Struggling…

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ladsmum50

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Hi. Really hoping for some good advice, and not judgement.
I was diagnosed as T2 diabetic about 10 years ago. And I’m still struggling to get it under control.
I know what I’m supposed to do, and what to eat, so that isn’t the problem.
Over the years I have tried several times to be good, eat well and take my meds. But then I just give up, stop taking my meds and eat rubbish. I know this is totally wrong, but I find I choose bad foods over taking meds (I get bad side effects when I do both!)
I have seen many different doctors who can’t seem to decide what to do with me, other than just trying different meds and telling me to try harder.
I don’t know if my problem is a psychological one, or due to my binge eating disorder (diagnosed a few years ago).
I just want to eat all the time, constantly think about food, and shopping for sweets and cakes etc.
Then I’ll have a few weeks of taking meds, eating sensibly and feeling great, sleeping better…only to sabotage myself by starting the binge eating cycle again and not taking my meds!!
My blood sugars are always in the 20’s, but I seem to function ok.
I’m a 50 year old single mum, with 3 sons and a granddaughter.
I want so desperately to get this under control for all of them, before I make myself really poorly.
I haven’t had my Hba1c for about 6 months as it was 110 last time and I know it will probably be the same, if not higher.
So I’m now reaching out to you all to see if anyone else is like me, or if anyone has any idea how I can deal with this.
Thanks xx
 
I’m not sure this is relevant, particularly if you have a binge eating disorder, which I’d hope, as it’s been diagnosed, you are getting some help with, such as counselling. Anyway, if you’re in your 50s are you perimenopausal, or perhaps menopausal? My wife is/was and recently started HRT and it’s made a positive difference in many ways, one being a reduction in appetite. Might be something worth discussing with your GP?
 
@ladsmum50 Have you looked for help from BEAT? Have you sought other help for your binge-eating, eg hypnosis, counselling, etc?

High blood sugars can make things worse because they can cause abnormal hunger and weakness and a feeling that you ‘need’ to eat. They can also make you crave sweet things. If you could reduce your sugars, that might help the binging too, or at least make it more controllable.

What meds are you currently on? Do you know what triggers you to stop eating well and taking your medication?
 
I’m not sure this is relevant, particularly if you have a binge eating disorder, which I’d hope, as it’s been diagnosed, you are getting some help with, such as counselling. Anyway, if you’re in your 50s are you perimenopausal, or perhaps menopausal? My wife is/was and recently started HRT and it’s made a positive difference in many ways, one being a reduction in appetite. Might be something worth discussing with your GP?
Thank you.
I did talk to someone when I was initially diagnosed with the disorder, but it was during lockdown so was only an online consultation. Only had a couple of sessions, which didn’t help at all. I don’t think that any of the doctors I speak to, know what to suggest anymore. I feel like they’ve given up on me.
And I don’t think it’s anything to do with menopause, as I’ve eaten like this most of my life…it’s not a new thing.
I spoke to my diabetes nurse and she said she’d never known anyone to just stop taking my medication randomly like I do. I know it’s wrong, but I can’t seem to get out of this cycle.
I’ve asked about going on to insulin, but they don’t want to do that. They just keep changing the tablets they give me…x
 
@ladsmum50 Have you looked for help from BEAT? Have you sought other help for your binge-eating, eg hypnosis, counselling, etc?

High blood sugars can make things worse because they can cause abnormal hunger and weakness and a feeling that you ‘need’ to eat. They can also make you crave sweet things. If you could reduce your sugars, that might help the binging too, or at least make it more controllable.

What meds are you currently on? Do you know what triggers you to stop eating well and taking your medication?
I’ve never heard of BEAT…I’ll look them up, thank you.
I’m currently supposed to be taking metformin and linagliptin. But have tried several different ones alongside the metformin.
I really wish I knew what the trigger was that stops me taking my meds. All I know is that I just get into the binging phase and I know if I take my meds aswell then the side effects aren’t good.
I have to find a way round this, I can’t keep doing it.
And that’s why I’ve decided to reach out and ask for advice…see if this is just something I do, or if anyone else is going through this.
Thanks xx
 
Hello @ladsmum50 and welcome to the forum.
It's just a suggestion so no idea if it will help at all but when you binge eat is it certain foods or anything and everything under the sun?
I wondered if stocking up on cheese, meat and nuts would help as this would be low impact on your blood sugars and make you feel full.
Another option if you can do so could you make some low carb cakes, biscuits and or have sugar free jelly at the ready so you have something to go too?
 
Hello @ladsmum50 and welcome to the forum.
It's just a suggestion so no idea if it will help at all but when you binge eat is it certain foods or anything and everything under the sun?
I wondered if stocking up on cheese, meat and nuts would help as this would be low impact on your blood sugars and make you feel full.
Another option if you can do so could you make some low carb cakes, biscuits and or have sugar free jelly at the ready so you have something to go too?
Hi Sue
Thanks for your message. The binging is usually sweet foods, chocolate and cakes, but can also be crisps, toast etc. Part of it is the planning and shopping, and doing it all in secret. It’s a compulsion.. I’ve tried doing online shopping, but if anything that is worse as no-one can see what I buy. It scares me how out of control I get sometimes, the need to buy so much bad food just completely takes over. It’s totally irrational.
I do buy normal shopping aswell, and I do try making low carb, healthier treats. I love meat, veg, salad, nuts, cheese, sugar free jelly etc and when I’m being good then I enjoy all that. But after a few weeks, the compulsion takes over and I’m back to square one. It’s so frustrating..
 
I’ve never heard of BEAT…I’ll look them up, thank you.
I’m currently supposed to be taking metformin and linagliptin. But have tried several different ones alongside the metformin.
I really wish I knew what the trigger was that stops me taking my meds. All I know is that I just get into the binging phase and I know if I take my meds aswell then the side effects aren’t good.
I have to find a way round this, I can’t keep doing it.
And that’s why I’ve decided to reach out and ask for advice…see if this is just something I do, or if anyone else is going through this.
Thanks xx

They’re a major eating disorder charity. I linked to an info page above 🙂 They should have advice.
Although counselling might sound a bit vague and general, it can help you home in on things that you might not have considered. You’d have to pay possibly, but even a few sessions might help.

I had bulimia and one of the triggers for me was stress. It didn’t have to be major stress. It was stress bubbling underneath and that was one way to deal with it. Obviously not a good way, but once I understood more why I was doing it, it was easier to stop. Also, if you reduce your food intake after or before a binge, that can just make things worse and make you physically want to binge more. Regular, sensible eating helps stop the swings that contribute to binging. Those swings also mess with your head a bit. I read that and didn’t really believe it, but once I got a grip on my eating, I felt mentally much better and more level.
 
They’re a major eating disorder charity. I linked to an info page above 🙂 They should have advice.
Although counselling might sound a bit vague and general, it can help you home in on things that you might not have considered. You’d have to pay possibly, but even a few sessions might help.

I had bulimia and one of the triggers for me was stress. It didn’t have to be major stress. It was stress bubbling underneath and that was one way to deal with it. Obviously not a good way, but once I understood more why I was doing it, it was easier to stop. Also, if you reduce your food intake after or before a binge, that can just make things worse and make you physically want to binge more. Regular, sensible eating helps stop the swings that contribute to binging. Those swings also mess with your head a bit. I read that and didn’t really believe it, but once I got a grip on my eating, I felt mentally much better and more level.
That’s so good that you’ve got your eating under control.
I wish I knew what triggered mine, but this has been a lifelong battle and I have no idea how to change it.
I think I definitely do need to try and talk to someone again though. But I just feel that nothing has helped so far when I have tried opening up and talking to someone. I’m not sure if I can be helped…but I have to try. Thank you xx
 
I hope BEAT can help you and maybe support you to find counselling in your area that will work for you.

I have never been formally diagnosed, but I definitely had Compulsive Eating Disorder when I was a young adult, and there is family history of anorexia as well. It's a significant reason why I have chosen to slow down on weight less and try to move towards stabilisation now that I'm a clothes size that I'm happy with, although I weigh more than last time I was this size and am still overweight. I'm worried that if I keep going to try to get my BMI under 25 then I'm going to increase my risk of developing an eating disorder again.

Which doesn't really directly help you because I have no further "advice" as I can't now remember how exactly I managed to get out from that cycle of binge eating - I just wanted to reach out and say that I get the struggle at least somewhat and hope you can find your solution
 
I hope BEAT can help you and maybe support you to find counselling in your area that will work for you.

I have never been formally diagnosed, but I definitely had Compulsive Eating Disorder when I was a young adult, and there is family history of anorexia as well. It's a significant reason why I have chosen to slow down on weight less and try to move towards stabilisation now that I'm a clothes size that I'm happy with, although I weigh more than last time I was this size and am still overweight. I'm worried that if I keep going to try to get my BMI under 25 then I'm going to increase my risk of developing an eating disorder again.

Which doesn't really directly help you because I have no further "advice" as I can't now remember how exactly I managed to get out from that cycle of binge eating - I just wanted to reach out and say that I get the struggle at least somewhat and hope you can find your solution
Thank you.
It’s so good that you have managed to get to a place where you are happier and can recognise that you don’t want to push yourself any further. It is encouraging to read that this can be overcome, and I appreciate you sharing your story. Xx
 
Hi, not sure if this is any help, but here goes:

Would it help to try and disentangle how much of your bingeing is caused by physical drivers, and how much by emotional/psychological ones?

(1) I think one of the posts above mentioned that eating a lot of carbs, especially hiGI ones (sugary cakes etc!) can itself fuel a metabolic 'drive' to consume yet more, very frequently. Such a diet then replaces 'real' hunger cues (ie, a metabolic need for more fuel, caused by exertion) with 'pathological' ones that have nothing to do with 'need' at all. From what (very little!) I understand about why we have an appetite for food at all, it seems to involve at least two hormones, leptin and grellin. Grellin is the 'I'm hungry!' hormone, and leptin is the 'I'm full up now!' hormone. High carb, high calorie, diets put these two hormones out of balance, and can lead to constant grellin signals telling you 'I'm hungry - eat more! Eat more!'. Conversely, leptin is 'crushed' so we never get to feel full.

(The way to remember which hormone is which is to remember that GRellin is our GReedy hormone!!!)

So the above situation, though 'pathological' (ie, something has 'gone wrong' with our metabolic signalling etc), is nevertheless a physical (bodily) driver for overeating on carbs.

(In passing, there is, I believe, a rare health condition, and I've no idea what its name is, where the body simply CANNOT ever 'feel full' and people are born with it, and seek fool literally all the time.) (Others here may know the name of the condition?)


(2) However, as well know (sadly!), we eat for more reasons than that food is our body's metabolic fuel. We eat for so many emotional and psychological reasons, and therefore if you, as a first step, understand what those emotional/psychological drivers are, then that is a necessary first step to seeking to change them in some way. We eat for comfort, for cheering us up, from boredom, from self-hatred, from unhappiness, from loneliness, from anger with the world and our lives, from tiredness, from habit, etc etc etc. Do you have any idea what your E/P drivers might be?


(3) Of course, both (1) and (2) may well be involved, with them reinforcing each other in a bad way, sadly.


Some general thoughts:

- Do you have any idea what triggers your 'flip' into 'greed' mode? You say you are not constantly in 'binge' mode and can be 'good' for periods of time. So is there any pattern going on about what triggers you changing into binge mode?

- How long does each mode last, do you think? Is it fairly constant? eg, you can be 'good' for say three weeks, then 'lapse' into bingeing again, which lasts another three weeks (or whatever). Or can the amount of time you spend in each mode vary?

- Does it vary around the day? Are there 'danger hours' for you? (eg, a friend of mine has dinner with her husband at around 7, then by 10 she is ready to hit the cake and chocolate, that's her 'danger hour' for her)

- Conversely, what is going on when you manage to pull back from binge mode? What triggers you going back into 'good' mode?


I'm only throwing these out as possible factors etc etc. It's such a pernicious situation, our relationship with foods that are bad for us (in excess at least).

May I make one more observation. A friend of mine (not the late night cake scoffer!) went on one of the commercial weight loss programmes to help her give structure to her efforts, and part of the programme was a weekly 'tutorial' so to speak. She said one that impressed her a lot was to show the relationship between 'bad eating' and the psychology of 'child/parent/adult' (sorry, I've forgotten what the proper name for that is!)

She said they were told that we oscillate between modes. In 'parent' mode, where we are sternly in charge of our eating, and police it fiercely - we say 'No, you cannot have a slice of cake! Eat a raw carrot instead, bad, bad person that you are for wanting cake!'

Then our inner rebellious 'child' takes over, and goes all 'defiant'. 'I SHALL eat cake if I want! I shall eat it and eat it and eat it! And have chocolate afterwards SO THERE!!!!'. The 'child' is angry and self-justifying, yet knows how 'naughty' they are being. But they feel 'out of control' and crucially 'out of responsibility' ('I shall if I want!')

Neither mode is healthy. Instead, only by becoming an 'adult' - having not so much 'control' as 'managemnt' and 'acceptance'. We then can take 'rational' decisions about whether we genuinely 'need' food (as fuel), but also can say in a responsible way 'OK, you can have a small slice of cake, that's fine, but not right now, later, in an hour say.' Crucially, the 'adult' knows that just because you have a small slice of cake, does NOT mean you have now 'lapsed' into child-mode and therefore 'are allowed' (!!!) to eat the WHOLE cake (etc etc).

The above parent/child/adult might resonate with your situation, it might not - again, I just throw it out there in case it does!
 
A couple of other thoughts. When you are in binge mode do you only eat highGI carbs? Or do you eat 'normally' AS WELL?

ie, when you are bingeing, do you make lunch and dinner for yourself with protein and vegetables (as well as say, pasta or rice/potatoes etc)?

Or do you ONLY eat the junky high-GI carbs?

If the latter, how about trying to eat 'sensibly' AS WELL as 'badly'.

You might think, 'Why? It's bad enough stuffing my face with all these carb-calories, let alone if I add to them with meat etc!'

But my reason for suggesting it is that not only will it give your body something healthy to eat (compared to sugary cake etc) which it probably needs anyway, but, from the point of view of ultimately managing down the bingeing, the great thing about eating meat and veg is that they do serve to 'fill you up'. By eating more meat and veg AS WELL as your highGI carb binge food, you 'may' find that you are beginning to rebalance the grellin/leptin drivers, and you may find that a higher protein/veg intake is starting to allow you to 'feel full' with less food ('good' and 'bad' alike) going inside you.

IF that is so, then simply from an E/P perspective on why you binge, it could be that ADDING more meat and protein, and NOT 'giving up' on highGI carbs already has the beneficial effect of starting the long, slow journey towards 'de-addiction' of high GI carbs. Adopting a diet that does not involve 'sacrifice' (ie, giving up carbs) may make it easier to stick with it.

(The hope, of course, is that, over time, having a high-protein/veg AND a high-carb diet will result in reducing your own perceived 'need' for carbs, as protein does have a 'sating' quality to it, and fibrous veg of course bulk in your tum, thereby 'filling you up' etc etc.)
 
Hi, not sure if this is any help, but here goes:

Would it help to try and disentangle how much of your bingeing is caused by physical drivers, and how much by emotional/psychological ones?

(1) I think one of the posts above mentioned that eating a lot of carbs, especially hiGI ones (sugary cakes etc!) can itself fuel a metabolic 'drive' to consume yet more, very frequently. Such a diet then replaces 'real' hunger cues (ie, a metabolic need for more fuel, caused by exertion) with 'pathological' ones that have nothing to do with 'need' at all. From what (very little!) I understand about why we have an appetite for food at all, it seems to involve at least two hormones, leptin and grellin. Grellin is the 'I'm hungry!' hormone, and leptin is the 'I'm full up now!' hormone. High carb, high calorie, diets put these two hormones out of balance, and can lead to constant grellin signals telling you 'I'm hungry - eat more! Eat more!'. Conversely, leptin is 'crushed' so we never get to feel full.

(The way to remember which hormone is which is to remember that GRellin is our GReedy hormone!!!)

So the above situation, though 'pathological' (ie, something has 'gone wrong' with our metabolic signalling etc), is nevertheless a physical (bodily) driver for overeating on carbs.

(In passing, there is, I believe, a rare health condition, and I've no idea what its name is, where the body simply CANNOT ever 'feel full' and people are born with it, and seek fool literally all the time.) (Others here may know the name of the condition?)


(2) However, as well know (sadly!), we eat for more reasons than that food is our body's metabolic fuel. We eat for so many emotional and psychological reasons, and therefore if you, as a first step, understand what those emotional/psychological drivers are, then that is a necessary first step to seeking to change them in some way. We eat for comfort, for cheering us up, from boredom, from self-hatred, from unhappiness, from loneliness, from anger with the world and our lives, from tiredness, from habit, etc etc etc. Do you have any idea what your E/P drivers might be?


(3) Of course, both (1) and (2) may well be involved, with them reinforcing each other in a bad way, sadly.


Some general thoughts:

- Do you have any idea what triggers your 'flip' into 'greed' mode? You say you are not constantly in 'binge' mode and can be 'good' for periods of time. So is there any pattern going on about what triggers you changing into binge mode?

- How long does each mode last, do you think? Is it fairly constant? eg, you can be 'good' for say three weeks, then 'lapse' into bingeing again, which lasts another three weeks (or whatever). Or can the amount of time you spend in each mode vary?

- Does it vary around the day? Are there 'danger hours' for you? (eg, a friend of mine has dinner with her husband at around 7, then by 10 she is ready to hit the cake and chocolate, that's her 'danger hour' for her)

- Conversely, what is going on when you manage to pull back from binge mode? What triggers you going back into 'good' mode?


I'm only throwing these out as possible factors etc etc. It's such a pernicious situation, our relationship with foods that are bad for us (in excess at least).

May I make one more observation. A friend of mine (not the late night cake scoffer!) went on one of the commercial weight loss programmes to help her give structure to her efforts, and part of the programme was a weekly 'tutorial' so to speak. She said one that impressed her a lot was to show the relationship between 'bad eating' and the psychology of 'child/parent/adult' (sorry, I've forgotten what the proper name for that is!)

She said they were told that we oscillate between modes. In 'parent' mode, where we are sternly in charge of our eating, and police it fiercely - we say 'No, you cannot have a slice of cake! Eat a raw carrot instead, bad, bad person that you are for wanting cake!'

Then our inner rebellious 'child' takes over, and goes all 'defiant'. 'I SHALL eat cake if I want! I shall eat it and eat it and eat it! And have chocolate afterwards SO THERE!!!!'. The 'child' is angry and self-justifying, yet knows how 'naughty' they are being. But they feel 'out of control' and crucially 'out of responsibility' ('I shall if I want!')

Neither mode is healthy. Instead, only by becoming an 'adult' - having not so much 'control' as 'managemnt' and 'acceptance'. We then can take 'rational' decisions about whether we genuinely 'need' food (as fuel), but also can say in a responsible way 'OK, you can have a small slice of cake, that's fine, but not right now, later, in an hour say.' Crucially, the 'adult' knows that just because you have a small slice of cake, does NOT mean you have now 'lapsed' into child-mode and therefore 'are allowed' (!!!) to eat the WHOLE cake (etc etc).

The above parent/child/adult might resonate with your situation, it might not - again, I just throw it out there in case it does!
Wow..thank you for all that. A lot to read and take in, but some of it definitely made me think. Especially the parent/adult/child stuff. I think when I’m being good that I’m probably too strict with myself, and I can’t ever maintain that strictness, and feel that I then rebel and give in to all my cravings and become like a child!! I definitely need to work out how to get into adult mode and find a happy medium.
I really wish I knew what my trigger is, why I seem to just keep reverting to the binging. There doesn’t seem to be any reason. And no particular time frame. It can be a few weeks or a few days. It’s just so frustrating…I have no willpower. This thing (whatever it is) just takes over and tells me to go and buy all the things I know I shouldn’t.
This has been going on for so many years now, I just don’t know how to break the cycle. I don’t know what sort of help I need. I’ve lost faith in doctors. And I don’t know how to start looking for help elsewhere.
I’ve looked at the BEAT website and there doesn’t seem to be any help local to me.
But I’m not giving up xx
 
A couple of other thoughts. When you are in binge mode do you only eat highGI carbs? Or do you eat 'normally' AS WELL?

ie, when you are bingeing, do you make lunch and dinner for yourself with protein and vegetables (as well as say, pasta or rice/potatoes etc)?

Or do you ONLY eat the junky high-GI carbs?

If the latter, how about trying to eat 'sensibly' AS WELL as 'badly'.

You might think, 'Why? It's bad enough stuffing my face with all these carb-calories, let alone if I add to them with meat etc!'

But my reason for suggesting it is that not only will it give your body something healthy to eat (compared to sugary cake etc) which it probably needs anyway, but, from the point of view of ultimately managing down the bingeing, the great thing about eating meat and veg is that they do serve to 'fill you up'. By eating more meat and veg AS WELL as your highGI carb binge food, you 'may' find that you are beginning to rebalance the grellin/leptin drivers, and you may find that a higher protein/veg intake is starting to allow you to 'feel full' with less food ('good' and 'bad' alike) going inside you.

IF that is so, then simply from an E/P perspective on why you binge, it could be that ADDING more meat and protein, and NOT 'giving up' on highGI carbs already has the beneficial effect of starting the long, slow journey towards 'de-addiction' of high GI carbs. Adopting a diet that does not involve 'sacrifice' (ie, giving up carbs) may make it easier to stick with it.

(The hope, of course, is that, over time, having a high-protein/veg AND a high-carb diet will result in reducing your own perceived 'need' for carbs, as protein does have a 'sating' quality to it, and fibrous veg of course bulk in your tum, thereby 'filling you up' etc etc.)
I do have normal meals, I enjoy meat, veg and salads etc. but I do also have pasta and rice or potatoes sometimes. I don’t think that meals are my problem.
It’s the secret binging in between, it’s buying the chocolate, cakes and sweets and hiding them in my wardrobe, waiting for the opportunity to binge when my kids aren’t around. The hiding food has been a thing all my life. This, I feel, is the childlike part of whatever I am going through.
But it’s also the medication issue. This is a big problem. I just choose to stop taking anything because I can’t deal with the side effects.
I even feel stupid admitting that…
I have no idea what to do. But that’s why I have come on here to see if anyone else has similar issues, or has overcome anything like this.
Thank you for all your information and advice though. I do appreciate it xx
 
I'm sorry you are experiencing binge eating disorder - it is totally horrible and has a terrible impact on your life.
BEAT have a leaflet/section on talking to your GP. A referral to the Eating Disorders Service could help - though I expect there is a significant wating list. Some GPs do not understand binge eating disorder and fail to recognise it as a serious mental health condition. Addressing the underlying psychological drivers and understanding your triggers and ways to manage them is important, but so hard. Your blood sugars will then stabilize. The Eating Disorders Team help you to understand all this, plus the importance of regular meals and snacks. When you start to eat regularly and have binges, (so physical hunger is not the cause) then they help you understand the emotions/thoughts etc;
It is something I have struggled with, but found treatment helpful.
Good luck to you.
 
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I'm sorry you are experiencing binge eating disorder - it is totally horrible and has a terrible impact on your life.
BEAT have a leaflet/section on talking to your GP. A referral to the Eating Disorders Service could help - though I expect there is a significant wating list. Some GPs do not understand binge eating disorder and fail to recognise it as a serious mental health condition. Addressing the underlying psychological drivers and understanding your triggers and ways to manage them is important, but so hard. Your blood sugars will then stabilize. The Eating Disorders Team help you to understand all this, plus the importance of regular meals and snacks. When you start to eat regularly and have binges, (so physical hunger is not the cause) then they help you understand the emotions/thoughts etc;
It is something I have struggled with, but found treatment helpful.
Good luck to you.
Thanks. I had a referral to the eating disorders team when I was first diagnosed, but it was during lockdown and only had a couple of online meetings, which I didn’t feel helped at all. My diabetes nurse recently recommended I be referred back to the diabetes care team, but the doctor said they wouldn’t take me back as they have already tried to help me. So I definitely feel like they’ve all given up on me!
I will definitely have to look into finding some help myself. Thank you for your message though xx
 
I'm sorry that the 2 sessions weren't helpful. Would you consider a re-referral? The treatment provided should follow the NICE guidelines. I was lucky in that the ED Team in my area are good, you may not be so lucky.

BEAT also run online support groups. I explored a Therapist via their Help finder - not local to me but they provided online treatment. I didn't progress it. But of course, you need the money for private!

I hope services don't give up on you - it would really poor if they did - they should recognise how complex the disorder is and its interaction/impact upon diabetes. But it may take persistence and insistence from you.

All the best
 
It does sound from what you say that the root cause of bingeing is emotional (to be honest, this is the most likely cause for most eating disorders???????)

About the 'hiding' which you say you've done all your life. Going now into amateur shrink mode (!!!!), again, can you see anything in your childhood and youth that might be associated with this? How strict were your parents? Did you feel 'denied' or 'ignored' etc etc. All the 'usual suspects' when it comes to why childhood experiences can haunt us all our lives? (I fear running out of money, as that was very predominant in my childhood, and scared me a lot. I also grew up 'knowing' I was ugly, as I was not beautiful like my mother)(etc etc!!!!!)

But maybe 'secret eating' is like 'secret drinking' - something we are 'ashamed' of as society regards both as self-indulgent. So we want to hide it and avoid the shame?

I'm glad the 'parent/child/adult' model resonated - the fact that I know about it is because it so struck my friend on the weight loss programme, so it does sound like it might be applicable in many cases.

I experience it too sometimes (since January and my DX into pre-D, I've been low cal and low carb, trying to force my Hb1AC down!!!), and always have. Like most women who are not 'born skinny' (grrrrr!!!!)(though, yes, they have their own issues and problems I know), I've never been able to eat all I want, in that if I did, I'd be the size of an elephant by now. Greed has always warred with vanity (and now as I get old, vanity is replaced by the desire not to have health complications from overeating!).

So I do get why and how 'the inner child' can suddenly get loose, and we go into 'hanged for a sheep as a lamb' etc etc....

I do think, too, that one of the toughest things is not when we have overeaten all our lives, and never tried to control our eating, but when we have tried repeatedly and 'failed'. It's like the bitter old joke - 'Giving up cigarettes is easy - I've done it loads of times'. Yes, exactly...

Then each 'failure', each 'falling off the food wagon', only reconfirms that we are 'helpless' and 'useless' and 'just can't do it'. Every failure reinforces failure itself.

It's interesting and I would suspect revealing that there seems to be no particular pattern, and no particular triggers. Yet triggers there must be one - no effect without a cause. 'Something' must set it off. It could be external and 'adventitious' of course. For example, if I see, say, a marked down sticky creamy calorific cake, or pud, in the supermarket, then I think 'Hey, a sign from God that I should buy it and eat it!'. That in itself can release the child. (It links, too, to my fear of running out of money, in that when I see a 'bargain' I think, hey, that will save me some money - even if it's something I shouldn't buy anyway, sigh)

One other thought that might, possibly, give you something of a handle. Would you say you go 'all or nothing' when it comes to the cakes etc? Do you have ANY limit when you are in binge mode? What actually stops you at the time? Is it because the cake has all gone, and the biscuits are gone, and the cereal is gone, etc etc - ie, there is nothing left to eat? Or is that you actually feel full by then (or sick, or both!). Or does something from the outside world 'interrupt' you - eg, a phone call, bedtime, etc.

Do you think it might help at all if you logged what you eat when you bingeing? I know 'the child' won't want to - it's a 'confession of shame' too for the 'parent' in you. (Did I really eat three chocolate cakes, four eclairs and three packets of biscuits'??!)


But if you wrote down, every night (assuming that's when you binge in secret??), just what you binged, could you then, the following night, resolve not to eat quite that much as the night before?

I'm not saying 'don't binge at all' - I'm saying, 'leave something'. Don't eat everything you want. Put just a little aside, every, every night. The purpose is to establish that you can control your impulse even just by a little - it's significant, i would say, psychologically and emotionally, even if the actual amount you don't eat is pretty trivial. Then, if that works, you could try and increase, every night, the amount you don't eat. (Obviously, you can't cheat by buying more carb food than you normally would, so there is a bit left over that way!)

You could also do this by carb counting - just tot up all the calories/carbs you have binged on. Again, you won't want to, but if you write it down, then do the same the next day, but deliberately set aside a couple of hundred calories' worth of cake, then you will have achieved 'management' to a degree - ie, you've gone into 'adult' mode. Only a bit, but it's the principle that counts. It's something to build on.

Finally, as we know, it's SO easy to think, the moment we 'lapse' that 'Oh hell, here we go, I give in, I've lost the battle so I might as well just stuff my face totally' etc etc. Which, even if you do do one night, does NOT mean you are 'doomed' to repeat that the next night.

One last thought for now - would a strategy of deferrment be helpful? That way, if your normal 'binge time' is, say 10 pm (as it is for my chum - it's when her early rising husband goes to bed, she has the house to herself, and he can't see her hit the cake....), if you deliberately defer it by, say, even fifteen minutes (and then eat whatever it was you were going to eat anyway), it, again, places you into 'adult' mode. You are now 'managing' the situation. You are deliberately saying, yes, I sahll eat that cake, but not for 15 minutes.

The idea is gradually to postpone, a little bit longer, a little bit longer and then, especially if it is bedtime, you find you are starting to 'time out' of eating ALL that food in the window remaing to you, so your overall intake is 'less' than it would otherwise have been.

I do think, I guess, that a draconian 'all or nothing' strategy is too high stake - gradualism seems more achievable, at lower pain to yourself, and with a greater chance of being long-term sustainable.
 
It does sound from what you say that the root cause of bingeing is emotional (to be honest, this is the most likely cause for most eating disorders???????)

About the 'hiding' which you say you've done all your life. Going now into amateur shrink mode (!!!!), again, can you see anything in your childhood and youth that might be associated with this? How strict were your parents? Did you feel 'denied' or 'ignored' etc etc. All the 'usual suspects' when it comes to why childhood experiences can haunt us all our lives? (I fear running out of money, as that was very predominant in my childhood, and scared me a lot. I also grew up 'knowing' I was ugly, as I was not beautiful like my mother)(etc etc!!!!!)

But maybe 'secret eating' is like 'secret drinking' - something we are 'ashamed' of as society regards both as self-indulgent. So we want to hide it and avoid the shame?

I'm glad the 'parent/child/adult' model resonated - the fact that I know about it is because it so struck my friend on the weight loss programme, so it does sound like it might be applicable in many cases.

I experience it too sometimes (since January and my DX into pre-D, I've been low cal and low carb, trying to force my Hb1AC down!!!), and always have. Like most women who are not 'born skinny' (grrrrr!!!!)(though, yes, they have their own issues and problems I know), I've never been able to eat all I want, in that if I did, I'd be the size of an elephant by now. Greed has always warred with vanity (and now as I get old, vanity is replaced by the desire not to have health complications from overeating!).

So I do get why and how 'the inner child' can suddenly get loose, and we go into 'hanged for a sheep as a lamb' etc etc....

I do think, too, that one of the toughest things is not when we have overeaten all our lives, and never tried to control our eating, but when we have tried repeatedly and 'failed'. It's like the bitter old joke - 'Giving up cigarettes is easy - I've done it loads of times'. Yes, exactly...

Then each 'failure', each 'falling off the food wagon', only reconfirms that we are 'helpless' and 'useless' and 'just can't do it'. Every failure reinforces failure itself.

It's interesting and I would suspect revealing that there seems to be no particular pattern, and no particular triggers. Yet triggers there must be one - no effect without a cause. 'Something' must set it off. It could be external and 'adventitious' of course. For example, if I see, say, a marked down sticky creamy calorific cake, or pud, in the supermarket, then I think 'Hey, a sign from God that I should buy it and eat it!'. That in itself can release the child. (It links, too, to my fear of running out of money, in that when I see a 'bargain' I think, hey, that will save me some money - even if it's something I shouldn't buy anyway, sigh)

One other thought that might, possibly, give you something of a handle. Would you say you go 'all or nothing' when it comes to the cakes etc? Do you have ANY limit when you are in binge mode? What actually stops you at the time? Is it because the cake has all gone, and the biscuits are gone, and the cereal is gone, etc etc - ie, there is nothing left to eat? Or is that you actually feel full by then (or sick, or both!). Or does something from the outside world 'interrupt' you - eg, a phone call, bedtime, etc.

Do you think it might help at all if you logged what you eat when you bingeing? I know 'the child' won't want to - it's a 'confession of shame' too for the 'parent' in you. (Did I really eat three chocolate cakes, four eclairs and three packets of biscuits'??!)


But if you wrote down, every night (assuming that's when you binge in secret??), just what you binged, could you then, the following night, resolve not to eat quite that much as the night before?

I'm not saying 'don't binge at all' - I'm saying, 'leave something'. Don't eat everything you want. Put just a little aside, every, every night. The purpose is to establish that you can control your impulse even just by a little - it's significant, i would say, psychologically and emotionally, even if the actual amount you don't eat is pretty trivial. Then, if that works, you could try and increase, every night, the amount you don't eat. (Obviously, you can't cheat by buying more carb food than you normally would, so there is a bit left over that way!)

You could also do this by carb counting - just tot up all the calories/carbs you have binged on. Again, you won't want to, but if you write it down, then do the same the next day, but deliberately set aside a couple of hundred calories' worth of cake, then you will have achieved 'management' to a degree - ie, you've gone into 'adult' mode. Only a bit, but it's the principle that counts. It's something to build on.

Finally, as we know, it's SO easy to think, the moment we 'lapse' that 'Oh hell, here we go, I give in, I've lost the battle so I might as well just stuff my face totally' etc etc. Which, even if you do do one night, does NOT mean you are 'doomed' to repeat that the next night.

One last thought for now - would a strategy of deferrment be helpful? That way, if your normal 'binge time' is, say 10 pm (as it is for my chum - it's when her early rising husband goes to bed, she has the house to herself, and he can't see her hit the cake....), if you deliberately defer it by, say, even fifteen minutes (and then eat whatever it was you were going to eat anyway), it, again, places you into 'adult' mode. You are now 'managing' the situation. You are deliberately saying, yes, I sahll eat that cake, but not for 15 minutes.

The idea is gradually to postpone, a little bit longer, a little bit longer and then, especially if it is bedtime, you find you are starting to 'time out' of eating ALL that food in the window remaing to you, so your overall intake is 'less' than it would otherwise have been.

I do think, I guess, that a draconian 'all or nothing' strategy is too high stake - gradualism seems more achievable, at lower pain to yourself, and with a greater chance of being long-term sustainable.
I think some of the problem is being single and home alone every day, as I work from home. I have the opportunity to eat whatever I want when my kids are at school, or at their dads. I worry about meeting someone and having to open up and admit the way food seems to control me.
I want to be in control before being able to let someone else into my life. Unless I can meet someone who can work out what the hell is going on in my head!
You were saying about the hiding of food that I do, and could it be traced back to something from my childhood…I don’t think it’s anything specific, but I know I’ve always felt ashamed of eating too much in front of other people, and so the only way I can eat the way I want to is in secret.
I don’t know what triggers it, I don’t know what stops the binges, I don’t know why this has been such a big part of my life. But I know I have to do something…and soon.
Thank you xx
 
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