Spike after breakast

[Lorilo]

Hello all fairly new to the forum and have already gleaned some good advice whereby I am experimenting with food to try and avoid spikes! I do however seem to have blown it this morning after eating a very small bowl of porridge with skimmed milk and a few blueberries and by BG shot up to 14.4! Thus far I have not managed to find anything to eat for breakfast without causing a spike. I never used to bother with breakfast before type 2 diagnosis so wonder if it's ok to skip it completely? Any advice would be most helpful.

 

[Docb]

Would have happened to me!! I experimented with blueberries a while ago and they gave me a big spike so maybe you are not alone. Some of us just can't cope with them. Might be worth trying porridge without blueberries to see what the oats alone do.

Have a quick look through the food based forum sections. You will find lots of discussion on breakfast options.

 

[Lanny]

Hi, there @Lorilo Welcome to the forum!

I get where your coming from about breakfast: never really been a breakfast person & only started eating it since 2015 at my DSN team’s suggestion to help control my morning reading better; it REALLY does!

You see, contrary to common sense, not eating breakfast can make your blood sugars, sorry I’m old school & that’s the term used when I was diagnosed 19 years ago, go higher & higher until you do eat!

The problem is that we humans come with “batteries included”, as it were, in that the liver stores glucose & trickles it out a little at a time to keep all of our organs etc. going 24/7! There’s something called “Dawn Phenomenon” in which most people wake up with extra glucose in the blood released from the liver to help us start the day: a biological throwback to our “Stone Age Man” days when we had to catch breakfast in the morning before we could eat!

Eating actually helps as it switches off that extra sugar dump by your liver in the morning!

I have to tell you eating breakfast was very strange to me & a struggle to start with but, I stuck with it, by & large, & it really makes a difference! Now, 5 years on I still DON’T eat breakfast SOME of the time BUT, I DO eat something when I first get up: half an oatcake; just to stop the DP (Dawn Phenomenon) rise with half my usual breakfast dose of insulin until I eat lunch!

Everyone is an individual & I had to work out what, how much to eat & how much insulin to have in the morning to stop that DP rise. For some protein like cheese or a slice of chicken or sandwich meat works for them: my DSN team in 2015 suggested a slice of toast which didn’t really work for me! Learnt from the forum that bread in general, unless low carb & high protein, is a problem for breakfast! I found oatcakes worked much better for me but, still took a bit of experimentation & testing, that’s key experiment & test, to find the perfect amount, half of one, & the correct amount of insulin, half my dose, to switch off the liver’s dump of sugar without putting up my blood sugars!

There’s a very helpful thread on The Food forum “What did you eat yesterday” that could help give you an idea of what different members eat for breakfast, & the other meals of the day! Breakfast is the trickiest meal to get right, for most diabetics but, worth doing so as starting the day in target range usually means staying in target range for the rest of the day: most of the time; always the odd curve balls here & there as diabetes isn’t always a smooth journey!

Everybody is different & for me my blood sugars continue to rise until I eat something when I’m awake so, no I don’t tend to skip breakfast; even if it’s only half an oatcake. The only way you’ll find out how you react to what you eat & how much you eat is to try it, test & see the results on your blood sugars. But, reading around these forums with members from different types of diabetes can give you a very good idea of starting points & you can always post any questions you have & somebody will usually post with answers or helpful suggestions!

You may also find this thread helpful as you experiment & test:-

Test, Review, Adjust

Managing blood glucose levels for type 2 diabetes. Learning how to achieve long term control by testing and diet.

loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

 

[Anitram]

Hello all fairly new to the forum and have already gleaned some good advice whereby I am experimenting with food to try and avoid spikes! I do however seem to have blown it this morning after eating a very small bowl of porridge with skimmed milk and a few blueberries and by BG shot up to 14.4! Thus far I have not managed to find anything to eat for breakfast without causing a spike. I never used to bother with breakfast before type 2 diagnosis so wonder if it's ok to skip it completely? Any advice would be most helpful.

You could try it with strawberries, which have approximately half the carbohydrate of blueberries.

My wife (she's not diabetic) has porridge for breakfast, made with wholegrain rolled oats. The pack says it's 60% carbohydrate. Do you weigh your portions to calculate the carb content?

Martin

 

[Ljc]

Some people find that porridge causes a spike.
Yes I know it’s healthy and we’re often advised to have it for breakfast but for some it’s a no no.
How about an omelette instead

 

[rebrascora]

You need to play around with the portion size of porridge and berries if you want to stick with this breakfast. Make sure to have some digital kitchen scales and weigh the porridge oats, so you know how many carbs you are getting and try just 6-8 blueberries to start with or go with a few strawberries or raspberries instead. I usually just have half a dozen rasps and then bulk my small portion of porridge (made with 25-30g dry jumbo oats) out with mixed seeds and creamy Greek yoghurt and chopped nuts.
You will find that full fat milk and full fat yoghurt usually have less carbs than their low fat alternatives and the fat has the benefit of helping to keep you feeling full throughout the morning and providing slow release energy and it will help to slow the rise in BG from the porridge and blueberries, so don't be frightened of full fat products, even if you need to lose weight. Cutting right down on carbs will help you do that.
Alternatively you could go without breakfast and see if you have problems with your BG rising as Lanny mentions, but it is not something everyone experiences, so you may be fine not having breakfast or have a "grab and go" breakfast like a protein bar or a nut bar. Nature Valley do tasty Protein bars in Salted Caramel or Chocolate chip which are under 10g carbs per bar and come in a pack of 4 (other protein bars can be significantly higher) or Aldi do a Nut Bar which is Gluten Free and is half coated in dark chocolate and is just 5.9g carbs and comes in a pack of 3 if I remember rightly.

I sometimes just have Creamy Greek natural yoghurt with a few berries and mixed seeds and chopped nuts as a lower carb alternative to the porridge option or Eat Natural do a Low Carb Granola which only has 34g carbs per 100g as oppose to 60+ in porridge oats or other Granolas, so a small portion of that with seeds and yoghurt and a few berries also works but weighing portions of these things is important so you know how many carbs you are getting and also because otherwise your portion size will gradually get bigger.

 

[Lorilo]

Thanks for all your advice everyone. On waking today my BG was 8.4 which is about where it is every day but I suffer from insomnia and only sleep 3 to 4 hours most nights so could be the culprit. I skipped breakfast and had a very light lunch cooked chicken with one slice of very low carb bread (15g) but post lunch my BG was 14 even though I had taken 500mg metformin at 9.30am. I weigh everything, check carb value and stick to really small portions but cant seem to get control of my BG. I guess it is really trial and error and I shall take on board for suggestions and see how I get on.

 

[Pine Marten]

Hi @Lorilo, do you test before meals? If your pre-meal reading was 11 for example, then the post-meal reading of 14 wasn't so bad. If it was say, 8, then a rise of 6 to 14 isn't so good!

By the way, I couldn't do without breakfast - it's one of my favourite meals!

 

[Drummer]

I would not call 15gm of carbs from bread a light lunch.
Skimmed milk is basically sugary water with a few minerals, any form of grain is simply too many carbs for me to cope with.
Yes, others can manage to eat or drink them but I tend to have a breakfast which is under 10 gm of carbs - this morning I have scrambled eggs and cheese with a few dates. I will now go through to dinner this evening and have meat or fish with a few more carbs as I can cope better with them later in the day. I drink a couple of coffees with cream during the day, and might have berries with cream, sugar free jelly, or full fat yoghurt as a dessert.

 

[silentsquirrel]

I would not call 15gm of carbs from bread a light lunch.
Skimmed milk is basically sugary water with a few minerals, any form of grain is simply too many carbs for me to cope with.
Yes, others can manage to eat or drink them but I tend to have a breakfast which is under 10 gm of carbs - this morning I have scrambled eggs and cheese with a few dates.

I am surprised that a few dates is under 10g carbs! A typo, perhaps? But no idea what for!

 

[Anitram]

I would not call 15gm of carbs from bread a light lunch.
Skimmed milk is basically sugary water with a few minerals, any form of grain is simply too many carbs for me to cope with.
Yes, others can manage to eat or drink them but I tend to have a breakfast which is under 10 gm of carbs - this morning I have scrambled eggs and cheese with a few dates. I will now go through to dinner this evening and have meat or fish with a few more carbs as I can cope better with them later in the day. I drink a couple of coffees with cream during the day, and might have berries with cream, sugar free jelly, or full fat yoghurt as a dessert.

A few dates? I would have thought all dates would be off limits, Medjool dates in particular at 18g carbohydrate per date.

 

[Lorilo]

Hi @Lorilo, do you test before meals? If your pre-meal reading was 11 for example, then the post-meal reading of 14 wasn't so bad. If it was say, 8, then a rise of 6 to 14 isn't so good!

By the way, I couldn't do without breakfast - it's one of my favourite meals!

Hi yes I test before breakfast and my readings on waking are usually around 7 or 8. I usually take 500mg metformin half hour before breakfast. It seems whatever I eat for breakfast causes a spike although I am going to try an omelette as suggested on the forum. I could do easily skip breakfast but the consensus seems to be to eat something.

 

[rebrascora]

@Lorilo
I think you may have misunderstood. The question Pine Marten was trying to get at was "Did you test before lunch?" All sorts of things can cause your BG to fluctuate throughout the day, not just food, so it helps to test before each meal and then 2 hours later so that you have an idea of what effect that meal had. If you only tested first thing in the morning and then after lunch any number of factors could have caused a rise from 8.4 to 14.
When I wake up on a morning my BG steadily rises without eating any food and I need to inject insulin to counteract that. It would usually rise by 5 or 6 mmols without that insulin.
If I do very exertive exercise it will go up, but that exercise will likely have an effect in lowering my levels over the next 24 hours.
Sometimes a lack of regular food will cause the liver to pump out some extra glucose which will send your BG up. which is why skipping breakfast may not always be a good idea. Regular testing will tell you whether you are better having breakfast or not. On the other hand fasting can be a way to improve insulin sensitivity, so may be beneficial in the long run.
It is important not to get hung up on one off readings and to double check if you get a particularly unexpected reading. It is amazing how easy it is to have a trace of something sweet on your finger without realising it which can compromise the reading, or just have a duff test strip.

 

[Drummer]

I am surprised that a few dates is under 10g carbs! A typo, perhaps? But no idea what for!

They are tiny, dry, and I eat three of them. They act exactly like the other breakfasts I have in BG terms, but they are beneficial when I feel a bit bunged up.
Medjool dates would be about 5 or 6 times larger than the ones I buy - I hate to think how many times more expensive, vastly sweeter and softer in texture so might not do the trick.

 

[Lorilo]

@Lorilo
I think you may have misunderstood. The question Pine Marten was trying to get at was "Did you test before lunch?" All sorts of things can cause your BG to fluctuate throughout the day, not just food, so it helps to test before each meal and then 2 hours later so that you have an idea of what effect that meal had. If you only tested first thing in the morning and then after lunch any number of factors could have caused a rise from 8.4 to 14.
When I wake up on a morning my BG steadily rises without eating any food and I need to inject insulin to counteract that. It would usually rise by 5 or 6 mmols without that insulin.
If I do very exertive exercise it will go up, but that exercise will likely have an effect in lowering my levels over the next 24 hours.
Sometimes a lack of regular food will cause the liver to pump out some extra glucose which will send your BG up. which is why skipping breakfast may not always be a good idea. Regular testing will tell you whether you are better having breakfast or not. On the other hand fasting can be a way to improve insulin sensitivity, so may be beneficial in the long run.
It is important not to get hung up on one off readings and to double check if you get a particularly unexpected reading. It is amazing how easy it is to have a trace of something sweet on your finger without realising it which can compromise the reading, or just have a duff test strip.

Thank you. I am now testing before and 2 hours after food. I have downloaded an app which records my readings and allows me to enter what I have eaten so quite helpful in identifying what causes a sudden spike in BG. I am still finding my feet with everything not least what I can or can't eat. Needless to say most of my favourite foods are off the menu these days!

 

[Drummer]

There are compensations, and also alternatives - a small serving of home made, low carb ice cream with chilled strawberries comes to mind as the heat ramps up this afternoon.
I have been eating mashed swede having damaged a tooth and not being able to access my dental surgery - having compared it with the mashed potato I make for my husband, I really can say it is preferable.
If you establish a regular pattern of testing you should find that your meter will give you averages of readings over various intervals so you can see if your readings are trending downwards as you test and adjust.

 

[Pine Marten]

Thank you. I am now testing before and 2 hours after food. I have downloaded an app which records my readings and allows me to enter what I have eaten so quite helpful in identifying what causes a sudden spike in BG. I am still finding my feet with everything not least what I can or can't eat. Needless to say most of my favourite foods are off the menu these days!

Sorry, I wasn't clear - @rebrascora was right, I meant before lunch to compare with that 14 reading. Still, you're testing now which is great, and will give you a lot of info about foods you can tolerate or not.

It's interesting that @Drummer mentioned dates - although these were not what she meant, I had visions of past Christmasses, long before D, where I'd buy several packs of medjool dates cos I loved them so much! Not any more though... <sigh>

 

[rebrascora]

Needless to say most of my favourite foods are off the menu these days!

Not necessarily although you will find new favourite foods to replace them I hope. You just need to experiment with smaller portions and just have them occasionally.
I am currently having just quarter of an hot cross bun. I wrap the other quarters in cling film and freeze and keep them for a little luxury treat with a cup of coffee and cream when my BG is a little on the low side. It seems a piddly amount but because I haven't had any for so long I relish the flavour of that little morsel of spicy yumminess!

 

[Drummer]

I am currently eating far less that had become normal as I am not gadding around doing morris dancing and longsword - no Maypole this year!! - but I have got all sorts of stuff to try out some baking once I up my output and intake again. I got some wheat gluten, psyllium husk flour, milled seeds, linseed, coconut flour and ground almonds, and I was thinking of experimenting with bread, but - perhaps fancy things such as hot cross buns might be worth pursuing once I have had a few goes at a basic bread recipe. Spices are low carb, after all, and rather than using candid peel, fresh orange and lemon zest - or grapefruit, I eat a grapefruit once a week, so maybe make the most of that.