Sudden Improvement of BG Levels and Retinopathy

[Wolder]

Hello,

I was hospitalised on 22nd December 2021 and have since been treated as a T1D. Upon hospitalisation, my BG levels were very high - approximately 17.0 mmol/L. I was discharged five days later, and between then and Thursday last week my average daily BG levels varied between 6.3 to 9.0 mmol/L. However, since Friday last week my average daily BG levels have been consistently low (or low by my standards):

Friday: 6.3 mmol/L

Saturday: 5.4 mmol/L

Sunday: 6.9 mmol/L

Monday: 4.7 mmol/L

Tuesday: 5.3 mmol/L

In the past couple of days I've experienced 'floaters' in my vision, and occasionally bright 'stars' too. Prior to this week, I have never experienced either. I am following the advice of my DSN in regards to my insulin dosage, and assumed that a quick return to more 'normal' BG levels could only be a good thing, until I researched these symptoms and discovered that sudden improvements of BG levels can trigger rapid progression of diabetic retinopathy. Has anybody experienced anything similar? Were you able to alleviate the symptoms at all? I will raise these issues with my DSN tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[Inka]

I believe @Kaylz had something like this @Wolder Don’t panic, it isn’t a given that you’ve caused any damage.

One thing to ask: do you test your blood sugar when you get the bright stars? Bright ‘blobs’ in your vision, like coming indoors from the sun, can be a hypo sign.

 

[Wolder]

I believe @Kaylz had something like this @Wolder Don’t panic, it isn’t a given that you’ve caused any damage.

One thing to ask: do you test your blood sugar when you get the bright stars? Bright ‘blobs’ in your vision, like coming indoors from the sun, can be a hypo sign.

Thanks @Inka . You've described it perfectly, the bright stars in my vision are quite similar to the phenomenon you experience when coming indoors from the Sun. Have only experienced these bright stars a few times over the past few days and only tested myself once while experiencing them - BG Levels were 4.1 mmol/L at the time. Thanks again.

 

[Inka]

Thanks @Inka . You've described it perfectly, the bright stars in my vision are quite similar to the phenomenon you experience when coming indoors from the Sun. Have only experienced these bright stars a few times over the past few days and only tested myself once while experiencing them - BG Levels were 4.1 mmol/L at the time. Thanks again.

Ok, well 4.1 is slightly above hypo level but remember that the meters have a margin of error so you might have actually been in the 3s. You could try having a glucose tablet maybe and see if that helps. For me, the bright blobs disappear quickly if I have glucose.

It might be that your insulin needs reducing slightly. Often, once we start insulin, it gives our own failing beta cells a rest and they can perk up temporarily. My insulin was reduced early on due to this.

 

[Kaylz]

I saw this post just after 6AM but not long logged in and had a feeling I'd end up tagged lol

Yes dropping too quickly can cause problems, my first was less than a month into my diagnosis but it was diabetic macular oedema that was my first issue, I was diagnosed with proliferative retinopathy in 2018 just shy of 2 years into my diagnosis despite good control but they believe it was the sudden drop at the beginning that caused me to develop it so early, I didn't have either of the symptoms you are describing though and tend to agree that the flashes would be more likely to be a hypo symptom as that is one of mines xx

 

[Inka]

Sorry for the early tag @Kaylz If I could have given it a time delay I would have

 

[Kaylz]

Sorry for the early tag @Kaylz If I could have given it a time delay I would have

I would've replied at the back of 6 if I'd been logged in at the time but at that time I'm checking the bus app for mum for getting to her work lol xx

 

[Leadinglights]

The 'floaters' can happen to anyone and are alarming at the time, I thought I had spiders coming down my face and freaked out. Either they disappear on their own or the brain adapts to ignore them.
The 'bright lights' could be the visual effect some people get with migraine but unlikely if you don't normally get them.

 

[trophywench]

Yes indeed, one of my hypo warnings for 50 years too! - tends to happen 'more violently' when it's a very quick drop rather than when it proceeds downwards slowly.

Because Type 1 has only recently manifested this means your body is simply not at all used to having a BG as low as the low 4s, so sends you warning signals before it's got mega low - another sign I got for quite a few years was feeling as if sweat had broken out on my upper lip - most peculiar! but that feeling gradually stopped happening.

It is actually good that you get symptoms at slightly over 4 and you want to try and keep that effect (I mean the warnings slightly higher, not to actual symptoms if you see what I mean!) cos it gives you a bit more time to treat the low, before it actually debilitates you so you can't help yourself - so DO have some carb when it happens, just not masses. If you have dextrose, just one tablet, or one jelly baby or one fruit pastille, or 50ml (approx 2 gulps!) of full sugar coca cola or other normal pop.

 

[Docb]

Hi @Wolder. I have flashes and floaters as well! When they first appeared I called into my optician (a proper one, not a chain) who took me straight into her consulting room and gave my eyes a right good looking at. She could not see anything at all amiss (thank goodness) and gave me a leaflet on the subject. The leaflet is long since gone, but my recollection is that flashes and floaters are quite common (at least common enough to have a glossy leaflet printed) and if it were anything more than just one of those things, then a decent optician would spot it.

So, if you use an optician regularly then maybe calling in to get a check might be a way of setting your mind at rest. You might even get a leaflet!

 

[richardmillar11]

Hello,

I was hospitalised on 22nd December 2021 and have since been treated as a T1D. Upon hospitalisation, my BG levels were very high - approximately 17.0 mmol/L. I was discharged five days later, and between then and Thursday last week my average daily BG levels varied between 6.3 to 9.0 mmol/L. However, since Friday last week my average daily BG levels have been consistently low (or low by my standards):

Friday: 6.3 mmol/L

Saturday: 5.4 mmol/L

Sunday: 6.9 mmol/L

Monday: 4.7 mmol/L

Tuesday: 5.3 mmol/L

In the past couple of days I've experienced 'floaters' in my vision, and occasionally bright 'stars' too. Prior to this week, I have never experienced either. I am following the advice of my DSN in regards to my insulin dosage, and assumed that a quick return to more 'normal' BG levels could only be a good thing, until I researched these symptoms and discovered that sudden improvements of BG levels can trigger rapid progression of diabetic retinopathy. Has anybody experienced anything similar? Were you able to alleviate the symptoms at all? I will raise these issues with my DSN tomorrow. Thanks.

Hi

We are in the same boat. I was diagnosed on 17th December, 2021 by the GP as type 1 although having attended the hospital since my diagnosis is yet to be decided. Currently experiencing the same vision problem only mine are just like little black speckles I wouldn't say they are floaters. I also had a sudden drop in bs levels and a few members on here have told me that this can be the reason. I have tested when I feel like this and the readings are never too high or too low. Also had an eye screening before Christmas and was told everything was normal and there was no damage. So it looks like this will settle down for you in time without having to worry too much.

Well done with your bs readings. You seem to have a really good grip on things. It can be a lot to take in but being on here can really help chatting to others who have more knowledge.

R

 

[Wolder]

I saw this post just after 6AM but not long logged in and had a feeling I'd end up tagged lol

Yes dropping too quickly can cause problems, my first was less than a month into my diagnosis but it was diabetic macular oedema that was my first issue, I was diagnosed with proliferative retinopathy in 2018 just shy of 2 years into my diagnosis despite good control but they believe it was the sudden drop at the beginning that caused me to develop it so early, I didn't have either of the symptoms you are describing though and tend to agree that the flashes would be more likely to be a hypo symptom as that is one of mines xx

Hi @Kaylz

Thanks for sharing your experience. If you don't mind me asking, what symptoms did you experience and were you able to receive effective treatment for diabetic macular oedema and proliferative retinopathy? How is your eyesight now?

My BG levels are running a bit higher today (8.3 mmol/L before breakfast, 8.2 mmol/L less than five minutes ago). Still experiencing floaters, but no bright spots today so far.

 

[Kaylz]

Hi @Kaylz

Thanks for sharing your experience. If you don't mind me asking, what symptoms did you experience and were you able to receive effective treatment for diabetic macular oedema and proliferative retinopathy? How is your eyesight now?

My BG levels are running a bit higher today (8.3 mmol/L before breakfast, 8.2 mmol/L less than five minutes ago). Still experiencing floaters, but no bright spots today so far.

I had no symptoms with the proliferative retinopathy but the oedema caused dullness in my vision, it's not easy to describe but say like your looking at a digital clock with the numbers being red, the red didn't stand out as it should and was just very dull, I'm sorry that was the most noticeable and I can't actually remember if there were any others as it was over 5 years ago now, I received injections for it and did need a few top ups over the years but it was the best response to the treatment the consultant had seen, I had lasering for my proliferative retinopathy

The retinopathy didn't really effect my vision that I noticed but my sight is fine xx

 

[Wolder]

Hi @Wolder. I have flashes and floaters as well! When they first appeared I called into my optician (a proper one, not a chain) who took me straight into her consulting room and gave my eyes a right good looking at. She could not see anything at all amiss (thank goodness) and gave me a leaflet on the subject. The leaflet is long since gone, but my recollection is that flashes and floaters are quite common (at least common enough to have a glossy leaflet printed) and if it were anything more than just one of those things, then a decent optician would spot it.

So, if you use an optician regularly then maybe calling in to get a check might be a way of setting your mind at rest. You might even get a leaflet!

Thanks @Docb

Have just booked an appointment with a local optician for an eye check and an OCT scan. Have also finally arranged for my GP to organise an eye screening session. There has been some toing and froint between the GP surgery and hospital over this - the GP told me the hospital were responsible for organising this, and the hospital told me the GP was responsible for this. Just glad things are now moving.

 

[Wolder]

Hi

We are in the same boat. I was diagnosed on 17th December, 2021 by the GP as type 1 although having attended the hospital since my diagnosis is yet to be decided. Currently experiencing the same vision problem only mine are just like little black speckles I wouldn't say they are floaters. I also had a sudden drop in bs levels and a few members on here have told me that this can be the reason. I have tested when I feel like this and the readings are never too high or too low. Also had an eye screening before Christmas and was told everything was normal and there was no damage. So it looks like this will settle down for you in time without having to worry too much.

Well done with your bs readings. You seem to have a really good grip on things. It can be a lot to take in but being on here can really help chatting to others who have more knowledge.

R

Hi @richardmillar11

We are in the same boat, nice to have the company. Hope they tell me everything looks normal, and that your black speckles clear up soon.

When I was hospitalised a nurse told me that majority of her patients who manage their BG levels very well follow low carbohydrate diets, and suggested that I do some research on Dr Bernstein and his 'solution' for T1D. I bought his book, and although I'm only halfway through it, I began to implement some of his recommendations just over a fortnight ago. I am now consuming between 30 to 35g of carbohydrates a day and eating high amounts of protein (am eating fish almost every day). Within a few days I noticed improvements to my BG levels.

 

[Wolder]

I had no symptoms with the proliferative retinopathy but the oedema caused dullness in my vision, it's not easy to describe but say like your looking at a digital clock with the numbers being red, the red didn't stand out as it should and was just very dull, I'm sorry that was the most noticeable and I can't actually remember if there were any others as it was over 5 years ago now, I received injections for it and did need a few top ups over the years but it was the best response to the treatment the consultant had seen, I had lasering for my proliferative retinopathy

The retinopathy didn't really effect my vision that I noticed but my sight is fine xx

@Kaylz

I'm so, so glad to hear that your sight is fine. Hope you have a lovely day.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

I had a floater at one stage.
I went to my opticians, who sent me with a referral back to my doctor, who sent me to the consultant ophthalmologist at the local hospital the next day.
After a prolonged examination, it turned out it was a floater, and natural with age apparently!
He said it would eventually fall to the bottom of my eye, out of the way.
It was there for quite a while, but I got used to it, and now as you mention it I realise it has gone.
I did try violently shaking my head up and down just, and I think I saw flashes of it still.

 

[richardmillar11]

Hi @richardmillar11

We are in the same boat, nice to have the company. Hope they tell me everything looks normal, and that your black speckles clear up soon.

When I was hospitalised a nurse told me that majority of her patients who manage their BG levels very well follow low carbohydrate diets, and suggested that I do some research on Dr Bernstein and his 'solution' for T1D. I bought his book, and although I'm only halfway through it, I began to implement some of his recommendations just over a fortnight ago. I am now consuming between 30 to 35g of carbohydrates a day and eating high amounts of protein (am eating fish almost every day). Within a few days I noticed improvements to my BG levels.

Yes I am trying to stick to low cab also. Started on 19th October, 2021 and have to say as past few weeks its getting harder I just want to eat bread and potatoes and lots of them lol but yes I do find that I can keep the numbers low if I give the spuds and root veg and miss. Like you I eat mostly fish and chicken and have started one day a week to have red meat or on Saturday night I allowed myself a piece of gammon and a couple of eggs and some gluten free bread. I was surprised and my sugars didn't spike that much.

Good to be in touch. Looking forward to see how our journeys pan out!!!

 

[sugary123]

@Kaylz
Hi @Kaylz can I ask a few questions about your experience with PDR?? How long have you had it and did you have PRP laser? Did you retain both peripheral and central vision .

And is your PDR in one eye or both?
Also have you had Injevtions with the laser treatment?
Sorry for the 100 questions I' had wiggly lines and floater 3 months ago last howver all standard retinopathy svreening test didnt show anything much . After florescin angiography confirmed few weeks back PDR both eyes need PRP extensively both eyes
However all the drs are a little unsure as all have said my presentation is not typical for diabetes as can't see it im usual images only om the florescin pics .. I've today had 2 bleeds in one eye vision is dull .. blurry only when trying to read
Laser booked I'm thus week
Any experiences or advice very appreciated
I'm petrified

 

[Kaylz]

@Kaylz
Hi @Kaylz can I ask a few questions about your experience with PDR?? How long have you had it and did you have PRP laser? Did you retain both peripheral and central vision .

And is your PDR in one eye or both?
Also have you had Injevtions with the laser treatment?
Sorry for the 100 questions I' had wiggly lines and floater 3 months ago last howver all standard retinopathy svreening test didnt show anything much . After florescin angiography confirmed few weeks back PDR both eyes need PRP extensively both eyes
However all the drs are a little unsure as all have said my presentation is not typical for diabetes as can't see it im usual images only om the florescin pics .. I've today had 2 bleeds in one eye vision is dull .. blurry only when trying to read
Laser booked I'm thus week
Any experiences or advice very appreciated
I'm petrified

I was diagnosed with it in 2018 less than 2 years after being diagnosed with Type 1

I have only had 1 session of lasering and both eyes were done at the same time, I was being seen every 3 months due to having had eyelea injections for macular oedema so mines wasn't long in being discovered

My vision is fine now but it wasn't at a point to have affected my vision, only the macular oedema took a toll on that which was much better after the first injections

Sorry I haven't been much help xxxx