Sourdough bread

[Cathie05]

I have heard that sourdough bread is good for diabetics. which one? so many our there. can make my own. no shops locally so needs must. Any suggestions or am i barking up the wrong tree?

 

[helli]

I have been baking (and eating) my own sourdough for years.
My experience is that it contains the same amount of carbs as normal bread but is a little slower to digest.

If you think about buying it, bear in mind the majority of supermarket sourdough is normal bread with sourdough "flavour". It is not slow proved as the space required for this is too costly.

 

[rebrascora]

I have heard that sourdough bread is good for diabetics. which one? so many our there. can make my own. no shops locally so needs must. Any suggestions or am i barking up the wrong tree?

I think you have to put this statement in context. Bread is bread and it contains carbs and therefore as a Type 2 diabetic bread is a food which will raise your BG levels. So whilst those carbs might release their glucose slightly slower than normal bread (and equally it might not depending upon your digestive system) it is really stretching it to say that it is "good for diabetics" in the same way that porridge might be considered healthy and is often recommended but it is high carb and will still release it's glucose into our blood stream. For some people that will be slower and that may allow their body to cope with it. For others of us our body breaks it down almost as quickly as sugar and it sends our BG levels into orbit.

Testing with a BG meter before and 2 hours afterwards will tell you if your body is able to cope with a slice of sourdough bread or a bowl of porridge but don't take information you read as gospel and if it is a choice between cabbage is good for your diabetes or bread is good for your diabetes I know which I would put my money on. Thankfully I love cabbage!

 

[brettr]

As a user of Tesco's finest white sourdough bread, when I first looked at this product, the sugar levels per slice were 0.6, yes bread of any type is still a carb, but with the sugar level being so low, I felt, I could at least have scrambled egg on toast and not be throwing my blood sugars too high. Tonight, I bought the same bread, but when I checked the information on the back of the package, the sugars per slice have now gone to 1.4 grams, which I'm appalled at. Going off the per 100g of all foods, that makes the sugars 2.7g (per 2 slices, 50g a slice), which is I suppose acceptable, as long as you are not eating the full loaf in 1 day. The carbs are 43.4g per 100g or 21.7g per slice at 50g.

I understand about watching the carbs and sugars that we consume as diabetics, but if we are only eating 2-3 slices in any one day, surely that should be ok ? I also accept that the medications I/we take will help control the sugar spikes, it just seems that a diabetics dies would be very dull and boring if we only eat the items we are supposed to.

 

[brettr]

I have been baking (and eating) my own sourdough for years.
My experience is that it contains the same amount of carbs as normal bread but is a little slower to digest.

If you think about buying it, bear in mind the majority of supermarket sourdough is normal bread with sourdough "flavour". It is not slow proved as the space required for this is too costly.

I never realised supermarket bought sourdough bread was down to it being a "flavouring" and not TRUE sourdough bread. It sounds like I am fooling myself into thinking that Tesco's 'FINEST' is not even the real product !

Would you happen to know the best place to buy real and proper sourdough bread from ? Other than making it myself.

 

[rebrascora]

21.7g carbs per slice is A LOT of carbs per slice and the digestive system breaks those carbs down into glucose almost as fast as sugar, especially white bread. You might be better with a Warburton's No Added sugar wholemeal loaf which is just 9g carbs per slice, so less than half of that or a LivLife which is just about 4g carbs per slice, if you really need bread.

Of course our digestive systems are all slightly different and you might be able to get away with a slice of this bread but you would be well advised to test your levels before eating and then 2 hours afterwards if you intend to make it a regular part of your diet, because it may well be causing you issues, especially if you eat 2 slices at a time.

Looking at the sugar content and ignoring carbs really is burying your head in the sand as far as dietary management of diabetes is concerned. Reducing your carb intake is way more powerful than most diabetes medication, so don't expect miracles from the tablets.

I used to love bread and potatoes but I really don't need them or crave them anymore and it is well over 2 years since I last bought a loaf and in fact the odd occasion that I have some at social gatherings like visiting family for a meal, I really wonder why I liked it so much! I had a hot beef sarnie with roasties at a pub the other day and it just seemed so bland and boring. The best bit was the horseradish sauce! Of course, the fact that it sent my BG levels into orbit was another element of the disappointment, but I expected that. Unfortunately there was no choice as the food was laid on for our driving club. Not something I would choose for myself anymore, that is for sure.

 

[Transistor]

BBC Sounds has a series called "Sliced Bread" which examines whether or not various products (not just foods) are "the best thing since sliced bread". One listener ask for a program on sourdough breads. You might find it interesting.

Sliced Bread - Sourdough - BBC Sounds

Is sourdough the best thing since sliced bread?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[brettr]

21.7g carbs per slice is A LOT of carbs per slice and the digestive system breaks those carbs down into glucose almost as fast as sugar, especially white bread. You might be better with a Warburton's No Added sugar wholemeal loaf which is just 9g carbs per slice, so less than half of that or a LivLife which is just about 4g carbs per slice, if you really need bread.

Of course our digestive systems are all slightly different and you might be able to get away with a slice of this bread but you would be well advised to test your levels before eating and then 2 hours afterwards if you intend to make it a regular part of your diet, because it may well be causing you issues, especially if you eat 2 slices at a time.

Looking at the sugar content and ignoring carbs really is burying your head in the sand as far as dietary management of diabetes is concerned. Reducing your carb intake is way more powerful than most diabetes medication, so don't expect miracles from the tablets.

I used to love bread and potatoes but I really don't need them or crave them anymore and it is well over 2 years since I last bought a loaf and in fact the odd occasion that I have some at social gatherings like visiting family for a meal, I really wonder why I liked it so much! I had a hot beef sarnie with roasties at a pub the other day and it just seemed so bland and boring. The best bit was the horseradish sauce! Of course, the fact that it sent my BG levels into orbit was another element of the disappointment, but I expected that. Unfortunately there was no choice as the food was laid on for our driving club. Not something I would choose for myself anymore, that is for sure.

Hi,

Thank you for your reply. On a personal level, it's not that I need to eat bread, there are just some meals that are not filling enough, example being, say I have scrambled egg with a small portion (200g) of reduced sugar baked beans, having that with the sourdough bread makes it a more filling breakfast, so I don't eat silly things during the day until I come to having something more appropriate for lunch and the same when it comes to my evening meal.

One of the worst things for myself is that about 2 or so hours after I have had my last meal, I start getting hungry, sometimes I will just drink water to have something in my stomach, other times it gets to a point where I start to feel sick, I'm probably better off eating something like celery late at night, as it's fibrous and take longer to digest, so leaves me feeling fuller for a longer period of time.

I understand that regardless of what I eat, that almost all foods will affect my blood sugars in some way.

Earlier this evening, I was taking a look through all the recipes on here, a lot of them sound amazing and tasty, but when I looked at the carbs and in some cases the sugars of these meals, they seem and look so contradictory, how can something that is high carb, say 53.2g, and then shows the sugars at 5.1g, be good for you, when the carb level alone is going to send blood sugars higher than you want them to be ? Again, the quantity of said foods comes into play here as well, portion control is a big part of the whole process as far as I see.

Thank you for the information about the breads you mention above that are low in carbs, I didn't even know these were available to eat.

I know from what I have been told so far that the biggest part of controlling my type 2 is down to me being careful with the foods I eat and the quantities etc, I do find a lot of the information confusing at times, as in too much information to process, makes me feel out of control of myself at times. I know the meds are there to only help and are not the be all and end all.

I'm hoping to go on the next round of the X-pert course when it becomes available for me to attend this time, I should have gone in January but because of illness, I could not make it, so am waiting for the next available dates.

Here is a question for you, I want a sliced corn beef and salad sandwich, is there ANY alternative to bread that I could use to make some form of said sandwich ?

 

[rebrascora]

One of the worst things for myself is that about 2 or so hours after I have had my last meal, I start getting hungry, sometimes I will just drink water to have something in my stomach, other times it gets to a point where I start to feel sick,

This is quite typical and probably because your BG levels are spiking and then crashing from a carb rich diet..... it makes you want more carbs. Once you cut the carbs and eat more fat and protein and fibre, you stop getting that hunger and I can often go all day on just 2 meals or sometimes just one.

The carbs like bread and beans are not filling you up, they are just releasing glucose into your blood stream and starting off the rollercoaster. The eggs are the redeeming feature of that breakfast, but try them as a 2 or 3 egg omelette with a variety of filling like mushrooms, onion, peppers, tomato, ham, cheese, courgettes, aubergines, spinach.... whatever you have in the fridge that needs using up. I have this with a large side salad and a big dollop of cheese coleslaw and that will keep me going from breakfast until my evening meal without feeling hungry.

I understand that regardless of what I eat, that almost all foods will affect my blood sugars in some way.

Not necessarily. Of the 3 macro nutrients, carbs release 100% glucose in about 2 hours. This is the body's preferred source of energy because it is quickly and easily digested. That sounds good but with diabetes it isn't. You need to slow things down so that you don't get those high peaks and troughs with your BG levels.
In the absence of enough carbs, the body breaks down about 40% of protein into glucose which releases over about 6-8 hours from eating, so your restricted insulin response due to diabetes, can cope much better with the longer slower release.
Interestingly fat takes even longer to break down and it only produces about 10% glucose, so it barely changes your BG levels at all..... The one food that we have been encouraged to reduce all our lives ie to choose low fat products, is the one that will stop us from feeling hungry, provide slow release energy and stabilize our BG levels and it tastes good. Perhaps even more surprisingly, since I started eating more fat, my cholesterol levels have gone down instead of up, I don't get cravings or feel hungry and I eat less and I feel fitter and healthier than I have for many years and some other health issues have resolved, like acute migraines and joint pain. It really has been quite an epiphany and not just for me. Many people have found the same. In fact there are some medical professionals who believe that instead of preventing people from getting fat, the low fat diet has caused us to want to eat more carbs because of this spike and drop in our BG levels with carbs and as a result we have progressively eaten larger portions and snacks, because we feel hungry... and put on weight which can lead to diabetes.

As regards the recipes on the main website, Diabetes UK is quite strongly tied into the NHS dietary guidance mostly I think because they are frightened to go against the Low Fat government advice. Personally I would not eat most of those recipes. Much as I appreciate Diabetes UK hosting this forum as this has been invaluable in developing my knowledge and experience of diabetes, I don't find the main site helpful and I believe that some of it, like the recipes, is misleading and confusing and not helping people.
Of course there are different approaches here on the forum too, but we encourage people to test their levels before and 2 hours after meals so that they can see for themselves how their body responds to different foods and tailor their diet/menu to what their body can manage. Home testing allows you to "see" your diabetes (we often liken it to a speedomenter on a car..... not a good idea to drive without one because you risk a speeding ticket/high HbA1c result if you just blindly follow the guidance. When you can experiment on yourself and see the actual numbers, then you can make informed decisions about what is worth a little BG upheaval as an occasional treat and what is best avoided particularly on a daily basis. You can also play around with portion sizes and bulk meals out with lower carb items to fill up your plate and your stomach.

 

[brettr]

OH thank you for both sets of information you have replied back to me with. You have given me more to understand in these 2 replies that I have had from the diabetic nurses at my Doctor's surgery, I am not knocking them for doing their job as well as they can, but what you have told me here is invaluable to me.

I have to admit that I have not been testing my BG levels as I should be, partly because of the lack of such good information and relevant knowledge etc. I will be starting to do this on a regular basis from now on and also taking a look at how my body and BG's respond to the different foods I eat.

I have recently weighed myself (5 days ago) on my own electronic scales the result was 21 stones and 7 pounds, meaning I have put weight on which I am annoyed at, as previously, before Christmas, I had gotten down to 19 stones 6 pounds and was so happy, I put 9 pounds on over Christmas, but was wanting to take that back from the new year onwards. I went for a diabetic check up 2 days ago at my Doctors, got weighed there and was told I was back down to 21 stones 2 pounds. Is it possible to lose 5 pounds in a few days like that ? The main thing I did there was drink more water, and ate slightly less than normal.

You mention joint pain, that is something I have noticed I am dealing with more over these past few weeks than I ever did before, and my sleep patterns are well and truly messed up, hence why I am writing this to you at 03.22 in the morning and not earlier in the evening as I should be.

Once again, thank you so much for your wonderful words, you are a star x

 

[Leadinglights]

I reduced my carbs to 70g per day and do have a slice of toast (home made bread) with the eggs, eggs and bacon, poached egg on cheese on toast but also have full fat Greek yogurt with berries and a small (15g) portion of a low sugar granola for breakfast.
Have more protein and healthy fats with plenty of veg for your evening meal will help you not to be feeling hungry at night. But snacks could be nuts, protein nut bars like Nature Valley, KIND or shop own, high protein yoghurt or Kvarg deserts.
Have a look at this link for some meal ideas as it is a low carb approach, low carb is suggested as being no more than 130g total carbs not just sugar per day, so it is important to look at the carbs content not the sugar as you will get a erroneous idea of what may be tolerated. https://lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk/

 

[CatsFive]

I bake my own sourdough and have done for over 3 years.

I never realised supermarket bought sourdough bread was down to it being a "flavouring" and not TRUE sourdough bread. It sounds like I am fooling myself into thinking that Tesco's 'FINEST' is not even the real product !

Would you happen to know the best place to buy real and proper sourdough bread from ? Other than making it myself.

The clue is in the ingredients: Wheat Flour (Wheat Flour, Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin), Water, Rye Flour, Fermented Wheat Flour, Rapeseed Oil, Fermented Rye Flour, Salt, Yeast. I make sourdough from strong white & wholemeal rye flours, water, salt & starter. The starter is organic white bread flour & water.

Of course my white flour contains the normal additives, but there is most certainly no yeast beyond the natural ones in the starter in my bread.

 

[harbottle]

As a user of Tesco's finest white sourdough bread, when I first looked at this product, the sugar levels per slice were 0.6, yes bread of any type is still a carb, but with the sugar level being so low, I felt, I could at least have scrambled egg on toast and not be throwing my blood sugars too high. Tonight, I bought the same bread, but when I checked the information on the back of the package, the sugars per slice have now gone to 1.4 grams, which I'm appalled at. Going off the per 100g of all foods, that makes the sugars 2.7g (per 2 slices, 50g a slice), which is I suppose acceptable, as long as you are not eating the full loaf in 1 day. The carbs are 43.4g per 100g or 21.7g per slice at 50g.

I understand about watching the carbs and sugars that we consume as diabetics, but if we are only eating 2-3 slices in any one day, surely that should be ok ? I also accept that the medications I/we take will help control the sugar spikes, it just seems that a diabetics dies would be very dull and boring if we only eat the items we are supposed to.

Are you checking your levels?

The medication can help a little but lifestyle change can be far greater for improving levels.

There's no need to have a boring diet.

There are plenty of simple ingredients that can make something delicious, there's no reason to find food 'boring' just because of T2D - just mixing some olive oil, mustard, red wine vinegar with seasoning can make a delicious dressing. Using herbs and spices over baked fish/chicken and vegetables that's been doused in white wine and olive oil is so tasty it's unbelievable. Stir fries with white wine, spices and double cream likewise.

 

[indio02]

the majority of supermarket sourdough is normal bread with sourdough "flavour". It is not slow proved as the space required for this is too costly.

Thanks for pointing this out its a complete scandal if you ask me! Oddly they don't mind charging extra for it though!

I've also started baking my own after my local bakery started charging £4.80/loaf. Don't get wrong it's absolutely delicious but just can't justify the cost at the moment.

 

[nonethewiser]

I've also started baking my own after my local bakery started charging £4.80/loaf. Don't get wrong it's absolutely delicious but just can't justify the cost at the moment.

Blimey would want 3 loafs for that price.

Keep meaning to get bread maker to make my own, do buy sourdough bread by The Polish Bakery, its sold in Tesco & Morrisons, delicious toasted with butter thickly spread over it.

 

[Drummer]

Blimey would want 3 loafs for that price.

Keep meaning to get bread maker to make my own, do buy sourdough bread by The Polish Bakery, its sold in Tesco & Morrisons, delicious toasted with butter thickly spread over it.

I made bread for years just using a bowl and hand mixing/kneading then cooking it in the oven.
I found that a bread maker was too harsh to make low carb breads and although it rose well the dough structure was destroyed before the second proving and the loaf ended up with a well in the centre.
The wild yeast from pears was used for bread making when I was a child - we had a couple of Conference pear trees and a ripe pear, sliced and put into warm water was the way to make a new starter mixture.

 

[brettr]

I reduced my carbs to 70g per day and do have a slice of toast (home made bread) with the eggs, eggs and bacon, poached egg on cheese on toast but also have full fat Greek yogurt with berries and a small (15g) portion of a low sugar granola for breakfast.
Have more protein and healthy fats with plenty of veg for your evening meal will help you not to be feeling hungry at night. But snacks could be nuts, protein nut bars like Nature Valley, KIND or shop own, high protein yoghurt or Kvarg deserts.
Have a look at this link for some meal ideas as it is a low carb approach, low carb is suggested as being no more than 130g total carbs not just sugar per day, so it is important to look at the carbs content not the sugar as you will get a erroneous idea of what may be tolerated. https://lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk/

This is the thing I need to be knowing and understanding, the total cards allowed per day, what classes as good fats, I know that protein comes from some of the meats we eat, but was very surprised to read that most of our protein actually comes from the veg we eat !

Luckily I do love my veg and realise I should be bulking my meals out with more veg than anything else for that fuller feeling so I try not to get hungry later in the evening and want to snack. I thought things like Nature Valley bars were off the menu because of the other things they are made with and from ? Same for Kind bars too ! I do buy packets of Walnuts from Morrisons and smaller packs of Brazil nuts from Tesco's. How do I get a high protein yoghurt that's not high in sugars too, every time I look at the labels, I end up putting them back on the shelf, but that's mainly because I was always looking at the sugar content only and not the carbs as mentioned here.

I will be taking a look at the link you gave me after I send this message. Thanks.

 

[brettr]

Thanks for pointing this out its a complete scandal if you ask me! Oddly they don't mind charging extra for it though!

I've also started baking my own after my local bakery started charging £4.80/loaf. Don't get wrong it's absolutely delicious but just can't justify the cost at the moment.

The Tesco Finest Sourdough bread I was buying is £1.70 a pack, but the Sourdough Boule is £2.00. I'd be throwing the bread at them if they were charging £4.80 a loaf for it, that is just ridiculous.

I don't think anyone can justify a loaf of ANY bread costing that much !

 

[Leadinglights]

This is the thing I need to be knowing and understanding, the total cards allowed per day, what classes as good fats, I know that protein comes from some of the meats we eat, but was very surprised to read that most of our protein actually comes from the veg we eat !

Luckily I do love my veg and realise I should be bulking my meals out with more veg than anything else for that fuller feeling so I try not to get hungry later in the evening and want to snack. I thought things like Nature Valley bars were off the menu because of the other things they are made with and from ? Same for Kind bars too ! I do buy packets of Walnuts from Morrisons and smaller packs of Brazil nuts from Tesco's. How do I get a high protein yoghurt that's not high in sugars too, every time I look at the labels, I end up putting them back on the shelf, but that's mainly because I was always looking at the sugar content only and not the carbs as mentioned here.

I will be taking a look at the link you gave me after I send this message. Thanks.

The Nature Valley, KIND, etc bars are not just any old ones but the protein ones as they are under 10g carbs per bar and you don't even need to have a whole one. The high protein yoghurts or Kvarg are somewhere around 3-4g carb per 100g making the whole pot less than 10g carbs.
Healthy fats include avocados, nuts, olives, oily fish. There is protein in veg, pulses mainly but with pulses you have to watch the carbs.

 

[Cathie05]

I have been baking (and eating) my own sourdough for years.
My experience is that it contains the same amount of carbs as normal bread but is a little slower to digest.

If you think about buying it, bear in mind the majority of supermarket sourdough is normal bread with sourdough "flavour". It is not slow proved as the space required for this is too costly.

Thank you