The challenge - My story + How does one choose the best approach to Type 2 Diabetes Remission?

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OK1

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
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Rather than starting a new thread, I wish I could have contributed to this other thread (link below), but that thread is now closed.

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Thread 'Conflicting Diets'

Hi, newb here. I have been diagnosed as pre-diabetic but also suffer from reflux/hiatus hernia. A low carb diet would seem to be favoured for pre-diabetes whilst a low fat diet is essential to tackle the reflux problem. Has anyone else faced this dichotomy?, and how did you resolve it? Thanks.

So here I go. I received my diagnosis of diabetes about a month ago. I do not have all the stats, most likely will go back to the doctor and obtain them. E.g HbA1c, blood pressure, etc, etc. Anyway, I have been researching health for about 20 years, and doing my own bit to live healthy, nevertheless I had become obese - according to the BMI, so my blood pressure is high, and I am, according to the doctor, diabetic. Double whammy. The 1st two weeks was a roller coaster of emotions. A very serene time, which included a discussion with the diabetic nurse at the GP practice. Sobering. What to eat, what not to eat. But then I remembered that I have heard about remission of diabetes, and discussed this with others, years ago, who had become diabetic or were prediabetic, now it was my turn, to practice what I had preached.

The opportunity and hope of remission is life changing, turning what should have been a death sentence into a call for resilience, discipline and recovery. Probably the most humiliating things about a diabetes diagnosis, are :

1st the guilt - oh why did this happen to me?
2nd - it is my fault, I should have known better and done better.
3rd - especially when prescribed medicines for blood pressure and diabetes, the lack of control. Now I have to submit to hospital visits, and check ins, and be told what to do, by some young uns. That part is kind of humiliating, like being treated like a child again. Someone else is now in charge of my life, telling me what to do !!. About some of the most intimate parts of me, my food, what to do with my body(exercise), and when to go to bed (sleep), etc, etc.. When was the last time anyone had such control over my life? !!!

Continued in the next post, cos this could be a long one.
 
Anyway, having finally resolved that I will, by the grace of God, beat this challenge and achieve remission, how do I achieve it. I know it is possible. Even on the BBC, on several occasions, it has been announced. And there are hundreds of Youtube videos on the subject of remission, and thousands on the subject of diabetes.

But which one of these "experts" is right, cos there seem to be so many approaches.

1. High Fat, Low Carb
2. Whole Foods Plant Based (leaning towards High Carb, Low Fat - and pretty much in many cases excluding any animal based food sources), Some variants permit some meat and fish.
3. Carnivore
4. Ketogenic

etc, etc.

This is part of the confusion. So many divergent views, and the more you study them, the more one can get confused. Is the problem coming from the source of food - animals, or plants. These professionals and in some cases - just influencers with little to back up their assertions, which are typically regurgitating and doing so rather poorly - the opinions of others, are not agreed on anything. Some focus on food, others on insulin, others on Glycemic Index, in all the confusion it is a nightmare to decipher what is the priority in an approach to turning the clock back on diabetes.

Continued in the next post
 
My initial effort was focussed on the low carb approach, so I cut out almost completely all obvious carbs. I have been zero sugar for at least 10 years, before my diabetes diagnosis, and rarely had sugar laden drinks, over the most recent few years, So there really was no additional sugar in my diet to cut out, cos I was NOT regularly having any sugar in my food.

I had stopped adding sugar to cereals, about 6 or 7 years ago, or more, and had stopped having cereals maybe 2 years ago, So what was left to cut out - bread, occasional pasta and rice. No issues, I cut these out also, for at least 3 weeks, to kick off my journey.

Unfortunately cos retesting is done every three months, and my next appointment is in approx 2 months from now, I do not know how well I am doing, cos I do not have a glucose monitor and I am not testing my blood levels at home. No way to know if I am improving my results or not. One important observation though - gone is the thirst, and I have no need for drinking large amounts of water. That is completely gone.

To be continued
 
Then added at least a 30 minute walk a day.

The began to eat mostly no more than twice a day, and on many days - only once. OMAD (one meal a day).

Reviewed my supplements, which had been only Vitamin D, to which I added Magnesium Glycinate. And added one fruit a day, with good Vitamin C content, e.g a Kiwi. or half an orange, before my daily walk.

While there may be the information out there, it is still pretty hard to find the information on exactly what approach to take, especially self supervised, to achieve diabetes remission. I happen to live in Wales, and let's just say, their approach is not as rigorous as what obtains in England. There is no proper support programme, similar to the England one, for aggressive attention to diabetes remission.

I was the one - informing the doctor who pronounced my diagnosis, of the fact that I was aware of diabetes remission, and that would be my intention. If I had not known about the possibility that diabetes can be reversed, that would have been the end of it, for me, no hope. And I consider this an injustice against any human being. The doctor was completely unaware of the potential for a complete reversal of diabetes - aka remission, and did NOT discuss this with me. Like I said I was the one informing the doctor of what I knew, that it was possible to have remission. All the doctor was interested in was prescribing me high blood pressure meds and Metformin. The doctor had done their job, and given me a life sentence, sentenced to medicines for the rest of my life. That is standard procedure in our NHS.

Looking back, this is a tragedy. I can imagine hundreds of thousands of people, receiving their diagnosis, with no information from the medical professional, of the possibility of remission, as something to aim for. Even if one were NOT to achieve remission, at the very least, the drug dosage would be reduced, at the very least, either soon, or sometime in the future, and the patient could get back control of their life - almost sounding like a Brexiteer - where is Boris Johnson.?

TBC
 
I am very fortunate, I was independently aware of diabetes remission, very fortunate, or I would have been doomed without hope.

To cut a long story short, After three or so weeks, I discovered the work of Professor Roy Taylor, via a Youtube video. Purely by accident, and this completely changed my life. Hope. Here was very credible evidence of exactly what I needed to do to put my diabetes in remission. No ifs, no buts. A well thought through approach, with solid logic behind it, that was the equivalent of Einstein's theories of relativity, unifying space, and time.

Roy Taylor's hypothesis, helped to explain why various approaches to diabetic remission all work. It was NOT about the food or type of food, but simply about reversing fat that had accumulated on vital organs, such as the pancreas and liver. Simply reverse this - how - lose weight, and these organs will be restored sufficiently to put right what has gone wrong, and some of this reversal can be achieved within 7 days, for the liver, and within 8 weeks, for remission of T2D.

My goodness. This was unbelievable. Someone had cracked the code. A Brit. Why is he not on the news every day as a celebrity. Next to Jesus, he's my saviour. Solved the puzzle. His hypothesis explains why both the Rice Diet - based on rice, sugar and fruits, as well as a Low Carb diet, both work, on reversing T2D. It is not about the food, but the weight loss, leading to a removal of fat from the liver and the pancreas.

TBC
 
This man's work (and collaborations with others) has simplified T2D remission, into a simple factor - lose weight, no further instructions. Not even exercise is compulsory, just lose weight, and when you have lost enough weight, your T2D will be gone. And the reasons for this - removal of fat in the pancreas and liver, are very well explained.

Why did the doctor and nurse not tell me this. Are they ignorant of this? Which would be unfortunate.

So that is the plan. Hoping to lose at least 2 kilograms every month, without fail, via whatever form of calorie restriction, that I can consistently follow. Estimated that if I can eat no more than 1200 Calories a day, I should be able to achieve at least 2 kilograms lost every month. Still not the most rapid weight loss ever, but a definite achievement.

By adding vegetables and fruits regularly to my meals, I had already lost 3 kilograms over the recent year, before my diagnosis, with no effort whatsoever, just that - no exercise to write home about. So losing 2 kilograms a month would be at least 20 kilograms over the next year. I have about 22 kilograms to lose, to get to my normal weight according to the BMI index.

What I love about this is the single factor, not 20 different things to worry about. Just lose weight, and keep off the excess weight. That's all. What an amazing approach., with no complications of eat this, and eat that, or do not eat this or that. Whatever you do, just lose excess weight. Simples.
 
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Remission is possible and many of us have managed it, but not everyone does even if they do all the right things. No one knows why it works for some and not others.

The current definition is 3 months with an HbA1c below 48 without taking any diabetes medication.

You'd find a BG monitor invaluable in tracking your progress. The numbers won't correlate directly with HbA1c but if you stick to a testing regime, rather than testing randomly, you should get an idea as to whether your numbers are starting to trend downwards, which is what you're aiming for.

You've come to the right place for advice and it'll be coming from people managing their diabetes day-to-day. Welcome aboard.
 
OK1 said:
What I love about this is the single factor, not 20 different things to worry about. Just lose weight, and keep off the excess weight. That's all. What an amazing approach., with no complications of eat this, and eat that, or do not eat this or that. Whatever you do, just lose excess weight. Simples.
Click to expand...
Not quite - we have members who were diagnosed T2 even though they were neither obese nor overweight, so losing weight wasn't an option as they had none to lose. For them the diet/being more active routes were the only options.
 
OK1 said:
What I love about this is the single factor, not 20 different things to worry about. Just lose weight, and keep off the excess weight. That's all. What an amazing approach., with no complications of eat this, and eat that, or do not eat this or that. Whatever you do, just lose excess weight. Simples.
Click to expand...

Not so sure that it's that simple.
I lost weight and have been at normal levels (36-38) for almost 3 years, but I still have to be careful with diet.
I certainly haven't gone back to my old way of eating, apart from the odd occasion and when I'm on holiday (Where I walk a lot anyway, and I find that brings levels down very quickly if they have gone up.)
 
harbottle said:
Not so sure that it's that simple.
I lost weight and have been at normal levels (36-38) for almost 3 years, but I still have to be careful with diet.
I certainly haven't gone back to my old way of eating, apart from the odd occasion and when I'm on holiday (Where I walk a lot anyway, and I find that brings levels down very quickly if they have gone up.)
Click to expand...
I agree. I started off with a diet only and daily testing protocol which worked very well for me for a long time, however in recent years, even after adding in a dog for exercise! diet alone is not working for me. I am, apprehensively, about to start on Metformin and hoping that it might also help with my hangover type symptoms of long covid.

Of course, "simples" is great if it works but I was stubbornly attached to self help only, which in the end hasn't really done me any favours in the last 12 months. These days I am taking a gentler and more flexible approach with my T2D. Remission is my goal by the most effective route possible.

Good luck on your journey, OK1.
 
Ruby/London said:
I agree. I started off with a diet only and daily testing protocol which worked very well for me for a long time, however in recent years, even after adding in a dog for exercise! diet alone is not working for me. I am, apprehensively, about to start on Metformin and hoping that it might also help with my hangover type symptoms of long covid.

Of course, "simples" is great if it works but I was stubbornly attached to self help only, which in the end hasn't really done me any favours in the last 12 months. These days I am taking a gentler and more flexible approach with my T2D. Remission is my goal by the most effective route possible.

Good luck on your journey, OK1.
Click to expand...
Thanks.

When I think of diabetes, it's a condition where the diagnosis involves a range, and somewhere along that range, one is declared diabetic, cos the health professionals have chosen a specific threshold, such as a certain HbA1c cutoff mark, and maintaining this for three months. i.e at least two consecutive blood tests three months apart.

But if one recognises that there is also prediabetes, and the lower threshold of prediabetes, is also an arbitrary one decided by health professionals.

All these thresholds are valid, they have to choose something. Similar to blood pressure, once upon a time, systolic needed to be above 140 before it was considered kind of serious, but I understand that in the United States, in some practices, anything above 120, is immediately given closer attention. My point is that the thresholds are subject to change, as the medical profession learns more or changes its mind.

Remission is fantastic, the idea of it. Nevertheless it still is based on an chosen threshold or set of thresholds. Diabetes is not like an on/off switch, but an entire spectrum from slightly elevated blood sugars, to much higher values.

With all this in mind, while obtaining "official" remission is a laudable goal to strive for, what is more important to me, is being given back some control, that says - hey - you can be in charge of this, to a significant extent, and are not powerless. However small the needle moves, in the positive direction, that is still such a wonderful thing. If I put it another way, the possibility to have as many as possible, reverse, improve/adjust the ravage of the condition, in whatever manner - with or without medication, should be the ultimate benefit.

1st - stopping things getting worse.

2nd - starting to improve things.

3rd - maintaining any efforts that sustain the 1st and the 2nd objective.

To be continued.
 
OK1 said:
Thanks.

When I think of diabetes, it's a condition where the diagnosis involves a range, and somewhere along that range, one is declared diabetic, cos the health professionals have chosen a specific threshold, such as a certain HbA1c cutoff mark, and maintaining this for three months. i.e at least two consecutive blood tests three months apart.

But if one recognises that there is also prediabetes, and the lower threshold of prediabetes, is also an arbitrary one decided by health professionals.

All these thresholds are valid, they have to choose something. Similar to blood pressure, once upon a time, systolic needed to be above 140 before it was considered kind of serious, but I understand that in the United States, in some practices, anything above 120, is immediately given closer attention. My point is that the thresholds are subject to change, as the medical profession learns more or changes its mind.

Remission is fantastic, the idea of it. Nevertheless it still is based on an chosen threshold or set of thresholds. Diabetes is not like an on/off switch, but an entire spectrum from slightly elevated blood sugars, to much higher values.

With all this in mind, while obtaining "official" remission is a laudable goal to strive for, what is more important to me, is being given back some control, that says - hey - you can be in charge of this, to a significant extent, and are not powerless. However small the needle moves, in the positive direction, that is still such a wonderful thing. If I put it another way, the possibility to have as many as possible, reverse, improve/adjust the ravage of the condition, in whatever manner - with or without medication, should be the ultimate benefit.

1st - stopping things getting worse.

2nd - starting to improve things.

3rd - maintaining any efforts that sustain the 1st and the 2nd objective.

To be continued.
Click to expand...

Hopefully anyone who has diabetes, or any other ailment, who has the ability to do something about it, already has a lifelong additional responsibility, to take care of themselves, with more attention, than the non-diabetic person.

So the working towards remission, whether by weight loss, or other lifestyle targets - such as exercise, or better sleep, etc, etc, or in conjunction with medication, I think can be a truly positive response, to the initial shock of the diagnosis. I think this ambition, while it is an extra burden, transforms the patient from a victim, to an involved actor, empowering them to daily, make that next step, take that next action, in a positive direction. Hope. Nothing like hope.

And nothing as good as being able to tell yourself, I am doing the very best I know how to do. And having done that, one does this every day, and if one fails a bit on any day, you pick things up the next day, and continue.

I would like to think, far more important than an event where one is declared to be in remission, which is a one off event, the more pertinent matter is - have I done well yesterday, am I doing by best today, what coping strategies are working best for me, and how am I improving daily with my own management of diabetes. Especially as remission is NOT a cure, even those who have had this event pronounced, are still on a life long journey, to continue to do the best they can.

Remission - sure, great idea, laudable achievement, but each day should have its own remission - based on - not results, but action - have I done ALL that I know to do today? Taking it one day at a time, for a lifetime. And winning the battle of doing one's best, each day. That's all we can do really. Do our best.
 
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For me - who is definitely larger than I should be, besides improvements in diabetes, I look forward to other positives - A positive body image, something I have not had for a while. Now each day I am out and about, I'm looking at my reflection in car windows, or house windows. It would be wonderful to get the tummy flat again. Oh that would be amazing ! A lifetime achievement.

I understand it would also reduce my high blood pressure, reduce cardiovascular risks, etc, etc.

And being able to move without that excess body weight, wow that would be wonderful, being able to walk and run, without being self conscious about the belly.

So the weight loss for me will kill several birds with one stone. And as I said earlier, looks like my focus should not be on the remission, but rather about the daily maximum effort. If I achieve remission "officially" super, but that's a one off event. Far more important is - what did I do yesterday, how am I doing today with my planned actions, what will I be doing tomorrow to stay on track, and how am I planning my lifestyle to cope with the interruptions like social events, so that on average, I remain on track.

Appreciate all the responses here. Thanks.
 
The hba1c thresholds aren't arbitrary, but developed from clinical studies looking into incidences of retinopathy. They found that keeping hba1c < 48 kept risks low, but being < 42 had virtually no risk. (This condition was used as it's specific to diabetes.)
 
OK1 said:
For me - who is definitely larger than I should be, besides improvements in diabetes, I look forward to other positives - A positive body image, something I have not had for a while. Now each day I am out and about, I'm looking at my reflection in car windows, or house windows. It would be wonderful to get the tummy flat again. Oh that would be amazing ! A lifetime achievement.

I understand it would also reduce my high blood pressure, reduce cardiovascular risks, etc, etc.

And being able to move without that excess body weight, wow that would be wonderful, being able to walk and run, without being self conscious about the belly.

So the weight loss for me will kill several birds with one stone. And as I said earlier, looks like my focus should not be on the remission, but rather about the daily maximum effort. If I achieve remission "officially" super, but that's a one off event. Far more important is - what did I do yesterday, how am I doing today with my planned actions, what will I be doing tomorrow to stay on track, and how am I planning my lifestyle to cope with the interruptions like social events, so that on average, I remain on track.

Appreciate all the responses here. Thanks.
Click to expand...

That's the approach I used, broadly.
I didn't really think about getting it into remission, as I didn't know it was a 'thing', just concentrated on losing weight to see 'what happened' which is pretty much what the GP told me to do at diagnosis.
 
OK1 said:
1. High Fat, Low Carb
2. Whole Foods Plant Based (leaning towards High Carb, Low Fat - and pretty much in many cases excluding any animal based food sources), Some variants permit some meat and fish.
3. Carnivore
4. Ketogenic

etc, etc.

This is part of the confusion. So many divergent views, and the more you study them, the more one can get confused.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum @OK1

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I understand what you mean about confusion, but having observed many, many, newbie T2s over the years, I have begun to see the range and variety of options and alternatives as a benefit, not a drawback.

Not all approaches work for everyone… and not all approaches ‘fit’ with everyone’s lifestyle, or appeal to them, or are sustainable and workable long term.

So the fact that there are multiple successful strategies I think is brilliant. A person can try the one they like the sound of… see how it works. Then if the results aren’t as hoped, they can try a different approach, or adjust and adapt their initial attempt.

Diabetes is frustrating, fickle, and fiercely individual - from what I can see, each person really needs to build a toolkit of diabetes management techniques that suits their diabetes, their metabolism, their genetic make-up, their wallet, and their tastebuds 🙂
 
I haven't got my head around my diagnosis. I haven't seen a Doctor our practice seems to be nurse orientated. I have had high blood pressure for 15 years and now wish someone had been sterner with me. My bmi slipped into the obese category and although I lost a few lbs and made the effort not to increase (in old money I didn't want to hit 14 stone) on the rare occasions I went to the gym I would put my weight as 90 kg although I was always slightly below it. Approximately annually I have a blood test and blood pressure taken. Sometimes I'm weighed. I assumed as an older fatty with high blood pressure I was tested for diabetes. Years ago I used to have a pee test and I assumed they checked for sugar in the urine. 5 years ago they stopped the pee tests. I was contacted in June to say my cholestral was up. I think it was five. I had a discussion with a health care professional who wanted to consider stating. I discovered I hadn't been tested for diabetes and knowing I had potential symptoms tingling feet and peeing more I asked to be tested. I was told over the phone my test was 69. They tested four weeks later even though it was obvious I was diabetic and it was 64. When I asked for some Web links after the first test the health care person wrote"you seemed shocked at the reading" DN nurse didn't weigh me or foot check and later confirmed by phone meds. Today my metaformin dose increased to four a day
What have I learned? My mothers advice to us "don't bother the doctors" is foolish. I don't feel entitled but will now be more pushy.
I don't have a smart phone but am now considering downloading the nhs app. I can then discover when if at all I was checked for diabetes. I have been told my kidney function is fine.
This forum is so helpful. After a few weeks before I'd seen the nurse I was able to have a chat and they sent me leaflets.
I'm impressed how organised and motivated people are. I like to think if I had been tested I would have found a warning about the increasing numbers motivating.
I have not tried a diet plan yet and may buy a monitor if only to discover if porridge OK in the winter. However I am eating to reduce my cholestral and also checking but not counting carbs. Having been diagnosed at the end of July but moderating my diet at end of June I am now 12 and half stone 79 kg.

I have an appointment next week when I assume my meds will increase but I hope my reading will have reduced again.
When I was a teenager I gave up sugar in drinks and on cereal. I've never liked fizzy drinks so there was no obvious quick fix.
 
Well done @saffron15 on your weight loss. Unfortunately your experience with your HCPs is all too common so it's nice to read that you've found the forum helpful. Keep posting and please keep us up-to-date with your progress.
 
saffron15 said:
I haven't got my head around my diagnosis. I haven't seen a Doctor our practice seems to be nurse orientated. I have had high blood pressure for 15 years and now wish someone had been sterner with me. My bmi slipped into the obese category and although I lost a few lbs and made the effort not to increase (in old money I didn't want to hit 14 stone) on the rare occasions I went to the gym I would put my weight as 90 kg although I was always slightly below it. Approximately annually I have a blood test and blood pressure taken. Sometimes I'm weighed. I assumed as an older fatty with high blood pressure I was tested for diabetes. Years ago I used to have a pee test and I assumed they checked for sugar in the urine. 5 years ago they stopped the pee tests. I was contacted in June to say my cholestral was up. I think it was five. I had a discussion with a health care professional who wanted to consider stating. I discovered I hadn't been tested for diabetes and knowing I had potential symptoms tingling feet and peeing more I asked to be tested. I was told over the phone my test was 69. They tested four weeks later even though it was obvious I was diabetic and it was 64. When I asked for some Web links after the first test the health care person wrote"you seemed shocked at the reading" DN nurse didn't weigh me or foot check and later confirmed by phone meds. Today my metaformin dose increased to four a day
What have I learned? My mothers advice to us "don't bother the doctors" is foolish. I don't feel entitled but will now be more pushy.
I don't have a smart phone but am now considering downloading the nhs app. I can then discover when if at all I was checked for diabetes. I have been told my kidney function is fine.
This forum is so helpful. After a few weeks before I'd seen the nurse I was able to have a chat and they sent me leaflets.
I'm impressed how organised and motivated people are. I like to think if I had been tested I would have found a warning about the increasing numbers motivating.
I have not tried a diet plan yet and may buy a monitor if only to discover if porridge OK in the winter. However I am eating to reduce my cholestral and also checking but not counting carbs. Having been diagnosed at the end of July but moderating my diet at end of June I am now 12 and half stone 79 kg.

I have an appointment next week when I assume my meds will increase but I hope my reading will have reduced again.
When I was a teenager I gave up sugar in drinks and on cereal. I've never liked fizzy drinks so there was no obvious quick fix.
Click to expand...
All the very best wishes from me.
 
Am I glad, we have a space to "unburden", take things off our chest. That alone is welcome. I revealed to my siblings that I was diabetic, about two weeks ago, and today my brother let up that he had been hypertensive and diabetic for up to 3 years, never mentioned it and was taking medication to manage both of these. I have another sister who also was diagnosed with diabetes about two years ago, She was the 1st in my sibling family, to know of her diabetes status. Now there are three of us !!.

Can imagine that if I had not spoken up about my own situation, my brother may have just kept his health status private, for God knows many more years.

I was the one explaining to my sister after she was diagnosed, that diabetes could be put into remission, now it's my turn. To put my money where my mouth was.
 
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