Very low carb intake, but not loosing weight

[Dragonheart]

Perhaps I’m setting expectations a bit high and trying too hard.
When I look back at what is likely to have caused this, broadly speaking I ate my way into it, sort of sleep walked. I was having a pizza one day a week, a madras curry with pilau rice another day, and this was repeated on a weekly basis. I also developed a liking for tomato soup, from a can, and three or four slices of bread to help it down. And at least two or three days I’d have a toasted tea cake mid afternoon. All that junk has been removed, and I’m now leading a healthier diet. I have five months to by next blood test, but I’m having monthly appointments with diet/diabetic coach. I was advised to get down to 12st 10lbs but didn’t give me a time scale.

Well it certainly sounds like you’re making progress having ditched those previous meals. And so long a the direction of travel is the right one you’ll get there. Well done.

Are you testing the results of your changes on a meter? That’s ultimately what will tell you in real time which foods are helping and which are hindering you with no opinions just facts. Testing before the meal and after shows you what effect it had. A healthy non diabetic is usually back to their pre meal reading within 2 hrs. So we aim to come as close to this as we can and within 2mmol considered a suitable meal. Much more and you probably need to reduce the carb elements of the meal.

A lot of us that remove a lot of carbs (aka glucose) from our diets find that weight loss follows automatically the lower blood glucose levels rather than the nhs focus on reducing the weight first. The reasoning being if we choose foods our T2 diabetic bodies can cope with they can use that fuel rather than have glucose stuck in the blood unused (because we don’t deal well with glucose) and turning to body fat as a result.

 

[trophywench]

Why are folk saying Ryvita are high carb?

Most around 6g carb apiece so 'a couple' of them is either 2 or 3, so 18g carb max. I don't call that 'high' !

 

[Exflex]

Well it certainly sounds like you’re making progress having ditched those previous meals. And so long a the direction of travel is the right one you’ll get there. Well done.

Are you testing the results of your changes on a meter? That’s ultimately what will tell you in real time which foods are helping and which are hindering you with no opinions just facts. Testing before the meal and after shows you what effect it had. A healthy non diabetic is usually back to their pre meal reading within 2 hrs. So we aim to come as close to this as we can and within 2mmol considered a suitable meal. Much more and you probably need to reduce the carb elements of the meal.

A lot of us that remove a lot of carbs (aka glucose) from our diets find that weight loss follows automatically the lower blood glucose levels rather than the nhs focus on reducing the weight first. The reasoning being if we choose foods our T2 diabetic bodies can cope with they can use that fuel rather than have glucose stuck in the blood unused (because we don’t deal well with glucose) and turning to body fat as a result.

I’ve purchased one of those finger prick test kits but haven’t started using it yet. Having read your reply I think I will as it will give me a steer about food and tolerance.

 

[Dragonheart]

Why are folk saying Ryvita are high carb?

Most around 6g carb apiece so 'a couple' of them is either 2 or 3, so 18g carb max. I don't call that 'high' !

Because they are 67.5% carbs (7g each on the variety I just looked up), which is in no way a low carb item.

A slice of bread is 45% carbs or 18g per slice but twice the size and less dense/heavy. So for the same area of topping carrier it’s debatable if it’s much improvement.

Yes a small enough portion of ryvita might not raise your daily count by a great deal but the same could be said of sugar for example. One teaspoon won’t add a lot to your count but would you call that a low carb item? Or the bread?

These high % foods are the ones we need to be very aware of portion size. Either to dose accordingly with insulin as a type 1 or limit to small portions as a type 2 using diet as a control method.

 

[Eddy Edson]

Because they are 67.5% carbs (7g each on the variety I just looked up), which is in no way a low carb item.

A slice of bread is 45% carbs or 18g per slice but twice the size and less dense/heavy. So for the same area of topping carrier it’s debatable if it’s much improvement.

Yes a small enough portion of ryvita might not raise your daily count by a great deal but the same could be said of sugar for example. One teaspoon won’t add a lot to your count but would you call that a low carb item? Or the bread?

These high % foods are the ones we need to be very aware of portion size. Either to dose accordingly with insulin as a type 1 or limit to small portions as a type 2 using diet as a control method.

Yes, if you have a carb target of 130g per day, you'd only need 19 Ryvita's to go over!!

Ryvita - the carb-bloated crispbead of evil.

 

[Lucyr]

Why are folk saying Ryvita are high carb?

Most around 6g carb apiece so 'a couple' of them is either 2 or 3, so 18g carb max. I don't call that 'high' !

Because most people on here are overly obsessed with carbs. My favourite popcorn is 57% carb which according to this lot is probably very high carb.

But a standard sized packet weighs 10g and contains 5.7g carb. You’d have to eat 23 packets of popcorn to even reach the 130g that’s classed as low carb. No one is eating 23 bags of popcorn a day

 

[Dragonheart]

Because most people on here are overly obsessed with carbs. My favourite popcorn is 57% carb which according to this lot is probably very high carb.

But a standard sized packet weighs 10g and contains 5.7g carb. You’d have to eat 23 packets of popcorn to even reach the 130g that’s classed as low carb. No one is eating 23 bags of popcorn a day

When carbs are a persons only means of controlling blood sugars you may call it obsessed, others may call it knowledgeable or aware. Now for some this may not apply - fill you boots in which case. However for many type 2 wishing to avoid the “progressive” outcome seen on medication based control it very much does. Some need to eat significantly less than 130g a day to achieve that control as well. So no need for snark thanks.

A high carb item can be included in a low carb diet - provided it’s in a quantity suitable for your overall tolerance/allowance.

That doesn’t change the fact it’s a high carb item for which you have to be mindful of and adjust accordingly.

 

[Dragonheart]

But a standard sized packet weighs 10g and contains 5.7g carb. You’d have to eat 23 packets of popcorn to even reach the 130g that’s classed as low carb. No one is eating 23 bags of popcorn a day

Presumably most of us would like to eat some food (which would include some carbs) that isn’t popcorn.

Using silly extremes and assuming everyone low carb goes the the maximum end of that category is not helpful.

 

[trophywench]

I got myself banned by 'another UK diabetes forum' (has a 'co' in its ULR) years and years ago and still am, for daring to suggest that people vary as to how much of what carb they can each handle and not everyone everywhere in the world has to count every 1g just because they're at risk of D or even if they already have it. Knowing me I most likely told them they were being daft.

 

[dalebyrne88]

Here's one suggestion how many steps you getting in daily because even a 40 minute walk could be slow and not enough. Some people say getting 10k in will help massively because looking at your food choices they don't seem high calories.

 

[helli]

Here's one suggestion how many steps you getting in daily because even a 40 minute walk could be slow and not enough. Some people say getting 10k in will help massively because looking at your food choices they don't seem high calories.

I thought it was not about how many steps or what distance but about time spent with a raised heart rate. The distance/speed/steps depends upon the person: an elite athlete could run 5km with little impact whereas someone who has just started out doing any exercise could find their heart rate is raised with a 500m walk.

 

[Dragonheart]

Knowing me I most likely told them they were being daft.

Could that perhaps have the cause of the ban rather than the reasonable view people vary? That same forum often has that exact opinion expressed without bans.

 

[trophywench]

Could that perhaps have the cause of the ban rather than the reasonable view people vary? That same forum often has that exact opinion expressed without bans.

Well I'm pleased to hear that.

 

[BananaManatee]

Then the penny dropped. Perhaps I’m having too many calories.
Dietary intake yesterday:
Breakfast: blueberries with Greek Yoghurt, plus a mere sprinkling of porridge oats.
Lunch: Sardines with 4 Ryvita
Evening meal: 2 beef burgers, cauliflower rice and a beef tomato; 2 glasses of red wine.

Weight stubbornly at 13st 3ibs = 84kg, height ~ 5’ 11”
Walking for 40 minutes each day.

Long read


I go onto a fat loss diet generally once or twice a year. I weight train to add muscle which comes with some (or more than some if I've been a bit greedy) fat gain. Actually the last time I did it I was about same weight as you (at 5ft 9) and to get lean I lost 18lbs, which took 3 months. I'm t1d but dont do low carb but i'll outline my strategy as it can be adopted to lower carb or lower fat. Its never failed me because errrrr science, and should work for most people barring complicated metabolisms and (caveat Im male ) and any female menstrual (caveat reminder, Im male) errrr, stuff, that may interfere with weight loss. These numbers may need to adjusted if you were seriously overweight, eg If you're 300lbs you probably shouldn't be eating 300g protein a day on a diet based on the below.

It takes a little math and discipline but you don't need to go hungry. I barely get hungry on it and I like food.
Also you want to lose fat, not weight. Weight is fat, water, bone (dont lose those), muscle (or that). Keeping muscle helps burn more calories. Keeping bones helps to not be floppy.

Download food tracking app, I use my fitness pal. It's free, don't upgrade. If you're in the UK it allows you to scan bar codes of packets. Just ensure you are inputting the right amount/portion, its worth a check as users can input foods and some people do not have a scooby doo on what they are inputting.

The maths bit;

Your body weight (BW) in pounds (lb) x 11ccal = total daily calories (cal).
This is a good formula for the not obese to lose weight. I dont know what a good formula is for the obese to lose weight.

185lbs (your weight) x 11 = 2035, we can round that up to 2050 cals daily.

calories per 1 gram of macro;
carbs = 4 cal per 1 gram
protein = 4 cal (that's 1 gram of protein, not 1 gram of chicken, or 1 gram beef)
fat = 9 cal (the world would be a better place if only fat was 4 cals too)

Protein;
Quite high protein because your body wants to lose muscle (losing weight) during a calorie deficit so higher protein means more muscle retained. And you want avoid becoming thinner but having less muscle.

1g protein per lb BW
185g (x4 calories) = 740 cal of protein.

The we can divide remaining cals between carbs and fat as like

Bear in mind that as you lower calories and lose fat your body may become less insulin resistant and may handle carbs better. Here's an example for you based but its not very low carb but you can adjust. The principle is the maths used.

Carbs;
Im going 100g here because maths is easier.
100g x 4 cal = 400 cal of carbs per day
-running total cals fat 740 + carbs 400 =1140cals

Fat
We've used 1140 calories from our 2050 allowance which leaves us ....
910 calories
divide that by 9 (remember 9 calories per gram of fat) and we have .....

protein = 185g = 740cal
carbs = 100g = 400cal
fat 100g = 900cal (rounded)
Total cals 2040
(youve got 10 cals left over !! - ooooooh a stick of celery snack, yay !!)

You can switch the cals for carbs and fat around, but hit the protein. Try to spread the protein evenly (ish) through the day to help stop cravings. Personally i dont eat breakfast and instead drink coffee to curb my appetite until lunch. Not an option for all though.

Oh yes, the 2 glasses of wine a day. Alcohol has 7cals per 1g of alcohol. Lets call your glass 150ml (im being conservative) and it has 12% alcohol but lets call is 10%.
10% 150ml = 15ml, which is pretty much 1g per 1ml anyway, so 15 x 7(cals) = 150 calories in that conservative glass of wine.
Two glasses is 300cals (plus carb cals), thats over 10% of daily cals that could fill you up with chicken or burgers. I know what id rather have on a diet; (beer fed chicken burgers). I mean food. I don't drink calories to lose weight, i drink them to gain weight.

Aim for 0.5 to 1% a week average weight loss, this will help stop rebound weight. This will mean a slower diet but you wont starve and can rarely feel hungry. Learn to snack on stuff like celery and cornichons, sugar free jelly, you know, the fun stuff.
If you are losing more than 2lb a week (at your weight) then up the cals by 100 cals a day. If you dont see ay weight loss for a few weeks, lower the cals by 100 - or make sure you are tracking accurately and honestly. If you had a lot more fat you'd want to lose a higher % of fat

As weight loss happens you may need to recalculate the above - if now at 170lb but eating the calories for 185lb person to lose weight, fat loss may stall. But rinse the higher calorie level for as long as possible.

Its not linear, you might not see any weight loss for a week then whoosh, overnight it falls off. This is because as the fat disappears it can be replaced by fluid, which also then disappears. The whoosh effect. I like to weigh everyday and record the numbers. Generally i'd see a day with a lower low each week. This isn't for everyone as some people become fixated on numbers. You could stay the same number but your measurements say you are losing weight so dont fixate. If you're a number fixated person weigh once a week, same day, after waking, after morning wee. Best to use measurements and photos to track also. Dont have to use any of this, if you look inthe mirror and it looks like its working all good.

Try to do some resistance/ strength training for your ability level. Nothing crazy but it will help send signals to your body to keep muscle. IMO it's better to use time retaining muscle than doing excess cardio (other than walking) that adds extra stress to your already stressed body (its doesn't like calorie deficits, who does). Keep up the walking, great for fat loss.

Once at your goal I'd suggest to work back up to maintenance calories gradually over a month, (13 - 15 cals per lb bodyweight). This will help not gain rebound weight. Then stay at maintenace. Its worth keep on tracking food IMO.

I use those cup / half cup measures. I know 1 cup of cooked rice is 40g for example. I also weigh my food. Its sound like a chore, and it is but after a month or so it's 2nd nature just quickly using an electronic scale and its gets you to where you want to be quicker than guessing. After a while you can eyeball it or you already have it in MFP and just use whats already in there.

Have a break 8 to 12 weeks (if youre going longer than that) from tracking your food. . It helps mentally and can rest the metabolism that getting sluggish. You may gain a pound or 2 but then your metabolism will be refreshed and ready to go. I prefer this approach to cheat days which can add back in an hour all those cals you've avoided all week ruining all your hard work. Although if you have social event etc then its not diet over. Just get back on it next day.

Its probably easier than it sounds. Oh yeah, remove any stuff such as biscuits, crisps far from the house. Just use things like jelly babies for any hypos and avoid biscuits, chocolate etc that contain additional fat.

If you take insulin its likely you'll need to reduce basal over time so keep an eye on that. At least I have to.

I find not eating breakfast works for me, then if I have any left over cals I have later in the day. Also helps to save some for night to avoid night hypos.

This is what works for me. At the end of the day the best diet is the one you can adhere to, that helps you lose fat.

Actually the best diet is the one where you eat cakes pies chocolate crisps curries chips drink booze and it doesn't raise your glucose and make you gain fat.

 

[Drummer]

God, this is looking like had work!

Once on track it is really easy - I've seen that for many people getting rid of the high carb foods suddenly opens up a whole range of possible meals to indulge in.
I have seafood fairly regularly in the warmer months and for the same amount of carbs as 4 Ryvitas I can have salad and a dessert with it.
When I met up with the nurse with the weighing scales and she blurted out that I'd lost 90lb I was rather astonished, as it was without trying, or even thinking about it.

 

[Leadinglights]

Long read


I go onto a fat loss diet generally once or twice a year. I weight train to add muscle which comes with some (or more than some if I've been a bit greedy) fat gain. Actually the last time I did it I was about same weight as you (at 5ft 9) and to get lean I lost 18lbs, which took 3 months. I'm t1d but dont do low carb but i'll outline my strategy as it can be adopted to lower carb or lower fat. Its never failed me because errrrr science, and should work for most people barring complicated metabolisms and (caveat Im male ) and any female menstrual (caveat reminder, Im male) errrr, stuff, that may interfere with weight loss. These numbers may need to adjusted if you were seriously overweight, eg If you're 300lbs you probably shouldn't be eating 300g protein a day on a diet based on the below.

It takes a little math and discipline but you don't need to go hungry. I barely get hungry on it and I like food.
Also you want to lose fat, not weight. Weight is fat, water, bone (dont lose those), muscle (or that). Keeping muscle helps burn more calories. Keeping bones helps to not be floppy.

Download food tracking app, I use my fitness pal. It's free, don't upgrade. If you're in the UK it allows you to scan bar codes of packets. Just ensure you are inputting the right amount/portion, its worth a check as users can input foods and some people do not have a scooby doo on what they are inputting.

The maths bit;

Your body weight (BW) in pounds (lb) x 11ccal = total daily calories (cal).
This is a good formula for the not obese to lose weight. I dont know what a good formula is for the obese to lose weight.

185lbs (your weight) x 11 = 2035, we can round that up to 2050 cals daily.

calories per 1 gram of macro;
carbs = 4 cal per 1 gram
protein = 4 cal (that's 1 gram of protein, not 1 gram of chicken, or 1 gram beef)
fat = 9 cal (the world would be a better place if only fat was 4 cals too)

Protein;
Quite high protein because your body wants to lose muscle (losing weight) during a calorie deficit so higher protein means more muscle retained. And you want avoid becoming thinner but having less muscle.

1g protein per lb BW
185g (x4 calories) = 740 cal of protein.

The we can divide remaining cals between carbs and fat as like

Bear in mind that as you lower calories and lose fat your body may become less insulin resistant and may handle carbs better. Here's an example for you based but its not very low carb but you can adjust. The principle is the maths used.

Carbs;
Im going 100g here because maths is easier.
100g x 4 cal = 400 cal of carbs per day
-running total cals fat 740 + carbs 400 =1140cals

Fat
We've used 1140 calories from our 2050 allowance which leaves us ....
910 calories
divide that by 9 (remember 9 calories per gram of fat) and we have .....

protein = 185g = 740cal
carbs = 100g = 400cal
fat 100g = 900cal (rounded)
Total cals 2040
(youve got 10 cals left over !! - ooooooh a stick of celery snack, yay !!)

You can switch the cals for carbs and fat around, but hit the protein. Try to spread the protein evenly (ish) through the day to help stop cravings. Personally i dont eat breakfast and instead drink coffee to curb my appetite until lunch. Not an option for all though.

Oh yes, the 2 glasses of wine a day. Alcohol has 7cals per 1g of alcohol. Lets call your glass 150ml (im being conservative) and it has 12% alcohol but lets call is 10%.
10% 150ml = 15ml, which is pretty much 1g per 1ml anyway, so 15 x 7(cals) = 150 calories in that conservative glass of wine.
Two glasses is 300cals (plus carb cals), thats over 10% of daily cals that could fill you up with chicken or burgers. I know what id rather have on a diet; (beer fed chicken burgers). I mean food. I don't drink calories to lose weight, i drink them to gain weight.

Aim for 0.5 to 1% a week average weight loss, this will help stop rebound weight. This will mean a slower diet but you wont starve and can rarely feel hungry. Learn to snack on stuff like celery and cornichons, sugar free jelly, you know, the fun stuff.
If you are losing more than 2lb a week (at your weight) then up the cals by 100 cals a day. If you dont see ay weight loss for a few weeks, lower the cals by 100 - or make sure you are tracking accurately and honestly. If you had a lot more fat you'd want to lose a higher % of fat

As weight loss happens you may need to recalculate the above - if now at 170lb but eating the calories for 185lb person to lose weight, fat loss may stall. But rinse the higher calorie level for as long as possible.

Its not linear, you might not see any weight loss for a week then whoosh, overnight it falls off. This is because as the fat disappears it can be replaced by fluid, which also then disappears. The whoosh effect. I like to weigh everyday and record the numbers. Generally i'd see a day with a lower low each week. This isn't for everyone as some people become fixated on numbers. You could stay the same number but your measurements say you are losing weight so dont fixate. If you're a number fixated person weigh once a week, same day, after waking, after morning wee. Best to use measurements and photos to track also. Dont have to use any of this, if you look inthe mirror and it looks like its working all good.

Try to do some resistance/ strength training for your ability level. Nothing crazy but it will help send signals to your body to keep muscle. IMO it's better to use time retaining muscle than doing excess cardio (other than walking) that adds extra stress to your already stressed body (its doesn't like calorie deficits, who does). Keep up the walking, great for fat loss.

Once at your goal I'd suggest to work back up to maintenance calories gradually over a month, (13 - 15 cals per lb bodyweight). This will help not gain rebound weight. Then stay at maintenace. Its worth keep on tracking food IMO.

I use those cup / half cup measures. I know 1 cup of cooked rice is 40g for example. I also weigh my food. Its sound like a chore, and it is but after a month or so it's 2nd nature just quickly using an electronic scale and its gets you to where you want to be quicker than guessing. After a while you can eyeball it or you already have it in MFP and just use whats already in there.

Have a break 8 to 12 weeks (if youre going longer than that) from tracking your food. . It helps mentally and can rest the metabolism that getting sluggish. You may gain a pound or 2 but then your metabolism will be refreshed and ready to go. I prefer this approach to cheat days which can add back in an hour all those cals you've avoided all week ruining all your hard work. Although if you have social event etc then its not diet over. Just get back on it next day.

Its probably easier than it sounds. Oh yeah, remove any stuff such as biscuits, crisps far from the house. Just use things like jelly babies for any hypos and avoid biscuits, chocolate etc that contain additional fat.

If you take insulin its likely you'll need to reduce basal over time so keep an eye on that. At least I have to.

I find not eating breakfast works for me, then if I have any left over cals I have later in the day. Also helps to save some for night to avoid night hypos.

This is what works for me. At the end of the day the best diet is the one you can adhere to, that helps you lose fat.

Actually the best diet is the one where you eat cakes pies chocolate crisps curries chips drink booze and it doesn't raise your glucose and make you gain fat.

Don't forget something which may work for you as Type 1 may be totally unsuitable for those who are Type 2 or even those who are Type 1 but not on the same insulin regime as you.

 

[PerSpinasAdAstra]

Its not linear, you might not see any weight loss for a week then whoosh, overnight it falls off. This is because as the fat disappears it can be replaced by fluid, which also then disappears. The whoosh effect.

Very good post, though I can't help myself with the 'whoosh effect'. Fat lost is not replaced by fluid. That's not how fat cells work. When losing a lot of weight your body adapts by slowing down digestion to try to extract as much energy as possible from food. Then, when some mysterious power decides it's time, the body expels a whole lot of waste in a day. It's bowel movements, that simple. Poo is wet and heavy. 'Whoosh!' 😉

 

[Dragonheart]

Very good post, though I can't help myself with the 'whoosh effect'. Fat lost is not replaced by fluid. That's not how fat cells work. When losing a lot of weight your body adapts by slowing down digestion to try to extract as much energy as possible from food. Then, when some mysterious power decides it's time, the body expels a whole lot of waste in a day. It's bowel movements, that simple. Poo is wet and heavy. 'Whoosh!' 😉

I’ve read about how fats cells, when depleted of fat do indeed temporarily take on more water as a “place holder” assuming more fat is incoming. When it doesn’t appear it releases the water and then the whoosh happens. I will add I haven’t looked for evidence this is true, but it may be. It would be an explanation for why it goes in fits and starts at least

 

[PerSpinasAdAstra]

I’ve read about how fats cells, when depleted of fat do indeed temporarily take on more water as a “place holder” assuming more fat is incoming. When it doesn’t appear it releases the water and then the whoosh happens. I will add I haven’t looked for evidence this is true, but it may be. It would be an explanation for why it goes in fits and starts at least

I can neither confirm no deny that a person, not me of course, began tracking certain metrics to investigate the causes of weight loss 'plateaus', and may or may not have reached specific conclusions 😉

A placeholder? BTW... have you taken a position on whether or not water is wet? (inside joke)

 

[Dragonheart]

A placeholder? BTW... have you taken a position on whether or not water is wet? (inside joke)

Placeholder as in the cells temporarily takes in more water to replace the fat that’s no longer there. Either the fat gets replaced or the cell releases the water (and its weight) and …whoosh. Again I say I don’t know how accurate it is but it’s a well repeated explanation

Why would you use an inside joke in a reply to a person not on the inside without an explanation? If feels pretty mean and childish as you are laughing at me, with others, publicly when I have no idea why. Were you a bully at school too?