Told by offhand 'phone call

[Barfly]

Hi. When you say the average seems to be 5-8. Do you mean your other readings through the day, or do you mean the average readings on the "Group 7 day waking average" thread? Just trying to get an idea of whether it is just your morning readings which are out of range or your readings in general? Could you give us an example of a days readings with your menu for that day, so that we have an idea of how your levels are responding to the food you are eating?

Keeping a food diary along with your before and 2 hours after meal readings is an important aspect of figuring it all out in the early days, so do do that if you aren't already and having a structured test routine. You mentioned random testing on the other thread which is why I mention this.

As regards bread, it was one of the things I found most difficult/mind boggling when I first started eating low carb. It is a logistical problem as much as a cultural and dietary shock. We have based our meals around bread for pretty much all our lives and it is a carrier for so many foods which made it the most difficult aspect of changing my diet. Yes I also enjoyed bread but it was the convenience of it which I probably missed most.

Some people buy low carb bread like LivLife or Bergen (if you can manage to source it... it is like gold dust) or Hovis do one I think and some people bake their own but you do need specialist ingredients, some of which you would need to buy online as they are not available in your average supermarket, but you can then use a bread maker for it or give your arm and back muscles a work out and knead it by hand which will also be good for your diabetes management as is any exercise.
I went cold turkey and just cut it out altogether and learned to eat foods that don't need it but it was a slow and frustrating process until I broke the habit. I don't miss it now but it took time to get my head around it.
There are rare occasions when I will make a chaffle and use that instead. This is a combination of beaten egg and grated cheese. I also add a tiny bit of psyllium husk or you can add a teaspoon of coconut flour or ground almonds to give it more substance but I try not to use almond products as much as possible because of their environmental impact. Basically you make a batter with the eggs and cheese beaten together and either put it in a waffle maker or I cook it as a large pancake in a hot frying pan in a little lard or coconut oil. I end up with what is essentially a very thin cheese omelette but works really well when cool as a wrap or carrier for sandwich filling. I really enjoyed it filled with fried black pudding, mushrooms, lettuce, mayonnaise and a couple of thinly sliced cherry tomatoes. You could of course use bacon for a BLT sandwich or sausages, or probably tuna salad. You could make 2 or 3 at a time and store them for use later. They certainly keep fine for a couple of days and just take a few minutes to make.

Anyway, stick at it. It does take time to get it sorted mentally with a new diet as well as levels to start settling down. The important thing is to look at long term trends rather than individual readings which do vary but it is normal for things to be quite erratic at first until you figure out what works for you.

Barbara- Thank you for taking the time and effort to try and steer me through these changes. My real problem is I'm an old meat and three veg man. My idea of exotic foods is spaghetti bolognese or a Chinese from the local take-away, I am still struggling to understand what these new-fangled things called paninis and ciabattas actually are. You can see I'm pretty hopeless. I go to a restaurant and if there's no fillet steak on the menu I walk out. I did try a souffle once in Bordeau and it was pretty good....

So what the hell is a psylium husk? Is it some sort of male appendage from the lesser-spotted Borneo marmoset? Now you have me completely bamboozled........

When you say the average seems to be 5-8. Do you mean your other readings through the day, or do you mean the average readings on the "Group 7 day waking average" thread?

Yes, from the other people in the thread, mine fluctuate wildly from an all-time low of about 7.0 early am before breakfast to a high of 15.9 during the day.

I have attached the raw txt files as this site does not allow spreadsheets. The spreadsheet has data from my home tests with my meter inserted, I have put the raw data in the last text file. The spreadsheet is far easier to read, sorry I can't send it.
Thanks for the idea of a "chaffle". I do enjoy an omelette so this will undoubtedly be my go-to in the future for picnics etc.
Trouble is I really love the extra-strong matured cheddar and I'm not so sure how that will go with the chaffles...
Thanks again, Tony.

 

[rebrascora]

I can assure you that psyllium husk isn't phallic in any way that I am aware of. It is just a fibre supplement which is the main ingredient of Fibogel, the stuff they give older people to keep them regular.
It is clever stuff because it absorbs water to form a soluble Fibre gel which is really good for your digestive system but you can also use it to thicken sauces and batters instead of flour and pretty well carb free. I use a scoop of it in water on a morning with a dash of Apple Cider Vinegar to improve my gut health but it also gets used if I am baking or making a chaffle. A little goes a very long way, but certainly not essential when it comes to making chaffles. I too am a fan of mature cheddar and blue stilton. Not tried a chaffle with the latter but the mature cheddar is fine. I suppose it depends what you are going to have in your chaffle as to whether it goes or not but most things are improved by cheese.

It looks like you have modified your breakfast and cut the slice of toast which is a good first move. You should be trying to make slow sustainable reduction in your carb intake so just making small alterations like that here and there is a good way to do it and I think I see a slight downward trend in your readings but it is early days to see significant improvement and it doesn't look like you have been testing enough to get meaningful data yet.
You might want to weigh your muesli portion and calculating the carbs in it and then use a little plastic carton to mark the level, so that you are getting near enough the same portion every day, because it is so easy to slowly increase how much you dish out each day over a period of time and the suggested portion of these things tends to be much smaller than we end up eating, so it helps to weigh out the recommended portion size and get used to eating that amount. Then maybe shop around for a lower carb variety or swap to a low carb granola as your next move and have it with some full fat Greek natural yoghurt instead of milk... this will help to keep you feeling full for longer because it is more substantial than milk. And then maybe swap your orange for some berries like rasps or blackberries and mix them in with your yoghurt and granola/muesli. Just little tweaks here and there to bring the carb content down slowly.

I also enjoy a glass of port with some nice cheese on an evening or a G&T with olives. Port will raise my levels a little bit (gin doesn't at all) but I do enjoy it and I don't have many carbs throughout the day so feel I can treat myself to a little luxury like that on an evening.

 

[Barfly]

I eat the same way every day - I go out at weekends, in normal times, and it is much easer to eat early, then be out all day - I take water and sometimes a flask of coffee, then eat again when I get home. It means I don't have to worry about taking or finding food out of the house.

I couldn't manage that, but well done you if it works for you.

 

[Barfly]

I can assure you that psyllium husk isn't phallic in any way that I am aware of. It is just a fibre supplement which is the main ingredient of Fibogel, the stuff they give older people to keep them regular.
It is clever stuff because it absorbs water to form a soluble Fibre gel which is really good for your digestive system but you can also use it to thicken sauces and batters instead of flour and pretty well carb free. I use a scoop of it in water on a morning with a dash of Apple Cider Vinegar to improve my gut health but it also gets used if I am baking or making a chaffle. A little goes a very long way, but certainly not essential when it comes to making chaffles. I too am a fan of mature cheddar and blue stilton. Not tried a chaffle with the latter but the mature cheddar is fine. I suppose it depends what you are going to have in your chaffle as to whether it goes or not but most things are improved by cheese.

It looks like you have modified your breakfast and cut the slice of toast which is a good first move. You should be trying to make slow sustainable reduction in your carb intake so just making small alterations like that here and there is a good way to do it and I think I see a slight downward trend in your readings but it is early days to see significant improvement and it doesn't look like you have been testing enough to get meaningful data yet.
You might want to weigh your muesli portion and calculating the carbs in it and then use a little plastic carton to mark the level, so that you are getting near enough the same portion every day, because it is so easy to slowly increase how much you dish out each day over a period of time and the suggested portion of these things tends to be much smaller than we end up eating, so it helps to weigh out the recommended portion size and get used to eating that amount. Then maybe shop around for a lower carb variety or swap to a low carb granola as your next move and have it with some full fat Greek natural yoghurt instead of milk... this will help to keep you feeling full for longer because it is more substantial than milk. And then maybe swap your orange for some berries like rasps or blackberries and mix them in with your yoghurt and granola/muesli. Just little tweaks here and there to bring the carb content down slowly.

I also enjoy a glass of port with some nice cheese on an evening or a G&T with olives. Port will raise my levels a little bit (gin doesn't at all) but I do enjoy it and I don't have many carbs throughout the day so feel I can treat myself to a little luxury like that on an evening.

OK I have already replaced my cornflakes with milk and lashings of cream with 2 spoons of white sugar with a bowl of muesli, removed my toast now you want me to replace milk with yogurt...a step too far for me I'm afraid Barbara. I eat the orange for my daily vitimin c., so won't be replacing that, I may add some sort of berries though down the track.
I have marked a cup with my normal muesli portion, that's another good idea, one day I'll get round to weighing it if I can find the kitchen scales somewhere in the back of a cupboard (we live in a granny/grandad flat so room is at a premium).
Don't get the wrong idea I'm not some sort of alcoholic, I only have a drink maybe twice a week. My one glass of rose every 3-4 evenings with my meal.
There is no way I could do @Drummer's thing of eating mornings and evenings only that's way over the top for me.
Cheers Tony.

 

[Docb]

@Barfly - something I found.... the dried fruit in a decent muesli was a killer, instant double figures. You might get away with it but I couldn't.

These days make my own from toasted oats, lots of toasted nuts and seeds. Eat it with plain Greek yoghourt and some milk.

 

[Barfly]

Blimey-you guys are all angels compared to me ---make your own muesli?? Wow, when do you find the time? In between looking after my autistic gdaughter a couple of days a week, my volunteering at the NHS and my men's shed duties, I wonder how I ever fount the time to work.....

 

[Docb]

Easy... bag of rolled oats, bung in big tray. Bag of nuts, chop and bung in with oats (time about 5 mins). Put in medium oven (15 secs). Go and do something else but pop back now and then to stir. When toasted, leave to cool somewhere whilst you go off and do something else. When cool, put in container and stir in pack of mixed seeds (2 minutes). There you go, muesli (or granola depending on how posh you are) in under 10 minutes attention time. Fraction of the cost of the packet muesli and you know exactly what is in it.

Don't believe all that feminist nonsense, blokes can multitask!

 

[rebrascora]

I eat the orange for my daily vitimin c., so won't be replacing that, I may add some sort of berries though down the track.

Berries contain vitamin C too plus all sorts of other benefits like antioxidants, especially blackcurrants which are "current"ly in season, but importantly for your diabetes management, less carbs than oranges. Cabbage/kale etc is also a good source of Vitamin C and fibre and one of the things that it pays to eat more of as diabetics. I sweat mine in a knob of butter and/or toss in bacon fat, so you don't need your orange to provide Vit C. If you really enjoy it, then fair enough, but be aware that it adds to your carbohydrate intake more than berries would, and what you find when you are tailoring your diet to manage your diabetes is that you have to whittle down your carbs and make choices over which foods you are prepared to sacrifice/remove from the menu to accommodate the ones you really want to keep.
Raspberries are probably my favourite berry and one of the lowest carb fruits you can find and also in season now..... but a portion for me is just 8-10 raspberries. A little goes a long way with berries because they are nutrient dense and flavourful.

 

[Barfly]

Easy... bag of rolled oats, bung in big tray. Bag of nuts, chop and bung in with oats (time about 5 mins). Put in medium oven (15 secs). Go and do something else but pop back now and then to stir. When toasted, leave to cool somewhere whilst you go off and do something else. When cool, put in container and stir in pack of mixed seeds (2 minutes). There you go, muesli (or granola depending on how posh you are) in under 10 minutes attention time. Fraction of the cost of the packet muesli and you know exactly what is in it.

Don't believe all that feminist nonsense, blokes can multitask!

One problem I just bought 7 packets of my normal stuff (ok'd by nursie) on special at Waitrose, 1/3rd the normal price. Take me a few weeks to get through that lot....

 

[Barfly]

I have been eating the same breakfast now for six weeks or more, and still have wild fluctuations in my pre and post breakfast readings. I try to do 2 hrs between brekkie and the last test. This is the result over these six weeks:

July 2021 pre and post breakfast differences in mmol/L

27/7 6.6
28/7 5.0
29/7 5.0
30/7 5.6
31/7 0.1

August 2021

1/8 2.7
2/8 0.0
3/8 -0.2
4/8 0.3
5/8 -1.0
6/8 2.3
7/8 3.1
8/8 2.5
9/8 0.6
10/8 5.2
11/8 2.5

This is my breakfast: 50gm museli, orange I bought a mini-scale and measure my muesli now.

 

[Leadinglights]

I have been eating the same breakfast now for six weeks or more, and still have wild fluctuations in my pre and post breakfast readings. I try to do 2 hrs between brekkie and the last test. This is the result over these six weeks:



This is my breakfast: 50gm museli, orange I bought a mini-scale and measure my muesli now.

Those readings look very odd, especially the 0.0 and others which are all distinctly low and well below what you would normally expect for before meal reading which would 4-7mmol/l

 

[Robin]

Those readings look very odd, especially the 0.0 and others which are all distinctly low and well below what you would normally expect for before meal reading which would 4-7mmol/l

I think the numbers are the difference between the pre and post meal readings, not the actual readings. (and presume the minus figure is where Barfly was lower after breakfast than before)
They look much more settled in August than July, @Barfly , and don’t forget there’s some leeway with meter accuracy as well.

 

[Barfly]

I think the numbers are the difference between the pre and post meal readings, not the actual readings. (and presume the minus figure is where Barfly was lower after breakfast than before)
They look much more settled in August than July, @Barfly , and don’t forget there’s some leeway with meter accuracy as well.

@Robin
Yes you are right, I really should try and make myself clearer. They are the differences between the pre and post brekkie readings.

 

[Docb]

@Barfly - is there any dried fruit in the muesli? Found very early on that my favourite muesli had to go because when one breakfast pushed me well into double figures and a bit of experimentation showed that it was the dried fruit was the culprit. Now make my own mix of toasted oats, nuts and seeds which works very well and keeps blood glucose well within bounds.

 

[Barfly]

@Barfly - is there any dried fruit in the muesli? Found very early on that my favourite muesli had to go because when one breakfast pushed me well into double figures and a bit of experimentation showed that it was the dried fruit was the culprit. Now make my own mix of toasted oats, nuts and seeds which works very well and keeps blood glucose well within bounds.

The one I use is Jordan's Fruit and Nut Muesli in the purple box. Hard to come by, my local Waitrose are the only (intermittent) stockists.

It does contain fruit, but has only 14g of sugar per 100g. My diabetes nurse said it was ok, so when it was on special I bought 6 boxes of it. I only eat 50g a day so it will take a while......
I did think about removing most of the raisins as they are the predominant dried fruit in it, that may help.
Thanks for your reply @Docb
Tony.

 

[Leadinglights]

The one I use is Jordan's Fruit and Nut Muesli in the purple box. Hard to come by, my local Waitrose are the only (intermittent) stockists. View attachment 18308

It does contain fruit, but has only 14g of sugar per 100g. My diabetes nurse said it was ok, so when it was on special I bought 6 boxes of it. I only eat 50g a day so it will take a while......
I did think about removing most of the raisins as they are the predominant dried fruit in it, that may help.
Thanks for your reply @Docb
Tony.

There are a lot of dried fruits in there so likely to be the culprit and at 61.2g carb per 100g your 50g portion will amount to a whopping 30g carb plus the milk.
You may be better to have some full fat Greek yoghurt with just 20g of the muesli, which would probably be more filling anyway and add some extra seeds or nuts.
Anything with dried fruit in is going to be high carb. I have a low sugar granola (Lizi's ) which is 45g carb per 100g but still only have a scattering on my yoghurt and berries.

 

[silentsquirrel]

30g + the carbs in the milk + a whole orange adds up to a lot of carbs, especially at breakfast when many of us cope less well with carbs. Agree full fat yogurt plus a sprinkle of muesli is likely to be better, and maybe drop the orange or just have a couple of segments.

 

[Barfly]

There are a lot of dried fruits in there so likely to be the culprit and at 61.2g carb per 100g your 50g portion will amount to a whopping 30g carb plus the milk.
You may be better to have some full fat Greek yoghurt with just 20g of the muesli, which would probably be more filling anyway and add some extra seeds or nuts.
Anything with dried fruit in is going to be high carb. I have a low sugar granola (Lizi's ) which is 45g carb per 100g but still only have a scattering on my yoghurt and berries.

OK so I take out the raisins. Forget the yogurt thingy, I couldn't cope with that. My cornflakes with lashings of cream and sugar are fading into a distant memory......

 

[Leadinglights]

OK so I take out the raisins. Forget the yogurt thingy, I couldn't cope with that. My cornflakes with lashings of cream and sugar are fading into a distant memory......

It's not just the raisins but the other dried fruits as well, the dates, pineapple, papaya which are high carb. Being dried concentrates the sugar into less weight.

 

[Barfly]

30g + the carbs in the milk + a whole orange adds up to a lot of carbs, especially at breakfast when many of us cope less well with carbs. Agree full fat yogurt plus a sprinkle of muesli is likely to be better, and maybe drop the orange or just have a couple of segments.

As is said to @Leadinglights, yogurt is not going to happen...I know everyone means well, but that's a step too far, already dropped my toast and marmite which I thought was being soooo good..... Orange is for daily vitamin c and my mental health, I actually enjoy the orange/tangerine/satsumas.
I only have proper milk, the blue top, I have given up the proper milk that only comes in litres bottles, you know the yellow stuff that's like we used to have as gold top back when they did deliveries. Can't see the point of this green and red top c**p with all the goodness and guts removed from it.