Type 3c's (if it's not too personal a question) how did it happen?

[Wendal]

Hi Gill.So sorry to hear of your various challenges and how difficult you are finding it trying to manage your situation.
It sounds like you had necrotising pancreatitis where basically the pancreas attacks itself and destroys its own cells.
So presume your diabetes developed after your intensive care episode and if so how long afterwards.
Take care

 

[Wendal]

Just following up on the earlier posts re classification of Type 3c.
Rather than my “ simplistic” highlighting of insulin deficiency and resistance based on others input I want to fully endorse others views of the need to treat 3c differently.
Found this in one paper which sums up situation.
“The right classification of DM is important, as type 3c DM has a unique pattern of hormonal and metabolic characteristics, distinct from type 1 and type 2 DM. The predominant mechanism is insulin deficiency, but hyperglycemia is also a result of persistent hepatic glucose production. Hypoglycemia can be particularly problematic, due to enhanced peripheral insulin sensitivity and deficiency of pancreatic glucagon secretion”
Apologies for any confusion.

 

[samara69]

Thanks for that..we can all learn from each other God Bless x

 

[samara69]

Hi you would have thought that diabetes would have developed after my stay at hospital,but strangely it did not until 25 years later it really amazes me .I had flare ups of pancreatitis where I had to learn the best way of living with it as it was complete bed rest no solids only sips of water.it took a few years of how many creons I needed with food so I could digest food.made a.lot of mistakes that is what life's all about..God blessx

 

[Wendal]

Hi you would have thought that diabetes would have developed after my stay at hospital,but strangely it did not until 25 years later it really amazes me .I had flare ups of pancreatitis where I had to learn the best way of living with it as it was complete bed rest no solids only sips of water.it took a few years of how many creons I needed with food so I could digest food.made a.lot of mistakes that is what life's all about..God blessx

Morning one of my really sad moments in hospital was seeing a man in his early 20s with alcohol related liver damage.
He was very sanguine about his situation and I really felt for him given he was at the very start of his life and left a more powerful memory than seeing other sad story’s on the ward.
The two outstanding memories I have were the fantastic staff despite being very under resourced ( must admit especially on the wards as like many the wait for the ambulance and time in A &E was traumatic).

Plus the camaraderie of other patients who generally were very supportive of each other and empathetic for their each others situation.

One of issues is the development of diabetes can take a very long time after the initial pancreatic damage ( mine was 18 months but I was in my 60s so was lucky enough to enjoy pretty much good health until then).

Even now I try and live the best life I can and generally am pretty content and try and look forward rather than backwards.

As was said earlier the mental health side of any condition is often understated in terms of its impact and again am very lucky in that I have always had a very supportive family and in not suffering from anxiety/ depression etc.

I do feel it is incumbent on all of others to try and understand others perspective and better respond to their specific circumstances rather than try and overlay our own individual experiences which yes may be relevant but also may be just that very individual.

 

[Jinty2001]

I'd never heard of type 3c before I had it, I'm just curious how other people became type 3c? Is it always pancreatitis?
For me it was a combination of self-induced vomiting (5-7 times a day) and alcohol (6 bottles of wine a day). I had severe abdominal pain and vomiting coffee-grounds blood. Was eventually hospitalized when my mum called an ambulance as I had a seizure and was diagnosed with/treated for "severe alcohol withdrawal complicated by acute pancreatitis"* I hate that I did this to myself. I had never heard of pancreatitis, either, until I had it.

*Alcohol withdrawal is more life-threatening than acute pancreatitis is why it was prioritized.

Austin , I congratulate you on stopping alcohol and it’s never too late to live a full life being a recovering alcoholic. It’s not your fault as alcohol is an illness in itself. I do hope you can find some peace and enjoy a long and happy sober life style! Best wishes

 

[Austin_98]

I had a very bad flare up last week and eventually went to A&E they tested my liver and pancreas and it was fine. Thank God TBH I’ve had liver failure twice due to medication and recovered but they said my liver has knocked hell out of my digestive system. I was relieved for them to say it was a flare up of my ulcer and a very bad one it was. My first bout of liver failure was when I was 21 and a young wife and it was due to contraceptive pill. It’s left me with not a lot of energy and flare ups of very bad pain then I was 40 ish and caught a virus at university as a mature student. I’ve never been well since then. I am amazed that my liver still functions after all it’s been through. I’ve not had alcohol for 40 years next November. I am 74 now. Who would believe I am still here ? Lol I stopped drinking the day I left my ex husband and made my own way in life! It’s not been easy at times but it’s worth it to give some peace and comfort in my life. I wish everyone well. I know youngsters with Korsakoff’s psychosis at age 20 through alcohol and it’s heartbreaking for families! In common terms a wet brain. Alcohol does so much damage to people and it’s often too late for some. Keep well and keep living well x

40 years is an INCREDIBLE achievement! So so so impressive. And you're definitely an inspiration to people like me!

Sorry about your recent scare! Glad to hear all way okay, though 🙂

I worry about my liver, too. Obviously from the alcohol in part. In part because I had Hepatitis C (100% cured now for years) for 18 months which must have done some damage. I'm on a LOT of medication, too (or was it a specific med that caused yours? Like the birth control?) like I sometimes take over 80 pills a day.

 

[Jinty2001]

Hi Gill.So sorry to hear of your various challenges and how difficult you are finding it trying to manage your situation.
It sounds like you had necrotising pancreatitis where basically the pancreas attacks itself and destroys its own cells.
So presume your diabetes developed after your intensive care episode and if so how long afterwards.
Take care

I’m learning a much from this forum Wendell

 

[Hepato-pancreato]

I'd never heard of type 3c before I had it, I'm just curious how other people became type 3c? Is it always pancreatitis?
For me it was a combination of self-induced vomiting (5-7 times a day) and alcohol (6 bottles of wine a day). I had severe abdominal pain and vomiting coffee-grounds blood. Was eventually hospitalized when my mum called an ambulance as I had a seizure and was diagnosed with/treated for "severe alcohol withdrawal complicated by acute pancreatitis"* I hate that I did this to myself. I had never heard of pancreatitis, either, until I had it.

*Alcohol withdrawal is more life-threatening than acute pancreatitis is why it was

23 years ago it started for me. Ethanol is how professor john Neoptolemos from liverpool royal is how i was i dentified as in hospital. Month in hospital deep frey procedure performed. Told i had 15-20% of pancreas left. Type3c diabetic. Was already on creon. Upped my dose of creon. On zomorph, oromorph, pregablin for pain relief. I have other co-morbiditites, just passed my 5 year survival for oral cancer and liver cancer. Nhs was brilliant to me. Saved my life. 23 years ago stopped class A drug ( alcohol). Oh survived 30 years of hepC. 7 years clear. In my generation you worked hard and played hard.The play hard bit caused me alcohol probems. Yes do blame my self inflicted self. All legally bought alcohol 100% caused it.

 

[Austin_98]

23 years ago it started for me. Ethanol is how professor john Neoptolemos from liverpool royal is how i was i dentified as in hospital. Month in hospital deep frey procedure performed. Told i had 15-20% of pancreas left. Type3c diabetic. Was already on creon. Upped my dose of creon. On zomorph, oromorph, pregablin for pain relief. I have other co-morbiditites, just passed my 5 year survival for oral cancer and liver cancer. Nhs was brilliant to me. Saved my life. 23 years ago stopped class A drug ( alcohol). Oh survived 30 years of hepC. 7 years clear. In my generation you worked hard and played hard.The play hard bit caused me alcohol probems. Yes do blame my self inflicted self. All legally bought alcohol 100% caused it.

Sorry to hear you had to go through all of that! My pancreatitis story was similar, only 15% of pancreas left and I was in hospital for a long time (about 11 weeks). NHS definitely saved my life, too. At one point I overheard a doctor say something (I don't remember what, I spent a lot of that time either delirious from illness or spaced out on morphine) that suggested I might not definitely survive. I asked him and he was reluctant to say until I was like "No, I really would rather know, please just be blunt with me". I was kinda shocked when he said 20% like "I have a 20% change of dying??!" he he said "No, you have a 20% chance of surviving". Luckily, I was on too much medicine to really be worried.
Mine was complicated by severe alcohol withdrawal, too. They had me on 50mg Chlordiazepoxide (Librium) every couple hours, but I still went into status epilepticus followed by a TIA on the third day so they had to initially put me into a Phenobarbital coma and then added Lorazepam and Haloperidol to my meds.
I still think it's messed up that alcohol (which you're 100% correct, would be a Class A if it wasn't legal) is the only drug where death from withdrawal is fairly common yet it's the only hard drug that's legal.

Is the cure for Hep C fairly recent then? I got diagnosed with it when I was in my late teens [which led to a really awkward conversation with my parents where the doctor explained it's caused by either unprotected sex or sharing needles, and then I had to admit it could be either]. Based on the amount of (IDK what it is, but I had 1.5 million) they thought I'd had it for about 18 months. I just had to take a pill a day for 3 months to cure it, though.

I have a slew of pain meds, too: Sevrodol (basically oramorph but in tablet form), Codeine, MSContin, Gabapentin, Naproxen.

Physically, I have other co-morbidities, too, namely two herniated disks, opioid dependency, anorexia, non-epileptiform seizure disorder.

Sounds like you've been through a lot! Glad to hear things seem to be going much better for you now.

 

[Austin_98]

Thank you Austin. It’s not so incredible when you’ve been told never to drink alcohol, my ex wanted a drinking partner and it Was Not me as I couldn’t cope. I had no confidence I was not the person I am today. I could hardly speak for nerves. My son’s doctor called me the woman who turned her life around. Yes it was the pill in the early days. It was not so sophisticated as it is today. I have recovered from my pain last week and I had tried naproxene again as it’s a lifeline for my pain along with morphine patches. Unfortunately it causes stomach ulcers. I have followed you and I noted you are only 25. You have your whole life in front of you and you can achieve peace and hopefully able to come off some of your meds in the future. I was misdiagnosed with HepC . I was doing a degree, which I have I graduated at age 45 and had gone on to post grad when I was diagnosed. It’s a very frightening diagnosis. It turned out to not be the case. I had joined the British Liver Association, I don’t know if you’re a member , and I started the fist HepC support group in Scotland. After the realisation that I didn’t have it I handed the group over to other members. The groups have now been professionalised and an enthusiastic layperson isn’t good enough. Haha I am so happy they have found a cure for it. Some have HepC through blood transfusion and the British BT system never recognised HepC transmission through blood transfusion for a window of about 2 years after other countries. To my knowledge the government have not paid out compensation to date. You have been through such a lot for your young years, like myself, but you can do this Austen. When I read the T3 diagnoses and the pancreatic problems on this forum my heart went out to you all for your suffering! I was shocked that it’s destroyed people’s health so badly and I never even realised the seriousness of diabetes. I have only been diagnosed a few years T2 and I am in remission. I play the game on this where we put our readings in every day 7 day waking average the forum is called and there’s a lot of kind people. You might like to go into that forum for support? I am 6.5 today. It’s a bit borderline , I can’t resist oranges and tangerines lol Keep chipping at your sobriety as it’s foremost in your recovery. One Day At A Time Austen! ODAAT learn to love your liver and stop knocking it about.

Sorry, I thought I'd already replied to this the night you posted it (don't take your sleeping meds and then decide not to sleep is the lesson lol).
I still think it's incredible, regardless of what doctors told you. I was told after the initial acute attack that any more alcohol could kill me, but it was about 4 more years before I actually stopped drinking. I WAS sober for 18 months after the pancreatitis, but not really because I basically just replaced alcohol with the morphine and lorazepam I'd been prescribed.

Are you prescribed a proton-pump inhibitor like Omeprazole or Lansoprazole? My GP prescribed me Omeprazole 20mg as a "stomach protectant" when he prescribed the Naproxen and told me to always take it on the days I took Naproxen (for the reason you stated, to help prevent it causing a GI bleed or a peptic ulcer).

The forum sounds interesting! Do you have a link?

 

[Jinty2001]

Sorry, I thought I'd already replied to this the night you posted it (don't take your sleeping meds and then decide not to sleep is the lesson lol).
I still think it's incredible, regardless of what doctors told you. I was told after the initial acute attack that any more alcohol could kill me, but it was about 4 more years before I actually stopped drinking. I WAS sober for 18 months after the pancreatitis, but not really because I basically just replaced alcohol with the morphine and lorazepam I'd been prescribed.

Are you prescribed a proton-pump inhibitor like Omeprazole or Lansoprazole? My GP prescribed me Omeprazole 20mg as a "stomach protectant" when he prescribed the Naproxen and told me to always take it on the days I took Naproxen (for the reason you stated, to help prevent it causing a GI bleed or a peptic ulcer).

The forum sounds interesting! Do you have a link?

Yes no more naproxene doc forbid me to take anymore they’ve gone to chemist for disposal he said it’s in the bloodstream even if they were coated and attacks the stomach by ulcerating it 60 mg / day

 

[Jinty2001]

Yes no more naproxene doc forbid me to take anymore they’ve gone to chemist for disposal he said it’s in the bloodstream even if they were coated and attacks the stomach by ulcerating it 60 mg / day

I never posted don’t take your sleeping meds I don’t know anything about sleeping meds . I can’t tell anyone what to take and not take oh you mean you took them and never slept sorry

 

[Austin_98]

I never posted don’t take your sleeping meds I don’t know anything about sleeping meds . I can’t tell anyone what to take and not take oh you mean you took them and never slept sorry

Yes, I meant I took my Zopiclone but them my friend invited me over to watch a movie so I ended up not going to bed. I meant that the lesson I learned from that was not to do that in future lol.

 

[Docb]

@Austin_98 - I looked up zopiclone on the NHS web site and it says that it is not recommended for anybody with a history of alcohol abuse. Was the person who prescribed it and the pharmacy who dispensed it aware of your medical history?

 

[Austin_98]

@Austin_98 - I looked up zopiclone on the NHS web site and it says that it is not recommended for anybody with a history of alcohol abuse. Was the person who prescribed it and the pharmacy who dispensed it aware of your medical history?

Yeah, my GP is pretty understanding. I think because I've used many drugs other than alcohol in the past but never had any sort of addiction/dependency with them, so he knows the addiction risk for meds is just as low for me as anyone else. It's only ever alcohol where I had no control.
I'm also on a barbiturate, a benzodiazepine and two opioids, all of which aren't supposed to be prescribed to anyone with a history of addiction.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Is there any reason why Zopiclone was suggested Austin? I’m not sure from the NHS page whether the contraindication for drug/alcohol misuse is an addiction thing, or whether it’s connected to either liver/kidney concerns, or potential implications for mental health?

Just wondering if there might be an alternative that would suit you better?

 

[Austin_98]

Is there any reason why Zopiclone was suggested Austin? I’m not sure from the NHS page whether the contraindication for drug/alcohol misuse is an addiction thing, or whether it’s connected to either liver/kidney concerns, or potential implications for mental health?

Just wondering if there might be an alternative that would suit you better?

Oh, no, it's definitely an addiction thing. Zopiclone is extremely similar to benzo's which are very addictive and act on the same neurotransmitter in the brain as alcohol so the sedation is very similar.

 

[Docb]

Yeah, my GP is pretty understanding. I think because I've used many drugs other than alcohol in the past but never had any sort of addiction/dependency with them, so he knows the addiction risk for meds is just as low for me as anyone else. It's only ever alcohol where I had no control.
I'm also on a barbiturate, a benzodiazepine and two opioids, all of which aren't supposed to be prescribed to anyone with a history of addiction.

@Austin_98 - That's a fair old cocktail of medications especially when you add in the zopiclone. Do you take them all everyday?

 

[Austin_98]

@Austin_98 - That's a fair old cocktail of medications especially when you add in the zopiclone. Do you take them all everyday?

I do, but I have a loooong list of conditions that I need them for: Borderline Personality Disorder, Severe Major Depressive Disorder, with Psychosis (psychotic depression), Generalized Anxiety Disorder, Agoraphobia, Anorexia (in remission), C-PTSD, Type 3c Diabetes, Non-Epileptiform Seizure Disorder, Pancreatitis, Diabetic Neuropathy, Two Herniated Discs...uhm, there's definitely more, but even I forget some of them lol :/
Obviously I didn't get prescribed everything at the same time, but my full list of meds is pretty crazy for someone in their 20s: Sertraline, Quetiapine, Trazodone, Chlorpromazine, Phenobarbital, Clonazepam, Codeine, Morphine, Gabapentin, Lantus, Novorapid, Gliclazide, Omeprazole, Cyclizine, Naproxen, Sodium Valproate
My GP is great and knows all my diagnoses and meds etc, I'm sure he wouldn't so anything unsafe. And I don't suffer with side-effects much, although I'll admit I'm probably over-sedated sometimes but I get very distressed, panic attacks etc otherwise. I take varying doses of some, like on "good" days I take less of the tranquilizers and on good pain days I take less pain meds.