safety needles in school

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stevehb

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Type 1
Hi All, I just joined the group today and have a question.
My 6 year old son is T1 diabetic, he also has autism and a global developmental delay (this is where it gets tricky). He was diagnosed T1 about 6 months ago, and has taken everything surprisingly well, takes his insulin with minimal fuss and has his dexcom g6 fitted.
Unfortunately he will not take his insulin at school, at all, because they have to use safety needles (big white ones). His NHS team have refused to let him use his usual 'home' needles as it is against a European Law. Has anyone else had this happen? Any ideas to get around it?....The school are more than happy to use the non safety needles, they just want him to be as happy as possible.
Many thanks for reading
Steve
 
Are you in Europe?
We in the UK are not.
I read lots of things and there has never been any mention of a child needing to do anything differently when using insulin at school here - having to put their kit in a cupboard in the secretary's office, yes - but their usual kit.
 
Drummer said:
Are you in Europe?
We in the UK are not.
I read lots of things and there has never been any mention of a child needing to do anything differently when using insulin at school here - having to put their kit in a cupboard in the secretary's office, yes - but their usual kit.
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Hi, yes we're in Dorset, UK. I agree we are not in the EU, but technically we are still part of Europe. His diabetic team are adamant that he cannot use his normal needles. Hopefully someone will have an example where they can use them and then I can argue the point back to them.
 
stevehb said:
Hi, yes we're in Dorset, UK. I agree we are not in the EU, but technically we are still part of Europe. His diabetic team are adamant that he cannot use his normal needles. Hopefully someone will have an example where they can use them and then I can argue the point back to them.
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There are quite a few parents of quite young children and I have not seen any mention of problems with using their normal kit.
You might phone the Diabetes UK help line for their take and advice. The number is at the top.
 
If they can't offer any reasonable alternative to using his normal kit, then tell them that he will be using his usual kit - no argument.
They are in effect denying your son the treatment he needs - I'd be a bit peeved.
 
Drummer said:
If they can't offer any reasonable alternative to using his normal kit, then tell them that he will be using his usual kit - no argument.
They are in effect denying your son the treatment he needs - I'd be a bit peeved.
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exactly, they will be getting quite a short answer next time we discuss it, thanks for your replies
 
Leadinglights said:
There are quite a few parents of quite young children and I have not seen any mention of problems with using their normal kit.
You might phone the Diabetes UK help line for their take and advice. The number is at the top.
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Drummer said:
If they can't offer any reasonable alternative to using his normal kit, then tell them that he will be using his usual kit - no argument.
They are in effect denying your son the treatment he needs - I'd be a bit peeved.
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I think it makes a difference if the staff are doing the injections, not the child. Am I right in thinking it’s for the staff protection against needle stick injury?
Diabetes U.K. have written a guide to treatment in schools, it may be worth giving their helpline a call. (number at the top of the page)
 
Robin said:
I think it makes a difference if the staff are doing the injections, not the child. Am I right in thinking it’s for the staff protection against needle stick injury?
Diabetes U.K. have written a guide to treatment in schools, it may be worth giving their helpline a call. (number at the top of the page)
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it is the staff that will be giving the injection, although the school are more than willing to do it as we do it at home, the SEN co-ordinator has said she will do the risk assessment and approve it. Unfortunately the NHS team will not let it happen. I phoned the advice line in the first instance, they advised me to post to the forum to see if there are any real life scenarios that may comment.....If we tell the NHS team we are going to do it our way, what can they do? Stop the injection? take us to court? it seems ridiculous
 
stevehb said:
it is the staff that will be giving the injection, although the school are more than willing to do it as we do it at home, the SEN co-ordinator has said she will do the risk assessment and approve it. Unfortunately the NHS team will not let it happen. I phoned the advice line in the first instance, they advised me to post to the forum to see if there are any real life scenarios that may comment.....If we tell the NHS team we are going to do it our way, what can they do? Stop the injection? take us to court? it seems ridiculous
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There are parents on here who had children diagnosed quite young, who may have needed staff to give the injections, @Sally71 and @Thebearcametoo spring to mind, hopefully they’ll see this.
When faced with a jobsworth, I sometimes find asking them to provide you with the reference to the exact EU directive and it’s subsequent enshrinement in U.K. law sometimes concentrates their minds.
 
Sorry I can’t help either, my daughter was diagnosed right at the start of the summer holidays and was already on a pump by the time she went back to school.
 
I am assuming the housing on the needles is larger to cover the needle but the needle itself will surely be the same size? I am guessing that it is the look of the needles which cause the anxiety with your son rather than anything else like discomfort due to bigger needles.... Can you clarify if that is the case?
Have you tried using these needles at home in an environment where your son perhaps feels safer or more trusting. Can you incentivize the use of them somehow with a treat or distract him, so that he gets used to their use at home rather than them being new and strange at school.

As you say, I am not sure what the hospital team can do if the staff are happy to use ordinary needles and you supply them but I don't know where you or your team would stand legally if a member of staff was to get stuck with a used needle and suffer health issues as a result...... it is extremely unlikely on both counts but you do always need to consider worst case scenarios. I wonder if the staff signing some sort of disclaimer might help the situation if you can't get him used to these needles.
 
The other option would be to provide him with a low carb lunch which didn't require an insulin injection....
 
rebrascora said:
I am assuming the housing on the needles is larger to cover the needle but the needle itself will surely be the same size? I am guessing that it is the look of the needles which cause the anxiety with your son rather than anything else like discomfort due to bigger needles.... Can you clarify if that is the case?
Have you tried using these needles at home in an environment where your son perhaps feels safer or more trusting. Can you incentivize the use of them somehow with a treat or distract him, so that he gets used to their use at home rather than them being new and strange at school.

As you say, I am not sure what the hospital team can do if the staff are happy to use ordinary needles and you supply them but I don't know where you or your team would stand legally if a member of staff was to get stuck with a used needle and suffer health issues as a result...... it is extremely unlikely on both counts but you do always need to consider worst case scenarios. I wonder if the staff signing some sort of disclaimer might help the situation if you can't get him used to these needles.
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correct, it is the housing of the needle that is the problem, it looks massive compared to what he is used to. I just went to use one on myself and couldn't get it to go off properly, pulled away, touched the end and it released, it seems you really have to jab it in quite forcefully to release it. I hate them. The school have said they will do a risk assessment and sign off on it, so if they agree then hopefully there can be no reprimands after that point.
I have since found a HSE doc about sharp instruments in Healthcare, it clearly states 'the device must not compromise patient care'...these clearly are as he is refusing, I hope this line may be all that is needed to continue with the 'normal' needles
 
I found this article regarding the use of needles in schools https://eclipsesolutions.org/UploadedFiles/499_2020 02 28 Insulin Needles Factsheet v02.pdf

All children who attend school should be prescribed BD Autoshield needles this is to minimize the risk of needle stick injuries. These needles should be added to repeat prescriptions in addition to the above needles as they are for use in school, not for home use.  Adult DSN's do not routinely recommend BD Autoshield needles for adults
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I’m not exactly in your son’s situation but auto shield needles do look a but scarier and this might only be true in my case that I can’t use one without bleeding.

What does your son’s school have to say about this?
 
I am curious how this is going now. I work in a sen school and noticed nothing said so far takes into account his autism and GD issues and that these also are a huge barrier for your child accepting change in "reasonable" time. Surely the school should be considering that as equal with the type of needle used.

Even if you agreed to these safety needles your child may not be able tp cope period and can't be withheld life sustaining medication.

I'd look into how disability rights for both diabetes and autism affect things.
 
I wonder whether as a compromise the NHS team and your son might accept Novofine Autocover needles? The BD autoshield ones are horrible - I need covered needles as am needle-phobic and I tried both the BD autoshield and the Novofine Autocover when I was first diagnosed, and I thought the Novofine Autocover ones were much better.

The Novofine Autocover do also have chunky housing so I realise your son might not like that, but if you could persuade him to try some in a safe environment (perhaps if he sees you using some first without any problems) he might find that they feel much less unpleasant to use than the BD autoshield, you do not need to jab them in forcefully, and it's much easier to see exactly where you're injecting, so they're much less likely to cause pain or bleeding than the BD autoshield.

The Novofine Autocover also lock after use to reduce the risk of needle-stick injuries so would be just as safe for school staff as the BD autoshield.
 
His care team sound as moronic as the social workers and a few DSNs I have encountered! Good luck!
 
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