Type 2 and insulin resistance - what I don't understand is...

[42istheanswer]

I found the type of carb made the main difference to me.
I long, slowly digested carb had minimal impact on my BG, so quantity was mostly irrelevant.
A rapid hit like sugar gave me a spike.
I soon learnt the difference in "good" carbs and "bad" carbs,

Pure sugar, yes that would give a spike. Even to someone who isn't diabetic. That's the whole point behind the OGTT - does the spike come down "quickly enough". But I have found that how high spikes get to is are about the meal as a whole because fat slows down how fast carbohydrate is absorbed - so chocolate would give me a later and lower spike than the equivalent amount of starch without the fat. Your body starts to break down starch in the mouth - amylase is produced as part of saliva, it isn't just about whether sugar is absorbed there.

If someone is trying to manage type 2 by reducing carbohydrates, which is what I thought we were discussing, then the amount of total carbohydrates is more important in the long run than the proportion of them which are sugar.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Pure sugar, yes that would give a spike. Even to someone who isn't diabetic. That's the whole point behind the OGTT - does the spike come down "quickly enough". But I have found that how high spikes get to is are about the meal as a whole because fat slows down how fast carbohydrate is absorbed - so chocolate would give me a later and lower spike than the equivalent amount of starch without the fat. Your body starts to break down starch in the mouth - amylase is produced as part of saliva, it isn't just about whether sugar is absorbed there.

If someone is trying to manage type 2 by reducing carbohydrates, which is what I thought we were discussing, then the amount of total carbohydrates is more important in the long run than the proportion of them which are sugar.

We're talking diabetes.
If we can manage it by going low GI, no point in going full on low carb for me.
That was the way I did it, and my meter agreed it worked.

 

[Dragonheart]

We're talking diabetes.
If we can manage it by going low GI, no point in going full on low carb for me.
That was the way I did it, and my meter agreed it worked.

Whilst low GI is enough for some like you, it doesn’t do the job alone for others, me for example. Assuming one level or type of carb works for all is misleading. And some sneaky high spikes can be had with some low GI foods if checked with a meter. GL seems more reliable in my experience as per Dr Unwins infographics

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Whilst low GI is enough for some like you, it doesn’t do the job alone for others, me for example. Assuming one level or type of carb works for all is misleading. And some sneaky high spikes can be had with some low GI foods if checked with a meter. GL seems more reliable in my experience as per Dr Unwins infographics

Unwin stared his diet as low carb and low fat.
That's low calorie to me

 

[bulkbiker]

Unwin stared his diet as low carb and lov fat.
That's low calorie to me

No he didn't.

He started because one of his patients told him about the "red" forum and the huge success she'd had with low carb.
I have heard him speak on the subject at least 3 times in person.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...-diet-as-cure-for-obesity-and-type-2-diabetes

 

[Deleted member 21371]

"type 2 diabetes who were overweight could choose a low-carb diet as a short-term option (for up to six months) but should limit intakes of saturated fats"
Can't aren't argue on that, it's your link, as you say, he's the guru.
Low fat wins.
And definitely low saturated fats as you say.
And low carb is very short time limited to fix Diabetes
For me anyway.
You may have a longer term solution.

Good link.

 

[bulkbiker]

"type 2 diabetes who were overweight could choose a low-carb diet as a short-term option (for up to six months) but should limit intakes of saturated fats"
Can't aren't argue on that, it's your link, as you say, he's the guru.
Low fat wins.
And definitely low saturated fats as you say.
And low carb is very short time limited to fix Diabetes
For me anyway.
You may have a longer term solution.

Good link.

" A report in May 2021 by the government’s Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition recommended adults with type 2 diabetes who were overweight could choose a low-carb diet as a short-term option (for up to six months) but should limit intakes of saturated fats"

As usual a very selective quote from you... Dr Unwin has nothing to do with SACN.

Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition (SACN)

SACN provides independent advice on nutrition and related health matters to the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities and other UK government organisations.

www.gov.uk

 

[Deleted member 21371]

" A report in May 2021 by the government’s Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition recommended adults with type 2 diabetes who were overweight could choose a low-carb diet as a short-term option (for up to six months) but should limit intakes of saturated fats"

As usual a very selective quote from you... Dr Unwin has nothing to do with SACN.

Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition (SACN)

SACN provides independent advice on nutrition and related health matters to the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities and other UK government organisations.

www.gov.uk

It's your link, don't drag me into it if you don't like what it says, complain to the Guardian.
It's not my fight.
All I said was you chose a longer term solution that works for you.

 

[bulkbiker]

It's your link, don't drag me into it if you don't like what it says, complain to the Guardian.
It's not my fight.
All I said was you chose a longer term solution that works for you.

You said

" Unwin stared his diet as low carb and low fat."

This is untrue.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

You said

" Unwin stared his diet as low carb and low fat."

This is untrue.

Keep me out of it.

 

[Dragonheart]

It's your link, don't drag me into it if you don't like what it says, complain to the Guardian.
It's not my fight.
All I said was you chose a longer term solution that works for you.

Err I think you’re the one misrepresenting whats in the link and who said what. A poor option to try and detract from the true message it contains.

Dr Unwin does not advocate low fat and this article does not claim he does. He does not time limit low carb either. The article describes a study published that lasted 33 months and other drs talk about patients followed for up to a decade of low carbing.

My mention of him was in relation to the greater accuracy of GL rather than GI in predicting blood glucose responses in me (and plenty of others) and nothing whatsoever to do with low fat or low calorie.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Err I think you’re the one misrepresenting whats in the link and who said what. A poor option to try and detract from the true message it contains.

Dr Unwin does not advocate low fat and this article does not claim he does. He does not time limit low carb either. The article describes a study published that lasted 33 months and other drs talk about patients followed for up to a decade of low carbing.

My mention of him was in relation to the greater accuracy of GL rather than GI in predicting blood glucose responses in me (and plenty of others) and nothing whatsoever to do with low fat or low calorie.

I entirely agree.
I went for low GI, and low GL.
A slow release carb, and a low load is absolutely fine.
"Long and slow" certainly worked very well before I reversed my type 2.
I kept my numbers very low that way.

 

[Dragonheart]

I entirely agree.
I went for low GI, and low GL.
A slow release carb, and a low load is absolutely fine.
"Long and slow" certainly worked very well before I reversed my type 2.
I kept my numbers very low that way.

Brilliant it worked for you. Low GI does not work for me. Too many high readings (eg sweet potato, oats) that allegedly don’t/shouldn’t happen on low GI and too long at a raised but not substantial level as it slowly releases is still to much above baseline for me to feel happy with it

By that I mean if you plot the glucose level on a chart a long slow rise gives as a big an area above a healthy baseline as a shorter higher rise does. It’s not just really high numbers that do damage long term but also more prolonged lesser rises

Low GL works better but as that more or less aligns with low carb (in my diet at least) then I just check the carbs

 

[Josh DUK]

I entirely agree.
I went for low GI, and low GL.
A slow release carb, and a low load is absolutely fine.
"Long and slow" certainly worked very well before I reversed my type 2.
I kept my numbers very low that way.

You said

" Unwin stared his diet as low carb and low fat."

This is untrue.

Hello @bulkbiker and @travellor,

Please revisit the private messages I have sent both of you regarding forum etiquette.