• Please Remember: Members are only permitted to share their own experiences. Members are not qualified to give medical advice. Additionally, everyone manages their health differently. Please be respectful of other people's opinions about their own diabetes management.
  • We seem to be having technical difficulties with new user accounts. If you are trying to register please check your Spam or Junk folder for your confirmation email. If you still haven't received a confirmation email, please reach out to our support inbox: support.forum@diabetes.org.uk

Trying to explain my glucose levels (was Diazepam)

Status
This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
Jackfruit fishfingers! Good grief. :D

Postmarks and watermarks are fascinating, I still collect them and stamps, can't resist but my album went west years ago. I don't hunt them out but if they come my way I save them.

I hope you do not get ill.
 
The clinic has already called. Unsurprisingly they are booked up for several months for face-to-face appointments due to the current situation, but they will book me in as early as they can.
 
The clinic has already called. Unsurprisingly they are booked up for several months for face-to-face appointments due to the current situation, but they will book me in as early as they can.
Hope you get seen quicker, at least they have informed you of the situation.
 
Thanks. I obviously knew that appointments would be limited but did not expect to be contacted that quickly. so it was really good to just have the referral confirmed. And the person I spoke to was very friendly and helpful so gave a good impression of the service too.

It seems to have been a good day all round. The temperature has fallen. Yesterday I was unexpectedly able to book a supermarket delivery for today albeit for 11pm, only to be asked at 8pm if they could come early. And most amazingly, the surgery emailed the blood test form to investigate the anaemia from the last results. So no waiting or complaining required!
 
What a frustrating runaround you have been having @Becka

Glad you have at least made some progress with your diabetes diagnosis. Thank goodness you had extra support than just the pharmacist who wouldnt change their mind!
 
My appointment will be in one months time, so as good as can reasonably be expected. I would, perhaps wrongly, not have been surprised by that length of wait in normal times

Sadly it will not be at the centre a two minute walk from home, but the one a few miles away that is also being used as a Covid treatment centre!

But I did say I would rather travel there if it meant an earlier appointment, after it had been explained that the centre has been physically segregated so there is no risk of contact with anyone using that function.
 
Completely off-topic, but I am off to the hospital today for some standard blood monitoring tests. My fourth time out since March, and all of them have been for blood tests.

However these are the same tests as my G.P. ordered locally on their behalf (as they were ordered during shielding and the hospital is in a different trust) when checking my diabetes. And I know the hospital received the results because a doctor called to say so. But they did not include a drug level test (because one was not ordered, and I my prescription had ran out anyway) and one was still needed to be able to issue a prescription.

I went and did that test at the hospital last Friday. Only yesterday for the doctor to call and say they only did the blood level test and not the monitoring ones (because that is all I was told to do, and they had the other results anyway) but they still need the other tests to be done.

To be fair, I have to go hospital anyway to collect the prescription. It will take over a week otherwise for them to post (!) it to my pharmacy and them to order it in. So it is very little extra effort. I might also get the results of the follow-up tests about anaemia today too.

Being healthy must be so boring.
 
What do these healthy people do all day?
 
How much can you get for Gliclazide on the black market?

Meanwhile, you may recall, when I had my C-peptide test it also came back with anaemia. That has been progressing albeit slowly. More blood tests said that it was caused by a vitamin B12 deficiency. Then another blood test confirmed that.

Whilst that is a known risk for vegans, which made me wonder if the lockdown had messed with my diet. Especially being unable to shop for the first month. But the doctor did not think it likely as I have been a vegan for over twenty years with a problem. Plus the body can store up to four years worth of B12, so if it was a dietary change it is more likely to be in 2016 rather than April. Doing further reading myself I did note that it can be caused by long-term Metformin use, but I am not sure how long is long term.

So this morning I had to go to the pharmacy to collect a B12 prescription, from there to the surgery to get a blood test form and book a nurse appointment for injecting the B12, from where I went to the hospital for their blood tests, then straight from there to the local blood test centre for the G.P.'s blood tests to find the cause.

I have no idea why my original rheumatology referral was to a hospital in a different borough, but it is a tad unhelpful at times like this. It is not so much a national health service as a load of local health services who all need their own blood.

It is the fifth time I have been out since shielding ended. The first four occasions having been for one blood test, now that number is growing. Helpfully, though, the nurse appointment is for this afternoon. So I do not have to waste a going anywhere on a day without a blood test in it.

Anyway, I was given two prescriptions at the pharmacy. One of which turned out to be a bag of Gliclazide.

Back in April or May when I first spoke to the practice pharmacist and said Gliclazide was no longer working, he still prescribed more alongside Sitagliptin. Last month the local pharmacy assumed what I wanted (which was their explanation) and dispensed Gliclazide instead of the prescribed Metformin. Now it seems that after the stupid conversation with the practice pharmacist last month, when he insisted not taking Gliclazide was what raised my HbA1c, he prescribed some more.

Combined with what I already had when I stopped taking it, I have so much Gliclazide I think I need to start dealing it one the streets just to not waste it. It is of no use to me, I could overdose on the stuff and the only likely effect would be feeling full. Maybe stand outside Greggs and "psst, if you take this you can eat as many doughnuts as you want."

Unless the G.P. needs to order more tests after the current set, my next scheduled trip outside will be in a fortnight when I get to visit the diabetes clinic. And then straight from there to hospital for blood tests because that seemingly is just how things are now.
 
Maybe stand outside Greggs and "psst, if you take this you can eat as many doughnuts as you want."

:D :D :D
 
Have you ever been on Metformin as that can lead to lack of B12 in some.
 
Everything I read said Metformin was a cause when taken for a long time, but did not specify how long. But that is something to consider if the blood tests come back negative as I do not think it can be directly tested.

Pernicious anemia does seem quite possible. It is an autoimmune condition which usually occurs with others, with type 1 diabetes as a common co-morbidity. Which I assume technically includes LADA as it is not an official category. And I assume is what I have after failing the C-peptide test. But it would be my fourth autoimmune condition.

Although the doctor said to see a nurse to be shown how to inject the B12, the nurse said they need to do it. So that means going out every other day for the next two weeks without blood tests. Which is apparently how people used to live in the pre-Covid times. I cannot imagine how people used to live like that.
 
I still have not been out anywhere without anyone sticking needles in me, if no longer only to take blood. Today was slightly interesting in that the score is now tired. Four times I have been out to have fluid extracted, four times to have fluid injected, and one time for both. Got one more of each scheduled for this week, which includes the final injection. Unless things change, though, I have an extraction scheduled for every fortnight in perpetuity.

Anyway, last week the surgery sent me a message, as it is normal practice, to say they have my blood results but no action was needed. Which I guess rules out the sources of B12 deficiency being tested, so maybe it could be related to Metformin?

I replied to the surgery to query what they mean by no action being required, as that normally means everything is normal. But things were already not normal, so a normal blood test leaves the purpose for it unresolved. Like a double negative is a positive. So surely the cause still needs explaining?

At the very least I would think they will need to schedule further tests to monitor it is resolved, as like most of my conditions, it was only discovered by chance from a routine blood tests. In his case one they were only doing for the hospital because it is in a different borough. Unfortunately I have still yet to have a reply, just when things have been going well with the surgery.

Maybe something to raise at the upcoming diabetic clinic appointment instead. Presumably they would be better placed to say on that possibility anyway.
 
I do not know if I am just underwhelmed, confused, or upset. The diabetes clinic certainly seemed a waste of time, though.

I was asked if I wanted to go back on Gliclazide, after having already explained that I experimented with it and it did not work for me, backed up by a print out of my fasting levels for the year. In the end it was accepted that it does not work, but the fact it was even initially considered pretty much left me feeling a complete lack of confidence.

No mention was made at all of the C-peptide result, other than by me in explaining why I ended up being there. Maybe it was totally irrelevant, but given a couple of opportunities to dismiss my mentioning it was ignored.

The type 2 pathway goes though a second and third intensification to taking three medications. Even though I am prescribed three (Metformin, Sitagliptin, and Gliclazide) and for a while did take all three before deciding it not worth taking something with no effect. But apparently that means I am only taking two drugs, I guess pathways can spiral back on themselves.

The outcome, after the doctor went away to check with a consultant, was to be prescribed an SGLT2 inhibitor and to talk to the dietician. The former was one of my (good) G.P.'s original suggestions before I asked for the C-peptide and antibody tests. And something the G.P. who said my C-peptide level was normal could have prescribed. I was asked if I was happy with the prescription, which I kind-of was not but I am not very good in those situations so all I could say was I can at least try it. Which is true, they are the experts and despite everything I have read and learned I have no real expertise to second guess them.

I never thought to ask why the Gliclazide stopped working, I probably should have, but I doubt I would have got a satisfactory answer.

The talk with the dietician was slightly difficult as I struggled to think of what I normally eat. But the outcome was that things were generally okay, eat more vegetables, make sure I get enough protein, and try to exercise more. I have recently found myself struggling a bit with my memory, not in any serious way, and assumed it was just an early effect of ageing. But it is a symptom of B12 deficiency so more likely to be that. So I am not sure if my difficult remembering what I eat was because of that, or I have discovered that I am not that interested in food any more and my relationship with it is more functional.

I did also ask the doctor if she felt Metformin could have caused the B12 deficiency. I got the impression she was not aware of a connection, but she did not and thought it probably a combination of things. But it is something to consider if things remain a problem in a few months after taking the course of shots. Which makes sense. But the nurse yesterday, after the final shot, said to make a G.P. appointment to see if I need to come back in three months for another.

(My B12 result was 178 out of a range of 187 – 883, which is only a small amount so needs to be confirmed with an M.M.A. test, and on a scale of 0 – 280 I score 2,093 (severe functional deficiency) so I have no idea which results takes precedence in how badly deficient I am as M.M.A. can be elevated without deficiency.)

Although I feel Sitagliptin has caused some weight gain, it being the opposite of the normal reaction and with only three Yellowcard entries I did not feel confident it was worth raising.

The one good thing to come out of it was doing a urine test, as I assume that did not show any ketones as nothing was mentioned. Because near the top of the Dapagliflozin leaflet is a list of symptoms for which you should contact a doctor or hospital straight away, and I have all of them save weight loss. Though admittedly I do not tend to smell my urine to know if that has changed odour. So it is my weight I have been watching as a D.K.A. sign.

Which is something I will have to do more seriously now as that is a rare side effect of SGLT2 inhibitors. Although saying that now, I was not warned about that by the doctor, so I guess is not a risk they are concerned about. I was only warned I will urinate more often at first, even though I practically want to go all the time anyway. Which is to be expected given my levels.

When I woke this morning my level at 7am was 16.5, when the nurse tested me at around 10:30am I was 15.1. That from having only drunk water. So these tablets better be good. They simply stop the transport of glucose to the kidneys, so even work on type 1, so they should definitely work. Although removing glucose from the blood means the pancreas is less stimulated, so produces less insulin, reducing the benefit. Hence the D.K.A. risk. And mine is literally working flat out. At least I thought that was what the C-peptide result showed, now I am not sure about that.

Also had my worst ever blood pressure result, I cannot remember exactly but around 150/100. My home test yesterday was 134/89, which was around the upper end of my usual range. I also brought my home testing results from the summer so the nurse was not worried but the doctor was. So she was keen on Metformin and the dapagliflozin as being good for cardiovascular health too.

So I am just left with confusion over what is happening in my body when I thought I knew. I have no idea what precisely I am feeling, or what I am supposed to feel, other than it was a waste of time and being fed up. But I have something new to try, which might fix everything.
 
I do not know if I am just underwhelmed, confused, or upset. The diabetes clinic certainly seemed a waste of time, though.

I was asked if I wanted to go back on Gliclazide, after having already explained that I experimented with it and it did not work for me, backed up by a print out of my fasting levels for the year. In the end it was accepted that it does not work, but the fact it was even initially considered pretty much left me feeling a complete lack of confidence.

No mention was made at all of the C-peptide result, other than by me in explaining why I ended up being there. Maybe it was totally irrelevant, but given a couple of opportunities to dismiss my mentioning it was ignored.

The type 2 pathway goes though a second and third intensification to taking three medications. Even though I am prescribed three (Metformin, Sitagliptin, and Gliclazide) and for a while did take all three before deciding it not worth taking something with no effect. But apparently that means I am only taking two drugs, I guess pathways can spiral back on themselves.

The outcome, after the doctor went away to check with a consultant, was to be prescribed an SGLT2 inhibitor and to talk to the dietician. The former was one of my (good) G.P.'s original suggestions before I asked for the C-peptide and antibody tests. And something the G.P. who said my C-peptide level was normal could have prescribed. I was asked if I was happy with the prescription, which I kind-of was not but I am not very good in those situations so all I could say was I can at least try it. Which is true, they are the experts and despite everything I have read and learned I have no real expertise to second guess them.

I never thought to ask why the Gliclazide stopped working, I probably should have, but I doubt I would have got a satisfactory answer.

The talk with the dietician was slightly difficult as I struggled to think of what I normally eat. But the outcome was that things were generally okay, eat more vegetables, make sure I get enough protein, and try to exercise more. I have recently found myself struggling a bit with my memory, not in any serious way, and assumed it was just an early effect of ageing. But it is a symptom of B12 deficiency so more likely to be that. So I am not sure if my difficult remembering what I eat was because of that, or I have discovered that I am not that interested in food any more and my relationship with it is more functional.

I did also ask the doctor if she felt Metformin could have caused the B12 deficiency. I got the impression she was not aware of a connection, but she did not and thought it probably a combination of things. But it is something to consider if things remain a problem in a few months after taking the course of shots. Which makes sense. But the nurse yesterday, after the final shot, said to make a G.P. appointment to see if I need to come back in three months for another.

(My B12 result was 178 out of a range of 187 – 883, which is only a small amount so needs to be confirmed with an M.M.A. test, and on a scale of 0 – 280 I score 2,093 (severe functional deficiency) so I have no idea which results takes precedence in how badly deficient I am as M.M.A. can be elevated without deficiency.)

Although I feel Sitagliptin has caused some weight gain, it being the opposite of the normal reaction and with only three Yellowcard entries I did not feel confident it was worth raising.

The one good thing to come out of it was doing a urine test, as I assume that did not show any ketones as nothing was mentioned. Because near the top of the Dapagliflozin leaflet is a list of symptoms for which you should contact a doctor or hospital straight away, and I have all of them save weight loss. Though admittedly I do not tend to smell my urine to know if that has changed odour. So it is my weight I have been watching as a D.K.A. sign.

Which is something I will have to do more seriously now as that is a rare side effect of SGLT2 inhibitors. Although saying that now, I was not warned about that by the doctor, so I guess is not a risk they are concerned about. I was only warned I will urinate more often at first, even though I practically want to go all the time anyway. Which is to be expected given my levels.

When I woke this morning my level at 7am was 16.5, when the nurse tested me at around 10:30am I was 15.1. That from having only drunk water. So these tablets better be good. They simply stop the transport of glucose to the kidneys, so even work on type 1, so they should definitely work. Although removing glucose from the blood means the pancreas is less stimulated, so produces less insulin, reducing the benefit. Hence the D.K.A. risk. And mine is literally working flat out. At least I thought that was what the C-peptide result showed, now I am not sure about that.

Also had my worst ever blood pressure result, I cannot remember exactly but around 150/100. My home test yesterday was 134/89, which was around the upper end of my usual range. I also brought my home testing results from the summer so the nurse was not worried but the doctor was. So she was keen on Metformin and the dapagliflozin as being good for cardiovascular health too.

So I am just left with confusion over what is happening in my body when I thought I knew. I have no idea what precisely I am feeling, or what I am supposed to feel, other than it was a waste of time and being fed up. But I have something new to try, which might fix everything.
Sorry you feel it did not go well for you! Some past members have been disappointed when the hospital referral has fell short of their expectations.
 
Sorry to hear you still din’t seem to be getting any clarity.

Your BG levels still seem uncomfortably high - hope the SGLT2 helps turn things around.

Did you ever get any numbers for your cPeptide test? Do you know where you were in the range?

It still feels like insulin may be where you are headed?
 
Last edited:
My C-peptide result was 1,446 pmol/L against the reference range for "fasting state" of 370 — 1,470. So I can understand why looked at in isolation it seems okay. And as discussed recently on other threads, C-peptide tests seem uncommon so it is little surprise few medics knows how to read them.

Also I do not know what the lab means by "fasting state". NICE apparently considers a healthy fasting state to be under 5.5 mmol/L, and from there to 6.9 mmol/L is "impaired regulation." Even for the sake of doctors it would be helpful if the annotation included the relevant glucose range, and noted that the glucose level should be checked. Which is essentially what it does for B12, whilst under HbA1c it almost gives an how-to for diagnosing diabetes.

Unfortunately the results are lab dependent so each has its own reference ranges. But the example on this web page gives has a similar fasting range, and it says the post-prandial range would be 3,000 – 9,000 pmol/L.

My concurrent fasting glucose level (of over 12 hours) when the test was taken was 11.1 mmol/L. Everything did make sense that I am just not producing enough insulin, and it is consistent with that my levels will go down if I just do not eat. On Tuesday I felt so ill I only ate a bagel during the day and went to bed early without eating, which got my evening and morning levels were 9.7 and 8.9.

I am wondering if I should write to the good G.P., as he was the one who interpreted the results and felt it needed the referral. I am not really sure what to say, but everything seems much less clear now. But mainly I just want the levels down, because they have been too high for too long so I am worried that if the SGLT2i does not work it will just be a further delay. And I just want the headaches and stomach ache to go away.

It has not been the best of days after also trapping my fingers in the leg of an ironing board this morning. And it was the first time I have been out since lockdown without having someone stick a needle in me. Which was a big mistake, as I was supposed to go for my regular blood tests.

I was so stressed about the diabetes clinic I forgot to not take my immunosuppressant this morning, as I cannot take it within twelve hours of the tests as one of them is to check its levels within the blood. So now I will have to make a trip to the hospital on Monday.

The new medication should get off to a good start, though, as I have not eaten anything since a sandwich this afternoon, so my levels in the morning should be in single digits.
 
I personal found Sitaglptin helped control my eating more than Metformin ever did . Though my CCG a couple of years ago requested people were changed to Aloglyptin as it was just as effective and cheaper.
The impaired regulation must be a recent term, when I was diagnosed with Impaired Glucose Tolerance over 20 years, that was done with a Glucose tolerance test which, involved fasting, bloods taken then given measured amount of glucose, and multiple blood tests, over a couple of hours.
 
Status
This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
Back
Top