Type 3C please

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Thanks all
As of this morning he is on insulin 3 jabs (think they are orange colour) during the day and a grey one at night. Spoke to the ward sister this afternoon and she is going to contact the hospital diabetic team and the dietician to come and see him, just hope I can be there as well as he doesn't always take the information in properly
The food in there is disgusting!!!
 
Thanks all
As of this morning he is on insulin 3 jabs (think they are orange colour) during the day and a grey one at night. Spoke to the ward sister this afternoon and she is going to contact the hospital diabetic team and the dietician to come and see him, just hope I can be there as well as he doesn't always take the information in properly
The food in there is disgusting!!!
Well some clarity is emerging for you both.

The different insulins will be a quicker acting (or bolus) insulin which he will use to mitigate against the carbs that he eats - hence typically 3 times a day. In due course he may well take this quicker acting bolus with snacks as well. The night time insulin will be a longer acting insulin, intended to cover his background insulin needs outside of food and is known generically as basal insulin.

The bolus and basal insulins together are often referred to as Multiple Daily Injections (MDI). Use of MDI as a treatment plan is, in my non-medical opinion, a good solution and while it does present you both with a lot to take on board right now it should allow your husband to regain a fairly normal way of life. The actual dose sizes will be cautious and probably on the low side right now, to prevent your hisband from going unnecessarily low (or what is known as hypoglycaemic). Some tweaking of doses should be necessary to refine your husband's MDI.

Hopefully the nurses will explain to him, ideally while you are around, about the importance of having hypo treatments handy at all times. If that is not made clear very soon do ask.

In due course see if you can give us the exact names of the insulins; including any letters or numbers if such exist. There are many different types of insulin; my guess would be the orange one is NovoRapid- but that's just my guess.
 
Thanks all
As of this morning he is on insulin 3 jabs (think they are orange colour) during the day and a grey one at night. Spoke to the ward sister this afternoon and she is going to contact the hospital diabetic team and the dietician to come and see him, just hope I can be there as well as he doesn't always take the information in properly
The food in there is disgusting!!!
I hope you get something useful from the dietician.
If you can find out what the specific insulins are as there are many different ones which behave slightly differently and people will be able to advise better if they know what they are.
The 'grey' one is likely to be what is called a basal insulin taken once or twice a day depending on the specific one and the 'orange' one will be what is called a bolus insulin taken for food. That is the one you are going to need more advice about and how much he will need to take will depend on what food as in carbohydrates he eats.
I think you should ask to be there when he sees the dietician or suggest he writes things down as it is easy to forget when in stressful situations.
 
Thanks all
As of this morning he is on insulin 3 jabs (think they are orange colour) during the day and a grey one at night. Spoke to the ward sister this afternoon and she is going to contact the hospital diabetic team and the dietician to come and see him, just hope I can be there as well as he doesn't always take the information in properly
The food in there is disgusting!!!
Is the grey one Lantus? And the orange one novorapid or something else?
 
Hi Wendal
Sorry if this is off topic. I have recently come out of an 8 week stay in hospital due to necrotising pancreatitis with pseudo cyst and fluid on my left. I am now diabetic (on Lantus) - discharge papers said now T2? - querying this at follow up. Also on enzymes for digestion.
My main question is how did you cope with the pseudo cyst? Did it go on its own? My pseudo cyst is communicating with the fluid on my left and I have a drain in situ which I have to empty everyday. Currently waiting for follow up - going to ask when my gall bladder is going to be removed and how long the drain is to stay in.
Cosmic - my sugars were well into the 20’s whilst I was in hospital (I was also on enteral feeds at the time), they soon settled. If you are unsure of anything, ask to see your diabetes team, write down questions as you think of them. I wish I would have had family there in the early days as I was out with the fairies on morphine and hadn’t got a clue what they were trying to tell me!
Many thanks
Doris1971
 
Help please So yesterday hubby was told pancreas tail infection under control and would be allowed home, know its bank holiday but this morning 2 drs came round who he had not seen before said his diabetes was probable due to junk food he ate (we very seldom eat 'junk' food) and his pancreas due to alcohol (he hasn't had a drink since July 2021) to say he nearly got out of bed and hit them!!!!
He said NO to both gallstone and Type 3C so they shuffled through his notes and said they needed another blood test now over 12 hrs later no sign of blood result and his BG has gone up to 20.4 even after 3 injections of insulin all he has eaten today is 2 revolting hospital sandwiches what is going on?
 
Hi Wendal
Sorry if this is off topic. I have recently come out of an 8 week stay in hospital due to necrotising pancreatitis with pseudo cyst and fluid on my left. I am now diabetic (on Lantus) - discharge papers said now T2? - querying this at follow up. Also on enzymes for digestion.
My main question is how did you cope with the pseudo cyst? Did it go on its own? My pseudo cyst is communicating with the fluid on my left and I have a drain in situ which I have to empty everyday. Currently waiting for follow up - going to ask when my gall bladder is going to be removed and how long the drain is to stay in.
Cosmic - my sugars were well into the 20’s whilst I was in hospital (I was also on enteral feeds at the time), they soon settled. If you are unsure of anything, ask to see your diabetes team, write down questions as you think of them. I wish I would have had family there in the early days as I was out with the fairies on morphine and hadn’t got a clue what they were trying to tell me!
Many thanks
Doris1971
Hi Doris,
Apologies for delay in responding but I just noticed your response.
At first I wanted to know what my Consultant was going to do about my pseudocyst as I was concerned about having it and whether it would burst.
He told me it was a 50/50 decision as it was a large one it was unlikely to dissipate quickly and he did think there was a high risk of it getting infected during any operation to drain it which I thought was unusual.
So he preferred to wait and I was not entirely happy but it was not bothering me just the odd back twinge but once he told me could still take my gallbladder out with it I was happier as I thought they would not operate with it there so I thought it was delaying my gall bladder op.
The first CT scan about 6 months later showed a slight reduction and then the one after that showed a complete dissolving so 15 months later.So I never had a drain of any kind.
Once I had my gall bladder out in July 22 I was quite happy living with the pseudocyst as the risk of getting infected/ bursting was very low and as I was following a very low fat diet and losing weight I was more concerned about my lack of energy.
Seeing a dietician who told me to eat normally and put me on Creon transformed how I felt and got back to normal/ back to work etc within a few weeks.
Cosmic will reply to your latest post tomorrow
 
Help please So yesterday hubby was told pancreas tail infection under control and would be allowed home, know its bank holiday but this morning 2 drs came round who he had not seen before said his diabetes was probable due to junk food he ate (we very seldom eat 'junk' food) and his pancreas due to alcohol (he hasn't had a drink since July 2021) to say he nearly got out of bed and hit them!!!!
He said NO to both gallstone and Type 3C so they shuffled through his notes and said they needed another blood test now over 12 hrs later no sign of blood result and his BG has gone up to 20.4 even after 3 injections of insulin all he has eaten today is 2 revolting hospital sandwiches what is going on?
Morning Cosmic these are purely my thoughts putting myself in your husbands position.
The Drs process is a diagnostic one so they rule out possibilities and narrow it down by symptoms,tests and what does or does not work.
So if the infection has cleared up with the antibiotics then that will be removed from the equation.
If you do not eat junk food or if he has not consumed any alcohol like myself for 2 years then it is unlikely to be a type 2 so I would still push for Type 3c diagnosis.
What is surprising is that his BG is still very high despite the insulin unless the sandwiches were extremely high carb and the insulin timing/ level was poor or something else is going on.
I presume he is not active which will not help with insulin sensitivity but the insulin should bring the BG down whether Type 1 or 2.
The first blood test would have highlighted any other damage such as kidney or liver so another blood test will not likely raise anything new in those respects.
Am afraid can’t suggest anything except to wait to see what the medical professionals say and appreciate as a B/ H nothing happens quick and the consultants often not around.
Please keep us informed and the more details the better.I am sure they will get to bottom of it but appreciate it is a worrying time and you want the diagnosis so you can deal with it.
BW
 
The other point Cosmic is your husband will likely be under the care of the Upper GI team so a gastroenterologist rather than the diabetes Team so that can complicate the diagnostic process.
 
Morning Cosmic these are purely my thoughts putting myself in your husbands position.
The Drs process is a diagnostic one so they rule out possibilities and narrow it down by symptoms,tests and what does or does not work.
So if the infection has cleared up with the antibiotics then that will be removed from the equation.
If you do not eat junk food or if he has not consumed any alcohol like myself for 2 years then it is unlikely to be a type 2 so I would still push for Type 3c diagnosis.
What is surprising is that his BG is still very high despite the insulin unless the sandwiches were extremely high carb and the insulin timing/ level was poor or something else is going on.
I presume he is not active which will not help with insulin sensitivity but the insulin should bring the BG down whether Type 1 or 2.
The first blood test would have highlighted any other damage such as kidney or liver so another blood test will not likely raise anything new in those respects.
Am afraid can’t suggest anything except to wait to see what the medical professionals say and appreciate as a B/ H nothing happens quick and the consultants often not around.
Please keep us informed and the more details the better.I am sure they will get to bottom of it but appreciate it is a worrying time and you want the diagnosis so you can deal with it.
BW
Thank you Wendal
He has been diagnosed as Type 3C by his own Consultant, who we know quite well unfortunately from the initial pancreatitis, He actually went to see hubby Thursday evening sitting on his bed and chatting saying he wasn't surprised re the diabetes It was the 'Saturday' drs who said about the junk food, not sure about the timing of the insulin and food as the nurses just bring the insulin. Better test this morning as BG was 8 it's the massive swinging he can't understand. He does go for walks around the hospital but is becoming weaker as not eating much
Thanks everso much for being there
 
Thank you Wendal
He has been diagnosed as Type 3C by his own Consultant, who we know quite well unfortunately from the initial pancreatitis, He actually went to see hubby Thursday evening sitting on his bed and chatting saying he wasn't surprised re the diabetes It was the 'Saturday' drs who said about the junk food, not sure about the timing of the insulin and food as the nurses just bring the insulin. Better test this morning as BG was 8 it's the massive swinging he can't understand. He does go for walks around the hospital but is becoming weaker as not eating much
Thanks everso much for being there
Hi Cosmic,Well if his own Consultant is saying Type 3c then that makes sense and again him not being surprised by the diabetes diagnosis fits the pattern so bit of consistency.
I know it is swinging but the important bit is it can be low so 8 is fine and well within range and it will get stable but just takes time.
Mine took about 6 weeks and I had to miss a work trip to Seville but more important to get it under control.
Can’t stress enough how important not eating much can effect everything else as you have no energy and generally feel yuk and sone times you can lay blame on other things.
As I said once I sorted my diet out after my pancreatitis attack everything got back to normsl
 
Are you able to take in some foods that he fancies and would be able to eat.
When my OH was in hospital with a Crohn's flare up, I took in soups in a thermos and yoghurts.
 
Well all change, DN went to see him yesterday and when I went to visit he was in the discharge lounge, so after getting meds took him home, managed to do a test and an injection before having some home made lentil soup, then he went to bed. Woke him up at 10.00 for antibiotic (he is on a 7 day course of CO-AMOXICLAV 625g) and the night time injection. Still asleep at moment.
Have to see GP on Tuesday when they open, will probably see the pharmacist as in the sticks so have pharmacy attached to surgery, thankfully they are very good at our surgery (they sometimes understand more than the Drs!) as only got 2 pens
Novorapid 100units/ml 3 units 3 times a day
ABASAGLAR 100units/ml 6 units as 22.00hrs
Hope that makes sense
His discharge letter says Type3C
Thanks all
 
Hello again @Cosmic,
So pleased to read this latest update. I'm sure your husband will not be worse off than he was from his Hospital treatment, ALAS.

The essential thing right now, in my non-medical opinion, will be rest and decent meals. Initially I suggest you be very aware that the principle of his insulins are to allow him to get back to a fairly normal lifestyle. Do NOT follow the T2 process of reducing his meals, particularly not his carb intake, unless from "trial and learning" you find specific items which he can't tolerate. The NovoRapid is the (relatively) short acting insulin, often referred to as bolus, intended to allow your husband to eat whatever he wants and needs and move the energy providing glucose out of his blood stream and into the body's cells, muscles and organs. The Abasaglar is a background longer acting insulin, often referred to as a basal insulin, intended to deal with glucose that naturally comes from within his body and which, if not managed will steadily bring about elevated blood glucose if not treated.

The doses he has been given may well prove to be modest, I would expect small deliberately to keep him safe and away from going too low and into hypo. At this moment better to be a bit high than hypo. 4.0 mmol/L is considered the hypo threshold (actually a bit lower, but this provides a tiny safety margin) and he should from now on always have hypo treatments with him at all times. Did the Hospital explain this before discharge? If not please say and we can explain more fully. I strongly suggest set he sets his CGM alarm at 5.6 which makes is an alert rather than an alarm (and alarms are invariably too late - particularly for T3c) . With an alert at 5.6 he can eat a simple biscuit at 6 gms CHO or a cookie at c. 12 gms CHO (or any equivalent snack of choice) and intercept the fall in BG well before that fall becomes a hypo. Even a large milky coffee can be sufficient; but the fat in milk can slow down the body's response.

Your husband will start to see his body's response to foods from his CGM. I found in my early days I could almost eat to the displays on my meter - but that was unnecessarily obsessive!

I'm not at all sure why the Hospital ate telling you to see your GP on Tuesday. As a T3c your husband should be coming directly under a Hospital's Specialist Diabetes Team and with due respect to any GP neither the GP nor a Surgery Nurse is likely to have the necessary expertise in insulin taking or pancreatitis "oddities" to be the right people. When I was discharged from Hospital I had a 4 page Discharge letter that spelt out the Guidance, including insulin doses and hypo responses. But your husband will need the GP to prescribe the follow on medications of insulin, Creon and perhaps Omneprazole (for help with managing acids in his stomach). The GP's authorisation for prescribing these meds comes from the discharge letter which will have been sent electronically to the Surgery.

There is still a lot for you both to take on board. Try not to let it all panic you; there are plenty of people on this forum who have experienced this massive change and disruption and who will share their experiences with you. Good luck.
 
I'm not at all sure why the Hospital ate telling you to see your GP on Tuesday.
I’d assume it’s to get all the meds on repeat prescription and dispensed, since they only have one of each pen?
 
Hi thanks for all that very helpful, yes the GP just to get everything prescribed and to pick up a sharps box, I will speak to the pharmacy at the surgery as they have been very helpful in past re Creon shortages, he is being referred to the Diabetic Unit at the hospital for follow up, a month ago he had an MOT with GP and got a call from a DN there to say he was T2 as his BG was 10 and to cut out all bread, potatoes etc etc. We tried to ask if it could it be T3C and she didn't even seem to know what we were talking about, so won't be talking to her again, Education needed!
The DISN nurse did go through things with us but too much info all at once, I have got some jelly beans for him and think she said she would ask for Dextrose to be prescribed, we got loads of leaflets to read, the DN is going to ring him next week to check how we are getting on.
Have been told to keep as normal a diet as possible with a few tweaks. The most difficult for him at moment is swapping sugar for sweetener in tea & coffee.
 
I’d assume it’s to get all the meds on repeat prescription and dispensed, since they only have one of each pen?
Hi Cosmic,So pleased you have more clarity and proudtobeerratic has detailed a lot of points.
I re emphasise the need to eat well and the fact the initial 3 units of Novorapid is a starting point( I started of on 2u 3x a day and 2u of basal) so once they are happy with his level of control/ management they will keep on reviewing/ adjusting over a number of weeks.
It will take as long as it takes to stabilise but expect 5-6 weeks as a minimum and important that the overall adjustment is carefully “ controlled” to prevent retinal damage.
I think from an earlier post that you said your GPs were good so being referred to your GPs from the Hospital is no worry for me and as Lucy said it will be easier to manage some of your meds but they will also refer you to a Community/ Hospital managed service so they can provide specialist advice/ and additional support such as CGMs etc.
That is what happened to me but as I was managing my diabetes fairly well my local community team discharged me back under the care of my GP which I am very happy with and they do the regular neuropathy and blood tests etc.
 
Thanks just a quick question, I have just been shopping and getting confused as to the sugar content of some foods (not processed ones) we never have had much fast food as I have always tried to cook from fresh but is dried fruit such as sultanas apricots etc OK as it says natural sugars
Also were told to look for the traffic lights on packaging but if it just says how many grams what do I need to look for, sorry as we both in our 70's, but not old!, find these numbers a bit confusing
 
Thanks just a quick question, I have just been shopping and getting confused as to the sugar content of some foods (not processed ones) we never have had much fast food as I have always tried to cook from fresh but is dried fruit such as sultanas apricots etc OK as it says natural sugars
Also were told to look for the traffic lights on packaging but if it just says how many grams what do I need to look for, sorry as we both in our 70's, but not old!, find these numbers a bit confusing
The number you want to be looking at is the carbohydrate content, just looking at the sugar even if natural sugars will give a misleading view. It is all carbohydrates which convert to glucose but those with a higher 'as sugar' will be metabolised more quickly.
The traffic light system is as much use as a chocolate teapot for people who are diabetic.
 
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