The future of "vaccine" passports

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Amity Island

Amity Island

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In a recent interview on talk radio, they discuss how a "simple" vaccine passport is turning into what one day could be a personal data storage system.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The NHS app has been updated to include far more than vaccine jabs.<br><br>Julia: &quot;Data relating to mental health, lifestyle, ethnic origin, biometric data and alleged criminal behaviour; what the hell does that have to do with proving you&#39;ve had two jabs!?&quot;<a href="https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@JuliaHB1</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/silkiecarlo?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@silkiecarlo</a> <a href="https://t.co/TFztDpoMpq">pic.twitter.com/TFztDpoMpq</a></p>&mdash; talkRADIO (@talkRADIO) <a href="
https://twitter.com/x/status/1395300419589623808
">May 20, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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talkRadio: just where everyone should go for reliable news.

The NHS app has been around for ages, and yes, can provide access to your health record and to make appointments (though those aren't turned on for me). I've been using it for my repeat prescriptions for a few months.

The covid vaccination status (including the certificate for travel) has just been added. I presume because creating a whole new app would have taken rather longer. And the privacy notice for that just talks about covid vaccination status.

So the app can access a whole lot of information (though it's inaccessible to me, currently) but the bit for covid vaccination status shows just covid vaccination status.
 
Bruce Stephens said:
talkRadio: just where everyone should go for reliable news.

The NHS app has been around for ages, and yes, can provide access to your health record and to make appointments (though those aren't turned on for me). I've been using it for my repeat prescriptions for a few months.

The covid vaccination status (including the certificate for travel) has just been added. I presume because creating a whole new app would have taken rather longer. And the privacy notice for that just talks about covid vaccination status.

So the app can access a whole lot of information (though it's inaccessible to me, currently) but the bit for covid vaccination status shows just covid vaccination status.
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There is absolutely no good excuse for having vaccine passports for domestic usage. I wouldn't even support one for going abroad but it's certainly totally unacceptable to have them for domestic use. Under any circumstances.

I'm not sure where this will end up if they attempt to do something like this. Certainly people like me will never buy a smartphone and would never in a million years consider downloading any NHS App. There must be millions in my position. They can't exclude us. There's simply too many of us.

It's going to be interesting to see how this proceeds but it's crystal clear that nobody in government can be trusted right now.

There's Hancock standing up today to defend himself against accusations of being a liar and almost immediately tells another massive lie regarding the numbers of daily vaccinations happening in Bolton at the moment. It's almost as if these people are determined to permanently break the institution of parliament, and any notion of accountability and democracy.
We've managed to surpass Trump in terms of our credibility. It's worth letting that sink in for a moment.
 
pm133 said:
There is absolutely no good excuse for having vaccine passports for domestic usage. I wouldn't even support one for going abroad but it's certainly totally unacceptable to have them for domestic use.
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I don't think it's likely to be practical for domestic use, and for international travel it's not our choice anyway, and some countries are going to require vaccination (and/or a test).

I can imagine some events doing it, I guess, like festivals which are long enough that making entry much slower might be justified. I still doubt it'll happen.

I think the wording in the app on domestic use is just that they want it to be possible. They don't know whether it would make sense for anyone to do it but want to make sure it can happen if it does turn out to be helpful.

And yes, not everyone has this app anyway. (I started using it for requesting repeat prescriptions after my GP surgery changed their system but otherwise I wouldn't bother.)
 
The recent update to the NHS App included the inclusion of an Vaccination Certificate.

I have no issue with a record of vaccinations and immunisations being held within my wider medical record, but having looked at this, it includes a QR code and when I downloaded my certificate I was horrified to find it included the detail of which vaccine I had received, and when.

In my opinion, nobody needs that. Nobody.

Anyone in a position to need a complete picture of my health will have access to my medical records in any case. That includes the details held on the certificate.

I don't like it one bit, and it feels like the sharp end of the wedge.
 
AndBreathe said:
it includes a QR code and when I downloaded my certificate I was horrified to find it included the detail of which vaccine I had received, and when.
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For international travel a country might not accept all vaccines (the EU is requiring only those approved as effective by the EMA, I think), and will presumably require that it's at least 2 weeks from the second dose. And maybe (depending on how things work out) they'll require a recent enough vaccination, too.
 
Amity Island said:
I Didn't know that.
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That seems to be the plan (though this story suggests they might accept WHO approved vaccines too). Doesn't really matter for us since the list includes all vaccines approved in the UK (and we're surely not going to approve any that won't also be accepted by the EU). (There's a separate plan for travel within the EU which (for vaccines) looks rather similar.)

www.bbc.co.uk

EU unveils plans for overseas tourists to return

The proposals will allow fully vaccinated non-EU travellers to enter for non-essential purposes.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Bruce Stephens said:
I don't think it's likely to be practical for domestic use, and for international travel it's not our choice anyway, and some countries are going to require vaccination (and/or a test).

I can imagine some events doing it, I guess, like festivals which are long enough that making entry much slower might be justified. I still doubt it'll happen.

I think the wording in the app on domestic use is just that they want it to be possible. They don't know whether it would make sense for anyone to do it but want to make sure it can happen if it does turn out to be helpful.

And yes, not everyone has this app anyway. (I started using it for requesting repeat prescriptions after my GP surgery changed their system but otherwise I wouldn't bother.)
Click to expand...

To be honest, I'm not convinced they'll introduce them for domestic use either.

Just the thought of it though...
 
Amity Island said:
When you say accept "vaccines" is that essentially accept "people", cos without the vaccine they won't accept people.
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I think it’s an example of synecdoche. (Using a part to describe the whole, or vice versa, as in 'I bought new wheels' meaning 'I bought a new car').
In other words, using the term 'approved vaccines' as shorthand for 'people who have been vaccinated with approved vaccines'
 
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Amity Island said:
When you say accept "vaccines" is that essentially accept "people"
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I mean in the context of the plan to allow travel of people who've received vaccination, not all vaccines might count. There are four listed in the story as acceptable for this purpose, and there's talk of delegating that decision to the WHO (which may be in a better position to judge some of the vaccines unlikely to be used in the EU).
 
Bruce Stephens said:
I mean in the context of the plan to allow travel of people who've received vaccination, not all vaccines might count. There are four listed in the story as acceptable for this purpose, and there's talk of delegating that decision to the WHO (which may be in a better position to judge some of the vaccines unlikely to be used in the EU).
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Ive been watching his with interest, because we have a holiday booked in mid July that starts in Hungary.( It got put off from May 2020. I’m fully expecting it to be cancelled, I just wish the tour company would get on and do it). Hungary have been getting very jittery about the fact that they have used the sinopharm and the sputnik, and the EU hadn't put these on its approved list. Hungary was saying it would only let people in if they had a recognised vaccine certificate, and the only certificates they would recognise were ones from countries that had signed a reciprocal agreement with Hungary to recognise Hungary's vaccine certificates.
 
Robin said:
Hungary was saying it would only let people in if they had a recognised vaccine certificate, and the only certificates they would recognise were ones from countries that had signed a reciprocal agreement with Hungary to recognise Hungary's vaccine certificates.
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On the positive side I doubt there's any problem with Sinopharm or Sputnik V (I seem to remember there being a trial mixing Sputnik V and Oxford/AstraZeneca for example, though I guess that's on hold for the moment).

On the negative side, I doubt signing such an agreement with Hungary is high on the UK government's list.

(I'm still due to go on holiday to Sicily in October (carried over from last year), though I'm assuming it's just a question of when it's cancelled rather than if.)
 
Martin.A said:
The little card they give you when you get your vaccination has this information on it too, together with advice to keep it in your purse or wallet, which I do.
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Not all cards carry that information. Some simply carry the dates.
 
AndBreathe said:
Not all cards carry that information. Some simply carry the dates.
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The ones for this vaccination all do, don't they? I thought they did in order to make doubly sure that the second dose is of the same vaccine as the first. (I can believe in non-England parts of the UK they have slightly different systems. I'd still have thought it made sense to have a card with the vaccine brand on it since they are each a bit different and people don't necessarily remember.)
 
My card is printed with boxes for 'Name of vaccine' and 'batch number' and 'date', which have been duly filled in. If this info doesn’t appear, then has the card not been completed correctly?
 
Robin said:
If this info doesn’t appear, then has the card not been completed correctly?
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I'd have thought it's incomplete, yes. (Mine has those boxes filled, at any rate.) Not that it matters that much: I'm sure the information is recorded (the NHS app reports it all for me, and it matches what's on the card).
 
Bruce Stephens said:
The ones for this vaccination all do, don't they? I thought they did in order to make doubly sure that the second dose is of the same vaccine as the first. (I can believe in non-England parts of the UK they have slightly different systems. I'd still have thought it made sense to have a card with the vaccine brand on it since they are each a bit different and people don't necessarily remember.)
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No. This is in England. In fact, it was a factoid used to identify which clinic had identified a lady hoping to be vaccinated. That her card held that information "proved" it had been given by one of a couple of surgeries.

To be honest, having been present at many vaccination sessions, alongside many surgeries (multiple surgeries hosting in the same time slots), they all seem to have their own way of making it work for them - from patients waiting, post-vaccine for ALL vaccines, to AZ vaccines being delivered with the patient standing, to chairs being laid out in particular forms, to paperwork being completed in various ways, to "clinic" letters dispatched to surgeries, post-session.
 
I don't have a passport, so I don't want a vaccine one. As has been pointed out, vaccinated folk could pick up the virus and pass it on. So what's their purpose? They won't be accepted in some countries, who still require tests.

Let's just vaccinate all the adults and just say sod it, let's act normal. If other countries want to do tests, so be it. Open up the borders to other countries when they have sorted themselves out.

And for heaven's sake, can we please stop washing the skin off our hands?
 
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