t1 - how long do you wait to correct morning liver dump

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void

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Type 1.5 LADA
Hi,

Question as subject - do you wait till you can't see bg increasing or do you counter it there and then?

I think maybe I shouldn't counter it till i've been awake a few hrs if only to avoid daily
battles with endogenous cortisol. But it screws up my numbers. My green range is 3.9-8.0.
Liver dump/cortisol bumps my numbers to just outside of range.

If you do counter it with rapid, do you counter as soon as you see it, or 1hr, 2hrs, 3hrs, 4? MDI or pump?
 
I think the answer is the good ole …
You need to work out what works for you through trial and error.

Many people find it is predictable so they can preemptively bolus for the right before it happens rather than correct the high.
 
helli said:
I think the answer is the good ole …
You need to work out what works for you through trial and error.

Many people find it is predictable so they can preemptively bolus for the right before it happens rather than correct the high.
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OK, so, in other words, you'd counter it? I can't counter it at the start because it happens when I'm asleep and seems well underway the moment I wake up. I'd have to counter it the moment I see it.
 
I try to prevent it by correcting before it happens not waiting till afterwards
 
void said:
OK, so, in other words, you'd counter it? I can't counter it at the start because it happens when I'm asleep and seems well underway the moment I wake up. I'd have to counter it the moment I see it.
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Dawn phenomenon - I have a pump so use that. But when I take a pump break and go back to injections, I counter it or not depending on how high it is and what I’m doing that morning.

Time in Range is 3.9 to 10. If you’re mainly under 8 and only occasionally venturing higher then you’re doing very well.
 
I inject 1.5-2 units of fast acting insulin (depending upon waking reading), as soon as I wake up and always before I get out of bed to preempt it. I am lucky that it mostly waits until I wake up. I generally combine it with my breakfast bolus, so just the one injection for breakfast and "Foot on the Floor" plus any normal correction required for if I am high, as soon as I wake up and then I usually need to wait 45 mins before I eat breakfast and that works pretty consistently for me. If I am not having breakfast, I still need that 1.5-2 units so I don't consider it part of my breakfast ratio, but just an add on to supplement my basal.
 
Inka said:
Time in Range is 3.9 to 10. If you’re mainly under 8 and only occasionally venturing higher then you’re doing very well.
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I'm into getting the numbers below 8 cos last retinopathy showed background in one eye and losing sight or having problems with it beyond just needing glasses is scary. The odd short-time excursion above 8 I've not got an issue with.

Observationally, fighting consequences of cortisol at the moment they are happening leads to the liver fighting back. Maybe that's just me, but like I said, observationally (over the last few days). Maybe it'll settle in.
Today is a bad day. There were leftover spicy lentils from the night before. They hardly move the meter normally.
But then "normally" is right after they've been cooked.

Had em for breakfast. Bad move!!! Maybe the starch molecules rearranged themselves to conspire against my digestion, in order to score higher on the meter 😉 Like rice can do. (i avoid rice it's too much of a headache)
 
Some days are just like that @void No rhyme and no reason to them. Yes, any worry about complications is scary. Hopefully the background retinopathy will resolve. It’s not uncommon to have that (terrifying, frankly) result at one test and then have everything back to normal at the next test. Over my 30 years of Type 1, I’ve had a couple of scares like that and they’re horrible and gut-wrenching. I hope your next check shows nothing and all’s back to normal.
 
rebrascora said:
I inject 1.5-2 units of fast acting insulin (depending upon waking reading), as soon as I wake up and always before I get out of bed to preempt it. I am lucky that it mostly waits until I wake up. I generally combine it with my breakfast bolus, so just the one injection for breakfast and "Foot on the Floor" plus any normal correction required for if I am high, as soon as I wake up and then I usually need to wait 45 mins before I eat breakfast and that works pretty consistently for me. If I am not having breakfast, I still need that 1.5-2 units so I don't consider it part of my breakfast ratio, but just an add on to supplement my basal.
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what do you have for breakfast, carb-wise?
Some of the research I've been doing suggests that if one has a low (or 0-carb) breakfast, or no breakfast at all, then a liver dump will happen (not immediately on waking up or FOTF,), but throughout the day until the next meal.
Great for the non-diabetic but problematic if taking insulin.
 
void said:
what do you have for breakfast, carb-wise?
Some of the research I've been doing suggests that if one has a low (or 0-carb) breakfast, or no breakfast at all, then a liver dump will happen (not immediately on waking up or FOTF,), but throughout the day until the next meal.
Great for the non-diabetic but problematic if taking insulin.
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I almost always have natural creamy Greek style yoghurt with a few berries, mixed seeds, cinnamon and a sprinkle of nutty granola. I bolus 3.5 units for it.
If I have a low carb breakfast like eggs or other protein, then I need to bolus for the protein but that needs to be done about 2 hours after I have eaten. This is protein release not liver dump and happens whatever time of day I have a low carb higher protein meal. I still need that 1.5-2 units when I wake up, whether I am having an omelette which will then require more insulin (usually 2 units) later or my yoghurt breakfast which will require the 3.5 bolus units at the same time as the preemptive Foot on the Floor correction.
 
My rise starts at 4am usually, and accelerates after I've woken up. If I didn’t take some novorapid as a soon as I wake up, I’d be in double figures by 10am. (I know because I've experimented on weekends when I have a lie in and a cup of tea with the papers in bed, so I know it’s not the act of getting up that sets it off). I know from long experience that 2 units of insulin will sort it out, and that 2 units if I'm going to have something like scrambled eggs for breakfast will sort it (only then I need a unit round about 11am to mop up the glucose my body has converted from the protein in the eggs). 2 units on top of what I need for anything like overnight oats or muesli, and wait half an hour before eating, will sort out the morning on a carby breakfast.
That’s what I need personally, and what I worked out by trial and error (or trial and improvement as my kids were taught at school). You may need something different, but experimenting til you get the 'best fit' is the answer.
 
Ok thanks all, have some ideas to try 😉
 
Get slightly rise in bg from 3am onwards up to waking, but pump takes care of that.

Find if don't eat within hour of waking then get big liver dump, so always make point of having breakfast which is no hardship really as good breakfast sets you up for morning ahead.
 
Hello, I get the foot to the floor thing which is the equivalent for me of consuming a digestive biscuit. I correct for that. I.cant do breakfast first thing. It also only happens on a work day.
 
maybe i get fotf AND liver dump. lol!
 
nonethewiser said:
Get slightly rise in bg from 3am onwards up to waking, but pump takes care of that.

Find if don't eat within hour of waking then get big liver dump, so always make point of having breakfast which is no hardship really as good breakfast sets you up for morning ahead.
Click to expand...
What is yr breakfast & how many carbs usually?
 
void said:
What is yr breakfast & how many carbs usually?
Click to expand...

Creature of habit im afraid but do enjoy my breakfast so have no intentions of changing it, every morning have porridge with big dollop of greek yogurt & few berries thrown in.

Carb total is 60g.
 
nonethewiser said:
Creature of habit im afraid but do enjoy my breakfast so have no intentions of changing it, every morning have porridge with big dollop of greek yogurt & few berries thrown in.

Carb total is 60g.
Click to expand...
if it works for you then why not 😉
 
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