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Ultraprocessed foods documentary

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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
Eddy Edson said:
Yes. So Hall's conclusion is that explanations having to do with salt, fat, fibre content don't work. There's something else going on, apparently not related to nutrient content in any obvious way.

If you're interested in this stuff, it's well worth looking at the conf presentation youtube I linked upthread somewhere.
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The original study claims the overeating may have been triggered by the food itself, in that the protein ratio was lower, and the way to get the same protein amount was to increase the overall amount of food eaten.
 
I’ve always thought that there’s a fatal combination of fat and sugar /refined carb that makes things irresistible, whether ultraprocessed or home made. Who doesn’t accept a second slice of cake when offered, or finish the whole pizza?
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
I didn’t hear it that way. It was a set of new connections between reward centres in the brain and those that govern food/appetite. In exactly the same way that you would see if taking a known addictive substance.

Which suggests that the sensory experience of ultraprocessed foods is literally addictive. And that the more of it you have, the more cemented those pathways become, and the more of it you crave. (It’s not like he never ate anything ultraprocessed before, it was the proportion that was different). Which makes me wonder if there may be some sort of ‘tipping point’ where moving back to eating more minimally processed (less addictive) alternatives becomes much harder. Could explain a lot of the difficulty that public health initiatives have encountered over the past 30 years or so.
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I just watched that part again.
He made the comments, that the MRI
"Linked up reward centres of his brain with areas that drive repetitive automotive behaviour"
He did comment it was something you might see in persons with an addiction.

But there was no comparison or reference to any normal behaviour, or other links, just that his had changed.
It was portrayed as the food itself caused it, it could just have been the experience was enjoyable, and yes, he did like eating things like the pizza, or the burger, I know I have some foods I prefer, and others I don't, from the width of the unprocessed to ultra processed spectrum.
I think you are right about the tipping point. After a time all you remember is the food you like to eat, and if the balance swings to junk, taste, texture, ease of eating and filling you quickly, that'll become what you want.

It was a bit like his before and after picture.
Before, standing up straight, neck stretched up, stomach pulled in, chest out, arms straight, after, slouched, head down, everything relaxed for the camera, it wasn't a like for like pose.

I'm certainly not arguing that junk food is bad, just that some of the reporting could have had a better explanation, but that's difficult to do in a one hour program.
 
Sooo - do you reckon he always has moobs and a 'beer belly' then anyway?
 
Robin said:
I’ve always thought that there’s a fatal combination of fat and sugar /refined carb that makes things irresistible, whether ultraprocessed or home made. Who doesn’t accept a second slice of cake when offered, or finish the whole pizza?
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I think you're probably right. It's fat, sugar and salt. Pizza and cake are just tastier than carrots.
Nobody ever asked for a second helping of carrots. If anyone turned down cake but asked for a second helping of carrots in my house, I'd be keeping a close eye on them. 😛

Fat, sugar, salt, chocolate....oh god....sprinkly toppings, fudge.....stop typing....fondant icing, cream, sponge....where are my car keys!!!!
 
trophywench said:
Sooo - do you reckon he always has moobs and a 'beer belly' then anyway?
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I can't comment on that, But I know I can suck mine in.

The two pictures were a give away, he was standing about two inches taller in the "before" one, then the cutaway from the "after" to him talking on camera when he was standing normally showed him looking remarkably better.
I think he altered his posture quite considerably to accentuate features, for the photographs.
 
Oh my goodness. I just watched the program with my wife.

I was born in 1953 and raised by my mother who cooked every day (and worked), every day from raw infredients. I grew up on good food. Besides ultra processed food was probablymnot available. I was as skinny as can be. I only became overweight when in later life I had an office job and ate more of the ultra processed foods as well as ultra processed sweets, cakes, etc,etc.

I was so lucky to have been born then.

However, I almost wrecked things by my later diet, now completely reveresed as are my overweight and diabetes issues AND a whole raft of other health related issues.

Could all just be coincidence, but I feel that it is not,.
 
Gwynn said:
Oh my goodness. I just watched the program with my wife.

I was born in 1953 and raised by my mother who cooked every day (and worked), every day from raw infredients. I grew up on good food. Besides ultra processed food was probablymnot available. I was as skinny as can be. I only became overweight when in later life I had an office job and ate more of the ultra processed foods as well as ultra processed sweets, cakes, etc,etc.

I was so lucky to have been born then.

However, I almost wrecked things by my later diet, now completely reveresed as are my overweight and diabetes issues AND a whole raft of other health related issues.

Could all just be coincidence, but I feel that it is not,.
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Born in the 60's
I was overweight as a child.
Unfortunately I think there are some people who do put on weight.
I do remember processed food though.
Mainly snacks, crisps, twix, the KitKat that got the mention in Brazil, chewy sweets from the corner shop, Kraft cheese triangles, but there was also the BirdsEye fish fingers, Kellogg's for breakfast, and fizzy drinks,
I lost weight when I got a part time job.
Same diet though really, but now including Vesta ready meals and tins of spaghetti sauce and curry.
I put on weight again when I moved from the field into office work.
So, ultra processed food has been a large part of my diet I would expect.
(out of curiosity I looked at the cottage cheese I had for lunch. M&S cottage cheese with prawns in a marie rose sauce. While I recognised all the contents, there were 14 of then, so even that counts as ultra processed)
 
I started to drift off to sleep towards the end, but talking of his brain scan, did he say when the last (third) one was done? Did he say that that didnt show any movement backwards to previous initial scan?
 
He said it was done a month later @dellyb and that the changes hadn’t gone away.

I, like most people, do eat some UPFs but I think the government should get involved somehow because the sheer quantity of them is shocking. Some of them are real Frankenfoods too. If they’re addictive then children and teens in particular have a struggle ahead.

We don’t need all these foods - or all the takeaway places.
 
Inka said:
He said it was done a month later @dellyb and that the changes hadn’t gone away.

I, like most people, do eat some UPFs but I think the government should get involved somehow because the sheer quantity of them is shocking. Some of them are real Frankenfoods too. If they’re addictive then children and teens in particular have a struggle ahead.

We don’t need all these foods - or all the takeaway places.
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He did say that.
He also said how pleased he was he could stop eating that food now his experiment was over, how quickly the weight fell off, and how better he felt.
It wasn't exactly someone whose brain had been rewired to be addicted to it.

He also commented on how a major study was now being funded based on his scans and tests.
That will be very interesting, as well, as his hormone results appeared to be the opposite of present beliefs.
 
I’m watching this program tonight, and debate around the details of the results aside, it’s certainly made me think about whether I can make my diet a higher proportion of unprocessed foods to see if that helps
 
travellor said:
He did say that.
He also said how pleased he was he could stop eating that food now his experiment was over, how quickly the weight fell off, and how better he felt.
It wasn't exactly someone whose brain had been rewired to be addicted to it.

He also commented on how a major study was now being funded based on his scans and tests.
That will be very interesting, as well, as his hormone results appeared to be the opposite of present beliefs.
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True, but he’s not a child or teen. I think that’s the concern - that children are being wired to seek UPFs. Some of the statistics were scary eg he said 2 out of 3 calories eaten by children/teens came from UPFs. That’s shocking.

As for adults, then I guess it’s about how much willpower, knowledge and motivation we have. There’s also the money aspect mentioned above, and the effect of social changes.
 
Does anyone know of sources of more information on the kinds of food that can cause these problems, and how to change your diet? Being constantly hungry is a big problem for me, though I think my diet is a mix of unprocessed and processed foods

E.g. yesterday I had
Breakfast: wrap with a chipolata, scrambled egg, coffee with sweetener and milk
Lunch: latte and crisps (not my standard lunch, was out)
Dinner: vegan chicken Kiev, homemade chips, veg
Snacks: yoghurt, coffee, chocolate

I’m guessing that the Kiev, yoghurt, chocolate, sweeteners, crisps, wrap (and not sure about chipolata) would be the examples of ultraprocessed foods here that could leave you wanting more, and the egg, coffee, chips, milk, veg are the examples of unprocessed or minimally processed foods that might be more satisfying?
 
Yes, I think so @Lucyr so you could look at swapping the wrap for something less processed, swapping/omitting the chipolata, having chicken with maybe a homemade sauce with your chips, etc. Little changes can work well.

As for hunger, Joel Fuhrman talks about something called ‘toxic hunger’. I’ll find his precise definition in a moment and add it here.

Found a link instead.
 
A good rule of thumb mentioned on the programme, was to look at the ingredients on the back of a packet and see if they contain anything that you wouldn’t normally keep in your own kitchen store cupboard, (examples given were monosodium glutamate, stabiliser, emulsifier, etc) and the longer the list, the more processed that food is likely to be.
 
I was born in 1953! Why wasn't I thin? So not fair. :D We relied on school dinners for food but they were 'proper' dinners then, not the muck they give them now. The only thing I wasn't keen on was the rice pudding which had huge blobs in it and the fish pie. I could take or leave the puddings, I'd rather have had two dinners. 🙂

I might have to give up cottage cheese then, one of my faves. 🙄
 
Birdy said:
I might have to give up cottage cheese then, one of my faves
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Why? I don’t think it counts as ultra processed, cheese was on the 'lightly processed' list, I think, which was for stuff that’s had something minor done to it to make it palatable or turn it into something, like turning milk into cheese or butter, and just adding a bit of salt for taste and preservation.
 
Yep - it was that ingredients comparison with what you might have in your own pantry, that struck home with me. Take something really simple like herbs - think we all know and accept that fresh herbs are seasonal so if you wish to make mint sauce, best start with freshly picked mint ...... but there again, much quicker and easier to pick up a jar of Colman's, isn't it?

Read the ingredients ..... not many of them in anyone's pantry ...... but there again how many tons/gallons of it a day will you consume when you'll only ever have a teaspoon of it every 3 weeks when you have a lamb chop?

So it isn't 'just' a matter of discarding things that have been processed (cos 1. pick mint leaves 2. wash them 3. chop them finely 4. sprinkle with half a teaspoonful of sugar 4. add vinegar and water to taste - so mint sauce is always processed!) but weighing up the pros and cons of it so you can choose properly between those that don't actually matter shedloads like the bit of mint sauce occasionally - and whether it's good for you to drink 2 litres of Coca Cola a day at the other end of the scale!
 
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