ok but ask for childs dinner. Told her they do not let adults have childs meal." Could you share a plate ? " She asked . No they do not allow that. So she said " eat a 1/4 of it but eat the veg l if a meat pie just eat the filling. " I said so if he has fish n chips only time he eats fish. Its in batter and its either chips or baked potato " her answer was 4-6 chips or half the potato and leave the rest.
so pay £15 for your meal and leave 3/4 on the plate. Nope not happening, what a waste of time and money. Rather not go. Another pleasure out the window. He is now depressed and feels he has ruined our life . He hasnt diabetis has. His heart op caused him to turn diabetic . 3.52 am and both still awake. We are exhausted. Sorry for length of letter.

 

[Lucyr]

Did he do a blood test before eating the 2 biscuits at 2:30? He might not have been low he might have just been lying on the sensor.

 

[DaveB]

Hi. How about bacon and sausages for breakfast or similar. No toast or cereal. It sounds like he does eat fish but it needs to be the right 'type'. Try to find the most suitable. Keep trying to find the right proteins and with fat. BTW I've never had much time for nutritionists as many haven't a clue; have a look at the nutrition advice on their professional association websites - useless for diabetes.

 

[Mafanwy]

Did he do a blood test before eating the 2 biscuits at 2:30? He might not have been low he might have just been lying on the sensor.

No the sensor was on bedside table and said 3.7 and the DN set the level of not to go under 4.5 checked it on reader and on app both said the same. We were told he had to eat two biscuits. Within 4 mins it screamed scan so we did and it shot up to 5.3. On both ! Its been rising steadly since. When he got up it read 8.4 yet he had eaten nothing but those two told to have biscuits . At half past 3 am it was 7.8. So far breakfast and diatican told him yesterday to have insulin after food poo whooed having it before. So he had a small sausage 2 plum toms one and half big mushroom and it nothing else and it went up to 9.5 before food to 11.7 an hour later. Understandably we are fed up ! He cannot win. Have rung and waiting in vain for a call back from someone. Thank you for taking the trouble to write.

 

[rebrascora]

No the sensor was on bedside table and said 3.7 and the DN set the level of not to go under 4.5 checked it on reader and on app both said the same. We were told he had to eat two biscuits. Within 4 mins it screamed scan so we did and it shot up to 5.3.

You really need to learn to double check with a finger prick when the Libre reader says he is low during the night. If he lies on the arm with the sensor on it, the pressure can cause the Libre to start reading low when his blood glucose levels have not actually gone low. If you give him hypo treatment when he is not actually hypo then his levels will rebound high because he had carbs when he didn't need to, so it is always important to double check with a finger prick unless he clearly feels hypo.

You say that his levels shot up to 5.3 after eating the biscuits. If this was the Libre reader showing that rise, then I would guess that this may have been a compression low, because Libre usually takes about half an hour to show that you have recovered from a hypo after hypo treatment, but if it is a compression low then it will usually jump back up to it's previous level within minutes of you releasing the pressure and normal blood flow returning to the compressed tissue under the sensor.

It might be helpful to understand, that one digestive biscuit is about 10g carbs and that will usually raise your BG levels by about 3mmols in the absence of insulin, so if his levels were genuinely 3.7 10g carbs in one of those biscuits would take him up to about 6.7 and 2 biscuits might take him up to 9.7, so a waking reading in the 8s would not be unreasonable assuming his basal insulin or perhaps his own insulin production if he still has some may have also helped out and brought it down a bit.

As regards the problems with breakfast.....
When does he inject his insulin? If he doesn't inject it until after he has got up and got washed and dressed and about to have breakfast, then his liver will have been pumping out glucose all that time with nothing to deal with it. I appreciate that he is only on Humulin I but the sooner he gets that injected on a morning, the sooner it will get working, so if he doesn't already, try injecting that the moment he wakes up as this will give it the best chance to start dealing with this dump of glucose from his liver which is referred to as Dawn Phenomenon or Foot on the Floor syndrome. which stems back to prehistoric times when we didn't have kitchen's and fridges full of food and needed to go out and hunt or gather our first meal of the day and this gave us energy to fuel our muscles, but we don't need all that energy to walk into the kitchen and those of us who are diabetic don't produce enough insulin to bring it down, so our levels steadily climb. Sometimes it starts before we get up but for me, it happens the minute I set foot out of bed hence "Foot On The Floor" syndrome or FOTF as we often refer to it as. I often set my alarm to inject my insulin an hour before I get up because it takes a while for the insulin to get going whereas the glucose tends to start rising almost immediately and I find this helps me to keep my morning levels under better control.
He might find that this enables him to have a reasonable breakfast without so much of a rise, but if you try this and his levels continue to shoot up and I mean mid teens and then come back down, then maybe an additional insulin to cover his meals would be a good idea, but that does take a bit more thought to work out doses etc so if he can manage by adjusting when he injects his current insulin then that might be better.

Do double check those lows through the night though with a finger prick and if they are below 4 then 3 jelly babies would be better than biscuits because they act quicker. You should then retest with another fingerprick 15mins later to make sure his levels have come back up because Libre takes too long to show the hypo treatment has worked. If the finger prick shows his levels are still below 4 15 mins after the jelly babies or Dextrose tablets if you have those then take another 3 JBs or 4 Dextrose tablets and test again 15mins later again with the finger pricker.

If you would like to post a photo of his Libre graph from last night we may well be able to tell if it was a compression low or a real hypo from the profile of the graph.

 

[Lucyr]

No the sensor was on bedside table and said 3.7 and the DN set the level of not to go under 4.5 checked it on reader and on app both said the same. We were told he had to eat two biscuits. Within 4 mins it screamed scan so we did and it shot up to 5.3. On both ! Its been rising steadly since. When he got up it read 8.4 yet he had eaten nothing but those two told to have biscuits . At half past 3 am it was 7.8. So far breakfast and diatican told him yesterday to have insulin after food poo whooed having it before. So he had a small sausage 2 plum toms one and half big mushroom and it nothing else and it went up to 9.5 before food to 11.7 an hour later. Understandably we are fed up ! He cannot win. Have rung and waiting in vain for a call back from someone. Thank you for taking the trouble to write.

He needs to check with a fingerprick, the blood test, when it says he is low and not just scan with the reader or app. The sensor can read lower than the blood sugar actually is.

 

[helli]

No the sensor was on bedside table and said 3.7 and the DN set the level of not to go under 4.5 checked it on reader and on app both said the same.

I think you are confusing the Sensor with the Reader.
The sensor is the disk your husband has in his arm. This reads his levels and transmits them to the reaer or phone app which is on his bedside table.
If you apply pressure to the sensor (in his arm), it can report a false low. This is called a compression low and can happen when we lie on our sensor whilst asleep.
This is one of the reasons why it is recommended to checks lows (and high) alerts from the Libre before treating.

You also mentioned you treated it with a biscuit. If this was a real hypo (low) it must be treated with fast acting carbs such as jellybabies or dextrose or fruit juice.
Biscuits contain fat which slows down the absorption of the sugar which can prolong a hypo.

 

[Mafanwy]

Helli I do know the thing on his arm is the sensor I am not confusing them. I know how it works .I am the one applying the sensor in conjunction the read and app BUT the diabetic nurse did not tell us to do a finger prick test ! Told us to use those biscuits. I would never have bought them otherwize. It would not occur to me to give him biscuits ! We were not told a thing about a compression low. These nurses phone us after a low and not once have they questioned where it was placed or mention this compression low. I will move the sensor yet again. Tonight I will prick his finger if it happens. Give him jellybabies if the blood test proves it is low. Since the 14 th of nov he has been having hypos at night and those nurses know it. Why the hell didn't they ask this question ?. Is he laying on his sensor ? It makes me really cross , he is not being looked after thats obvious. How am I now to trust them. They set up the app and the reader. They taught us how to apply the sensor and thanks to libre have had to apply quite a few. He isnt laying on the senor I put it on the side he does not lay on anyway, but incase he did turn over I will move it Provided the surgery agree to give us another. Thank you for answering its very helpful.

 

[Mafanwy]

He needs to check with a fingerprick, the blood test, when it says he is low and not just scan with the reader or app. The sensor can read lower than the blood sugar actually is.

Thank you for answering I will finger prick tonight.

 

[rebrascora]

Some nurses don't know this stuff, especially if it is a nurse at your GP practice rather than a specialist nurse at the diabetes clinic at the hospital and even then they may not know. It is only people who use Libre ie ourselves, who are really aware of the limitations of the Libre system. I think sometimes nurses don't want to make things more complicated by telling you things that might not be a problem because you can easily get overloaded with information with diabetes.

I would not remove that sensor. They cost a lot of money (£35 each) and you could oput a new sensor on somewhere else where he might lie on it. We all move around during the night to a greater or lesser extent. The important thing is to double check any lows it alarms you to during the night before you eat jelly babies x3 or dextrose tablets x4 if he is actually below 4. A biscuit would be fine between 4 and 4.5, but you can just as easily use jelly babies above 4, so it is often easier just to have those handy. The only time a biscuit might be used is to prevent his levels dropping again after his hypo has been treated with fast acting carbs (Jelly babies etc) .

 

[DaveB]

Hi. Two biscuits would have the same effect on BS for me as you found. I would just have one or two Dextrose glucose tablets. Also, it is normal to take insulin before meals and not after unless a further correction dose is needed. Take it 15 to 30 minutes before if you are taking carbs as part of the meal.

 

[rebrascora]

Hi. Two biscuits would have the same effect on BS for me as you found. I would just have one or two Dextrose glucose tablets. Also, it is normal to take insulin before meals and not after unless a further correction dose is needed. Take it 15 to 30 minutes before if you are taking carbs as part of the meal.

I don't believe the OP's husband is on a mealtime insulin, just Humulin I which is a medium term basal insulin, so the time it is taken relative to food is not relevant. If it was a mixed insulin taking it before meals would be important as with a bolus insulin, but as I understand it Humulin I is effectively a basal insulin.

 

[Mafanwy]

The problem really is that he is not on an insulin regime that will allow him to eat normally which would be the basal insulin to cover the background and a bolus insulin to cover the carbohydrates in the meals he has.
Obviously that needs a bit more work in working out the amount of carbs in his meals and working out the insulin dose according to the ratio his nurse has suggested but with such high levels from foods you should be pressing for that regime.
It sounds as if he has restricted tastes in foods but he could have bacon, high meat content sausages and tomatoes or mushrooms for breakfast. There are some high protein low carb yoghurts which are filling to which you could add some berries.
Keto Hana granola is very low carb but a bit expensive so I mix 50/50 with a low sugar granola like Lizi's.
or Cooked meat and cheese with 1 slice of toast .

Thank you, where do I buy that granola Keto. I will pay it if he can eat it. Which make is high protein low carb yogurt ? For breakfast today he had one high meat sausage , two flat mushrooms and two tinned toms. It still rose up but he had no bread or cereal. His tummy growled all morning.

 

[Mafanwy]

I don't believe the OP's husband is on a mealtime insulin, just Humulin I which is a medium term basal insulin, so the time it is taken relative to food is not relevant. If it was a mixed insulin taking it before meals would be important as with a bolus insulin, but as I understand it Humulin I is effectively a basal insulin.

Dave the hospital nurse and dietician both said it does not matter before or after. I agree before must be better, that makes more sense to me. He has it once a day.

 

[Mafanwy]

Some nurses don't know this stuff, especially if it is a nurse at your GP practice rather than a specialist nurse at the diabetes clinic at the hospital and even then they may not know. It is only people who use Libre ie ourselves, who are really aware of the limitations of the Libre system. I think sometimes nurses don't want to make things more complicated by telling you things that might not be a problem because you can easily get overloaded with information with diabetes.

I would not remove that sensor. They cost a lot of money (£35 each) and you could oput a new sensor on somewhere else where he might lie on it. We all move around during the night to a greater or lesser extent. The important thing is to double check any lows it alarms you to during the night before you eat jelly babies x3 or dextrose tablets x4 if he is actually below 4. A biscuit would be fine between 4 and 4.5, but you can just as easily use jelly babies above 4, so it is often easier just to have those handy. The only time a biscuit might be used is to prevent his levels dropping again after his hypo has been treated with fast acting carbs (Jelly babies etc) .

We did not remove it. We thought about it and who's to stay he still will not lay on it. We put it on the side he does not lay on. The surgery will have a dicky fit if i ask for more.
we decided that if the reader and the app have the same reading then it must be correct. If they are different then a blood test too.
so grateful for the help you all are giving to us. Bless you

 

[Drummer]

Thank you, where do I buy that granola Keto. I will pay it if he can eat it. Which make is high protein low carb yogurt ? For breakfast today he had one high meat sausage , two flat mushrooms and two tinned toms. It still rose up but he had no bread or cereal. His tummy growled all morning.

I have three sausages and half a pack of stir fry for a meal - but I only eat twice a day.
Protein should help reduce hunger.
I get Co-op sausages as they are low carb and not overly peppered.
The poor man must be exhausted with high BG in the mornings and hypos at night with alarms going off.

 

[Lucyr]

we decided that if the reader and the app have the same reading then it must be correct. If they are different then a blood test too.

I don’t know why you’re ifnoreing all the explanations of why you need to double check hypos and not just rely on libre. That isn’t how it works, the reader and the app are both reading from the sensor. They give the same result because they’re both reading the sensor. The sensor isn’t in contact with blood, so it’s only estimating your blood sugar and isn’t always correct especially with lows and especially in bed.

A fingerprick test is done on actual blood and is the only way to find out if libre lows are actually low or not.