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still confused

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delta

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hi my son is on mutiple injections a day what i dont under stand is he has levimer at bedtime is that suppose to cover his supper, as i've been checking him in the night and he's allways high around 18mmol so should i be giving him novarapid with his supper he would normally have cereal. thanks:confused:
 
Hi delta

I don't take levemir myself (I take Lantus). I would advise first of all talking about this with the nurse so you can understand things especially about your son's blood sugars in the night. Type 1s need to take two types of insulin if they are on the basal bolus (multi injection) regime (I assume your son is a type 1) - one short acting (bolus) insulin such as humalog to cover the carbs we eat and one long acting (basal) like Lantus or Levemir, which keeps our blood sugars stable throughout the day. This aims to mimic the action of the pancreas. Depending on what carbs a diabetic eats and what their blood sugar is, if on this regime they usually need to inject their bolus insulin before eating if they are eating carbs like cereal, the dose would be dependent on their ratio of carbs to insulin and should be discussed with a nurse.
 
Definately chat it over with a DSN but usually the basal (levimer/lantus) insulin will be taken once or twice a day and worked out to cover the glucose given out by the liver throughout the day. This should mean that it keeps the blood glucose levels even regardless of food given. The bolus insulin (eg novorapid) is to cover glucose taken in by food and if you're carb counting it will vary accoridng to the carb content of a meal and your ratios. Most people would expect to take novorapid for each meal including evening(unless carb free) so I'd give a call to the DSN to check.
 
Hi Delta,

Alex is on the same as your son. My understanding is that the basal (levemir) is the 'background' insulin and lasts 24 hours (approx).(slow acting)
The bolus (novorapid) is used entirely for eating food as its fast acting and when used in conjuction with carb counting shouldnt last in the body for more than 4 hours (approx).
So, if your son is eating supper before bed and its over the 14 grams (free carbs snack allowed without insulin) then he will need novorapid to cover the full amount of carbs he is eating.
I hope i have explained myself ok?🙂Bev
 
hi my son is on mutiple injections a day what i dont under stand is he has levimer at bedtime is that suppose to cover his supper, as i've been checking him in the night and he's allways high around 18mmol so should i be giving him novarapid with his supper he would normally have cereal. thanks:confused:

How long before he goes to bed does he have his supper? A bowl of cereal is likely to be quite a lot of carbs - it's basically what I would eat for breakfast, and I would have to cover that with insulin. The levemir is there to 'mop up' the small amount of glucose that the liver releases through the day and night, not to counter the effects of extra food.

What are his levels like before the cereal? If he's eating this just before bed I'd be wary of giving a bolus injection in case you've overestimated and he falls low, but you need to see what your DSN says. Personally, I only have a snack if I feel my levels are likely to drop too low overnight, I wouldn't routinely eat before bed. Perhaps it's worth considering changing his habits so that his evening meal is the last substantial thing he eats in the 4 hours prior to bed, or at least have something very low in carbs unless his bedtime level is low.
 
Some people can get away with eating a snack like this without takingfast acting insulin, but I don't think most people can. I can't!
 
I take levermir at night only, if I have a snack befor bed i do no need to have any fast acting insulin the levermir covers it through the night and my BS are around the 5 or 6 in the morning which is fine for me. Like everyone else says speak to the DN about it.
________
Toys extreme
 
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Hi Delta,

Alex is on the same as your son. My understanding is that the basal (levemir) is the 'background' insulin and lasts 24 hours (approx).(slow acting)
The bolus (novorapid) is used entirely for eating food as its fast acting and when used in conjuction with carb counting shouldnt last in the body for more than 4 hours (approx).
So, if your son is eating supper before bed and its over the 14 grams (free carbs snack allowed without insulin) then he will need novorapid to cover the full amount of carbs he is eating.
I hope i have explained myself ok?🙂Bev

thanks thats what i was thinking maybe ok upto a certain amount may try giving him a small amount of novarapid to cover the cereal
 
Hi Delta,

When Alex has his cereal in the morning he has about 80grams in weight of cereal and then 250mls milk with it - which comes to about 90grams carbs (depending which cereal)- and his ratio is 1:15 so i would give him 6 units of novorapid.
I cant believe your son has much less than this as he is older than Alex isnt he? So if he is eating this amount for supper then he most definately needs novorapid to cover it. Unless he is eating so little that it counts as a 14g snack? Bev



p.s. please check with his DN first just in case he is likely to react to the novorapid - he hasnt been on it long has he?
 
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Hi Delta,

When Alex has his cereal in the morning he has about 80grams in weight of cereal and then 250mls milk with it - which comes to about 90grams carbs (depending which cereal)- and his ratio is 1:15 so i would give him 6 units of novorapid.
I cant believe your son has much less than this as he is older than Alex isnt he? So if he is eating this amount for supper then he most definately needs novorapid to cover it. Unless he is eating so little that it counts as a 14g snack? Bev



p.s. please check with his DN first just in case he is likely to react to the novorapid - he hasnt been on it long has he?

my son is 9 he normally has about 30 to 40 grams of cereal .
how much levimer do you give and what time
 
Delta,
Sorry i thought your son was 13! Anyway - are you carb counting? Perhaps not yet as its early days isnt it? Alex has his levemir at 9pm just before bedtime.Have you phoned your DN? Things may be slightly different for your little boy - given thats it a new lot of insulin etc - so although i can tell you what Alex does etc .. you must remember that we have been doing MDI for 4 months now and i wouldnt want you to try anything with your son unless you have checked!🙂Bev
 
Hello Delta

My son is 13 and has been diagnosed since mid-Nov -- so we are all pretty new here, I guess. Anyway, my understanding is like bev's: levermir for background only, and the addition of novorapid injections with a reasonable amount of food, eg more than 14 g carbs (tho, as mentioned before on this forum, even this raises him. It's just that the levermir manages to bring him down again. Usually!)

My only rather strong thought is along with Northerner's -- I would be very wary of giving novorapid last thing at night. You cannot really yet predict your son's reaction to novorapid, and anyway nighttime reaction seems different.... so I'd give only a small snack at night if he's hungry or low. We've stopped having an automatic snack at night -- but my son's older and may therefore take this in his stride more easily?

My son is on 17 levermir per day, split 8 in morning, 9 at night. His current ratios are 1:8 in the morning, 1:10 at lunch, and 1:12 with evening meal. He eats a huge breakfast, so will normally have 35g cereal, and two pieces of toast or egg, tomatoes, bacon, one piece of toast etc. Sometimes he has porridge instead of cereal. Unless he wakes high, we stick with a cap of 8 units on breakfast (at 9units, his tendency is to hypo, whatever he's had for breakfast). If high, we will go to 9units if he doesn't do PE or Games first thing. Etc!

The rest of his meals vary a lot. Most packed lunches are 50-60g carb, eg 5-6 units. Dinners can be anything from 8 units down to 3 units, depending on carb content.

I've lost my train of thought...does this reply help at all?!
 
Well, its helped me Patricia! Lol. Interested in the 'cap' you put on the breakfast insulin? Alex had been suffering hypo's at 11am - no matter what ratio we have tried - so now wondering whether we should be thinking of 'capping' breakfast? I will ask his DN! Thanks. Bev🙂
 
I'm not on insulin, but dose splitting springs to mind. Levemir is SUPPOSED to last 24 hours but many people find this is not the case. Its down to the individual. Splitting it into two doses helps some people a lot - I assume Patricia has already found this to be the case.
 
you say that his levels are around 18 before bed after his supper, which would indicate that he does need some novorapid to cover this snack (after speaking to DSN of course). I'd be interested to know what his fasting level is. If it's in normal range then giving novorapid will cause night hypos. If he drops alot overnight then it would indicate too much levemir.
 
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