Readings Query

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Thank you, this mornings reading was taken about 90 mins after having to rush to the loo, so that might have affected it. The plan is to take the first reading of the day without setting a foot on the floor.

I will ask the GP the questions raised in the last part of you reply and will continue to monitor before and after until the appointment.

My meal last night was some non-processed chicken on ciabatta, not the healthiest thing but it was quick and simple.
 
With regard to your question about getting an independent reading, I don’t think my surgery will help as they keep telling me I don’t need to test as Metformin and Alogliptin aren’t hypo causing medications. I guess I could try a local pharmacy and see what they say.
They shouldn't use that as a reason for not helping you get a comparitive test. Their rationale for not providing test capability for any T2s is because that is what the NICE Guidance Note tells a Surgery to (not) do. It saves the NHS budget; I think there is a feeling that many T2s wouldn't be willing or interested in regular testing; seeing results could make Patients overly anxious and increase their BP and BG; Surgeries would be inundated by anxious Patients! I think that because you are testing, albeit at your expense, should encourage them to help; at least try and take your meters on 7 Dec. The NICE Guidance is to my mind deeply suspect.

55 years ago I would drive my vintage car without a fuel gauge, but dip the tank before setting out; when my first old banger car had a broken gauge I knew I could run out of fuel and I managed that risk with a spare can in the boot. Today the law requires that my car is safe and that everything works, including the fuel gauge (hence strict MOT criteria) and we drive knowing what our fuel status is; we rarely look at the gauge because we know there will be a warning light etc. It's a shame that this logic of some precautionary action isn't applied to people with elevated BG. We are required to have a clean and defrosted or demisted windscreen for road safety; why is BG testing not treated as a safety issue? Reducing the subsequent medical damage from prolonged elevated BG would be a major saving to the NHS; diabetes costs the NHS hugely. Amputations, hospialisations and subsequent care are a big part of that overall diabetes cost - never mind the subsequent burden on Social Services.

I saw this first hand: my late brother had both legs amputated because of his D. Ignoring the cost to him of being confined permanently to a wheelchair, the cost of housing him (couldn't work, no income, lost their home and all posessions), modifying that bungalow with external ramps and handrails back and front, modifying the interior with every door widened, kitchen rebuilt for wheelchair height use, bathroom renewed as a wet room, many electric sockets repositioned higher, permanent social service benefits and allowances, taxis for numerous hospital appointments. The unseen costs were just massive. My rant over!! Apologies.
 
Pharmacy is a great idea.
 
What I did once was, when I happened to need a blood test for summat else, got the GP surgery to add a straightforward BG test to the test form - NB NOT a HbA1c test and when she'd taken the blood needed for both tests before applying the cotton wool and pressing hard on it to get that vein to stop bleeding apply a drop straight out of the same 'hole' in that vein onto a strip inserted in both my meters both at the ready to test. Then waited until I got all the test results. My previous meter was several whole units lower than my new meter which happened to be an Accu-Chek Expert meter. It was smack on exactly the same result as the Lab test. And also years ago when interested parties could easily get access to such info (so that was me) in tests done by Roche ie the Accu Chek meters, were always found to be consistently more accurate than many other, newer, makes by whoever carried out the testing ie independent bodies in different parts of the world, in order for them to be licensed for use in that country. (People like the MHRA in the UK, the FDA in the US and other different bodies in eg France, Germany, Sweden etc etc.) I still use an Accu Chek meter and rely on ONLY the reading from that to base my insulin doses on cos it's hit and miss whether Libre scans are anywhere near the same as fingerprick ones.
 
What I did once was, when I happened to need a blood test for summat else, got the GP surgery to add a straightforward BG test to the test form - NB NOT a HbA1c test and when she'd taken the blood needed for both tests before applying the cotton wool and pressing hard on it to get that vein to stop bleeding apply a drop straight out of the same 'hole' in that vein onto a strip inserted in both my meters both at the ready to test. Then waited until I got all the test results. My previous meter was several whole units lower than my new meter which happened to be an Accu-Chek Expert meter. It was smack on exactly the same result as the Lab test. And also years ago when interested parties could easily get access to such info (so that was me) in tests done by Roche ie the Accu Chek meters, were always found to be consistently more accurate than many other, newer, makes by whoever carried out the testing ie independent bodies in different parts of the world, in order for them to be licensed for use in that country. (People like the MHRA in the UK, the FDA in the US and other different bodies in eg France, Germany, Sweden etc etc.) I still use an Accu Chek meter and rely on ONLY the reading from that to base my insulin doses on cos it's hit and miss whether Libre scans are anywhere near the same as fingerprick ones.
@trophywench I have been using my Kinetik monitor for the past few days because I didn’t have any in-date strips for the Accu-Chek. From tomorrow I’ll start using this monitor instead as I now have strips.

@Leadinglights my appointment on 7th is a 10 min phone consultation and I’m sure to be asking for a face2face appointment as soon as they can. I will then take monitors and readings with me to try and get them to start either T3c investigations or possibly look at giving me insulin, as they’ve agreed in principal. Although that said they’d rather postpone that decision until my next HBA1C test at the end of January.
 
So it’s 01:20 in the morning, about 30 minutes ago I took my pre-evening meal reading. This has concerned me as according to the monitor I used I was having a hypo. I’ll be honest and say I didn’t think to test it on my other monitor. I was too hungry having not eaten all day. Anyway the reading was 1.2 and if it was correct then I feel absolutely fine. I’ll be doing another test about 03:00 to check what’s going on.
 
Was that with the Accuchek or the Kinetic? Hopefully the Accuchek thus confirming that is the "wrongun".

I guess you didn't wash your finger and retest.

My former DSN told me in 2020 that a reading I had @1.something could simply not be right - I'd be in a coma.

Confirms to me why you need more data and you are able to reject the "outlier" readings.

Not to worry, whenever I have a bad day or just do something silly (often enough) I park that hour / day and move on; can't travel back in time so accept and don't let it hassle you.
 
Was that with the Accuchek or the Kinetic? Hopefully the Accuchek thus confirming that is the "wrongun".

I guess you didn't wash your finger and retest.

My former DSN told me in 2020 that a reading I had @1.something could simply not be right - I'd be in a coma.

Confirms to me why you need more data and you are able to reject the "outlier" readings.

Not to worry, whenever I have a bad day or just do something silly (often enough) I park that hour / day and move on; can't travel back in time so accept and don't let it hassle you.
To be honest I wasn’t overly worried about the reading for a couple of reasons, firstly I was cold and quite literally just walked through the door, and secondly I wanted something to eat and get into bed. Also, I failed to set an alarm to take the reading 2 hours after eating, but my reading this morning pre-breakfast was 14.4
 
Morning all, some may say I’m overthinking this but it’s more for my clarity of mind and perhaps I should ask the question on the “Diet” part of the forum but it does relate to my readings.
I took my wake reading at 09:00 which was 13.4 and I have just taken the 2 hourly reading which was 13.9, which of course is too high. I have been using the same monitor (Kinetik) for all my readings this week and plan to change tomorrow morning. My breakfast this morning was a sausage a piece of bacon, both air fried on ciabatta rather than porridge. It’s still too soon to work out what’s going on and I will carry on with the readings until my appointment with a GP on Thursday and the DN on the 12th. My question is “Am I doing anything wrong?”
 
Morning all, some may say I’m overthinking this but it’s more for my clarity of mind and perhaps I should ask the question on the “Diet” part of the forum but it does relate to my readings.
I took my wake reading at 09:00 which was 13.4 and I have just taken the 2 hourly reading which was 13.9, which of course is too high. I have been using the same monitor (Kinetik) for all my readings this week and plan to change tomorrow morning. My breakfast this morning was a sausage a piece of bacon, both air fried on ciabatta rather than porridge. It’s still too soon to work out what’s going on and I will carry on with the readings until my appointment with a GP on Thursday and the DN on the 12th. My question is “Am I doing anything wrong?”
If the 13.4 was just before you ate then your 2 hour post meal reading is the same so well within the accuracy of the monitor so looks as if you coped with breakfast fine. If say your before meal reading had been less than 11 then the meal was probably a bit too high in carbs. Sausages are usually pretty good if the high meat content rather than cheap ones which can have a lot of cereal as filler.
 
Morning all, some may say I’m overthinking this but it’s more for my clarity of mind and perhaps I should ask the question on the “Diet” part of the forum but it does relate to my readings.
I took my wake reading at 09:00 which was 13.4 and I have just taken the 2 hourly reading which was 13.9, which of course is too high.
Just clarify are you saying that your wake reading of 13.4 at 0900 was in effect also your immediately before eating reading? If so then your body has coped well with your breakfast (little difference between 13.4 and 13.9). It will be interesting to see where your BG is at just before your next meal.
I have been using the same monitor (Kinetik) for all my readings this week and plan to change tomorrow morning. My breakfast this morning was a sausage a piece of bacon, both air fried on ciabatta rather than porridge. It’s still too soon to work out what’s going on and I will carry on with the readings until my appointment with a GP on Thursday and the DN on the 12th. My question is “Am I doing anything wrong?”
I am conflicted for you about whether you are doing anything wrong.

Firstly you are clearly keen to get to grips with your D and that is terrific. As far as I'm concerned your questions and threads are fine - you want to understand and so did I after my first 12 months of chaotic management; I am a bit more relaxed about it now after nearly 4 yrs but I'm still curious when my day wasn't right.

My indecision here, for you, is because you are correct that readings in the 13s are simply too high and its good that you've tried a breakfast that is potentially lower carb. If this meal change leads to a general lowering of your BG over the next 3+ days then that would be terrific. If it doesn't I think you have an excellent "business" case to get your GP to start you on insulin as soon as possible.

But the other side of this quandary is that you might end up with a GP decision to say before referring you on to a Consultant, lets see (1) where your dietary changes [and the possible routine changes if your manager is helpful] and (2) the introduction of insulin takes you before that referral. That would mean at the very least more delay in getting an answer to are you actually T3c or not.

One could say if you ultimately get your D better managed in the next fortnight then it doesn't matter which type you are. Meanwhile your long term health is somewhat less jeopardised

But as a T2 you are highly unlikely to be eligible for CGM from the NHS, even if your GP starts you on insulin tomorrow. I think, as a non-medically qualified person, that you - with a history of pancreatic damage - should be entitled to CGM. As a T3c CGM from the NHS becomes more likely, particularly if a Consultant guides your GP to write the script! You already have a GP who doesn't see any benefit in you having a test meter and that, to my non-medical mind, is a GP who still isn't seeing the blatant advantage in technology (test strips or CGM) to a patient with your medical history and just wants to prolong your difficulties. Sorry if that is a harsh perception by me from this internet distance.

So I think if I were in your position I'd resist making any more changes, let the accumulating data guide you and your Surgery to a perspective where you and they can see the fuller picture, then analyse and make a better informed decision.

Meanwhile are you able to start compiling a table of results? It doesn't matter whether it's on a sheet of A4 or digital. A sheet of A4 can so easily have a photo taken to allow that to be shared.
 

Just clarify are you saying that your wake reading of 13.4 at 0900 was in effect also your immediately before eating reading? If so then your body has coped well with your breakfast (little difference between 13.4 and 13.9). It will be interesting to see where your BG is at just before your next meal.
Yes, my partner was cooking it when I woke this morning, so had the meal about 10mins later.
 
Just clarify are you saying that your wake reading of 13.4 at 0900 was in effect also your immediately before eating reading? If so then your body has coped well with your breakfast (little difference between 13.4 and 13.9). It will be interesting to see where your BG is at just before your next meal.

I am conflicted for you about whether you are doing anything wrong.

Firstly you are clearly keen to get to grips with your D and that is terrific. As far as I'm concerned your questions and threads are fine - you want to understand and so did I after my first 12 months of chaotic management; I am a bit more relaxed about it now after nearly 4 yrs but I'm still curious when my day wasn't right.

My indecision here, for you, is because you are correct that readings in the 13s are simply too high and its good that you've tried a breakfast that is potentially lower carb. If this meal change leads to a general lowering of your BG over the next 3+ days then that would be terrific. If it doesn't I think you have an excellent "business" case to get your GP to start you on insulin as soon as possible.

But the other side of this quandary is that you might end up with a GP decision to say before referring you on to a Consultant, lets see (1) where your dietary changes [and the possible routine changes if your manager is helpful] and (2) the introduction of insulin takes you before that referral. That would mean at the very least more delay in getting an answer to are you actually T3c or not.

One could say if you ultimately get your D better managed in the next fortnight then it doesn't matter which type you are. Meanwhile your long term health is somewhat less jeopardised

But as a T2 you are highly unlikely to be eligible for CGM from the NHS, even if your GP starts you on insulin tomorrow. I think, as a non-medically qualified person, that you - with a history of pancreatic damage - should be entitled to CGM. As a T3c CGM from the NHS becomes more likely, particularly if a Consultant guides your GP to write the script! You already have a GP who doesn't see any benefit in you having a test meter and that, to my non-medical mind, is a GP who still isn't seeing the blatant advantage in technology (test strips or CGM) to a patient with your medical history and just wants to prolong your difficulties. Sorry if that is a harsh perception by me from this internet distance.

So I think if I were in your position I'd resist making any more changes, let the accumulating data guide you and your Surgery to a perspective where you and they can see the fuller picture, then analyse and make a better informed decision.

Meanwhile are you able to start compiling a table of results? It doesn't matter whether it's on a sheet of A4 or digital. A sheet of A4 can so easily have a photo taken to allow that to be shared.
I apologise for including your full answer in my reply, still getting to grips with the forum.

1. Both my DN and GP are aware of T3c. The DN doesn’t have anything to do with T3c as they’re treated as T1 as you and others have said previously. From what I remember of the DN saying after speaking to the GP, Insulin is an option but would like to wait for next HBA1c results which won’t be until late Jan or early Feb. They are both aware of my previous medical history, hence my telephone consultation this Thursday.

2. DN suggested more exercise but I currently have little or no motivation to increase what I’m doing now. I walk between 3000 and 5000 steps a day. I’ve given thought to joining a gym, the motivation being I’m paying to attend, but that’s as far as it’s got.

3. Work are aware of my situation and have commented on mood swings etc. It apparently has been that bad that some staff have contacted the head office and I’m now being “investigated”.

4. Diet. This a big one for me, unfortunately I’ve never been a fan of leafy veg or anything salad related. I’m not a lover of fish. Maybe I’m a true caveman. To say I don’t eat veg isn’t entirely correct as I do eat peas, carrots, various beans, sweetcorn and of course spuds and I’ll eat pasta.

5. I have kept all the results from my blood tests on my phone and can put them onto a spreadsheet, however adding what I’ve eaten with portion size might be a bit more difficult.
 
I apologise for including your full answer in my reply, still getting to grips with the forum.
No problem as far as I'm concerned. To do this, ie reply with text inserted as here I press reply, then go to the place where I want to comment and press enter. That opens a writing apace which allows me to comment in a pertinent place.
1. Both my DN and GP are aware of T3c.
My perception is they may be aware but do not understand!

The DN doesn’t have anything to do with T3c as they’re treated as T1 as you and others have said previously.
The DN, who may have the medical lead for diabetic patients in a GP's Surgery can be forgiven completely for that. He/she will meet a huge no of T2s most on oral meds and will be constrained by the NICE Guidance (including no testing and follow the NHS Healthy Diet recommendations - which is in itself a dreadful diet for anyone who needs to reduce all carbs).
From what I remember of the DN saying after speaking to the GP, Insulin is an option but would like to wait for next HBA1c results which won’t be until late Jan or early Feb. They are both aware of my previous medical history, hence my telephone consultation this Thursday.
The GP is not trained in helping T1s how to manage their D and has also got NICE Guidance to refer all T1s to Hospital Specialists. So they just need to be alert to when a patient is outside their experience and training.

In my (non-medical) opinion you could well be just that - outside your GP's experience. Every day the GP delays that referral is another day of you not being helped. The GP needs to face up to the obvious fact that your circumstances are at the very least unusual and do the right thing - raise an Urgent referral request

Meanwhile, if by the 7th your BG remains above 10, proved from your data compilation, your GP should (again in my non-medical opinion) be prescribing insulin - straightaway.

This does not need to be a permanent arrangement, but your GP owes it to you (the patient), particularly now you are so openly intent on getting your D under better management, to at least get your BG down. Current oral meds aren't doing that. More might be doable with your diet (I'll come back to that) and the GP's choice of insulin type might need altering either from a Consultants opinion or just as part of the trial and learning.

You might sub-conciously be hoping insulin can be avoided and sub-conciously not want to start on a regime of injecting. That would be normal and I certainly didn't want that either. But I can assure you that my injecting keeps me alive and as I learn the more subtle aspects the process gets easier with time. It looks more scary than it actually is.
2. DN suggested more exercise but I currently have little or no motivation to increase what I’m doing now. I walk between 3000 and 5000 steps a day. I’ve given thought to joining a gym, the motivation being I’m paying to attend, but that’s as far as it’s got.
Exercise is seen as the classic treatment response for T2 and exercise is good for anyone, regardless of being diabetic. But sometimes exercise is not enough; if you should possibly need insulin exercise alone will never be enough. 3-5k steps is a huge amount more than many people achieve.
3. Work are aware of my situation and have commented on mood swings etc. It apparently has been that bad that some staff have contacted the head office and I’m now being “investigated”.
This is an inportant point to make to your GP (and Consultant once you get there). You need help now, not next year. You want to get your mood swings under control and if they are D related (which is very possible) action is needed now
4. Diet. This a big one for me, unfortunately I’ve never been a fan of leafy veg or anything salad related. I’m not a lover of fish. Maybe I’m a true caveman. To say I don’t eat veg isn’t entirely correct as I do eat peas, carrots, various beans, sweetcorn and of course spuds and I’ll eat pasta.
I think Diet is a big one. You are expecting a lot from your pancreas by your irregular eating arrangements. Work wise I can see that a business might be helped by having a key member of staff available constantly through a long shift and I understand that some shifts have to be until midnight (or late). But all employees are entitled to some down time for proper meal breaks and just to get that short period of respite in a hectic environment. So whatever headway you can make with getting better breaks should be to both your metabolic benefit as well as your employers.

A lower carb diet includes more meat, not just fish. Ideally that meat should not be ultra-processed foodstuffs. But from baby steps of more meat (including sausages and burgers) can come better meat choices!

Veg and some fruits are all lower carb options. Use of a range of herbs and seasonings can make repetition of lots of peas, carrots, various beans and sweetcorn more tolerable as a long term solution. Hose herbs and seasonings might make other veg tolerable to add variety and economy. I can't help much with this, I'm an omnivore and I need less than 10 fingers to count foods I simply don't enjoy. But there is a wealth of knowledge within this forum that you could tap into.

The essential thing is to find a long term diet that is sustainable; short term fixes might work in the short term but you need a diet that will remain enjoyable fairly permanently; including options for eating out.
5. I have kept all the results from my blood tests on my phone and can put them onto a spreadsheet, however adding what I’ve eaten with portion size might be a bit more difficult.
Spreadsheet = great. Perhaps a modest remarks box (column) that just records what the food was and a column that records how big (by weight or by cupful or even by plate size and fullness) plus one more column that includes your best guess at the carb content. We can help you with how to guestimate carbs if that sounds daunting - many of us do this several times a day!

It's more of a table, than a mathematical spreadsheet, that will help you see your results in relation to your dietary actions and demonstrate to your GP that you have evidence for needing wider help; also to share with the forum when you want help and advice from members. The table could be the winning action in this struggle.
 
I think that the main things I take into this conversation on Thursday is 3 fold, the first being a referral to a specialist who can look into the damage that I may have to my pancreas, and secondly a course of insulin until such time as proved un-necessary. Finally, the third thing being help with the mood swings. Neither my boss or his assistant have noticed what has been complained about. As you say I do want to get whichever form of D I have under control and hopefully I’m stepping in the right direction.
 
I think that the main things I take into this conversation on Thursday is 3 fold, the first being a referral to a specialist who can look into the damage that I may have to my pancreas, and secondly a course of insulin until such time as proved un-necessary. Finally, the third thing being help with the mood swings. Neither my boss or his assistant have noticed what has been complained about. As you say I do want to get whichever form of D I have under control and hopefully I’m stepping in the right direction.
Gradually a way forward is emerging, which is fine.
 
Hopefully this isn’t overthinking on my part, but from your own experiences of Insulin how does it start off after the decision to prescribe? I’m not overly concerned if this happens, but would like to be prepared.
 
There are different types of insulin.

Basal/Long acting insulin which is designed to deal with the glucose your liver releases throughout the day and night. Your liver is like a back up battery for when there is no food digesting like when fasting to keep your vital organs supplied with fuel (glucose).

Bolus/Fast acting insulin which is injected usually before each meal and is used to deal with the glucose released from the food you eat. Usually they will start you on fixed doses, but gradually you learn to carb count and adjust your doses to match what you eat.

Mixed Insulin This is a bit old fashioned now but it is still used. It is a mix of the above fast and slow insulins at a set ratio and is usually injected twice a day before breakfast and evening meal. If you follow a very routine lifestyle with set mealtimes this can work quite well for some people, but I would suggest that with your lifestyle of varied shifts you need a more flexible insulin regime so having separate basal and bolus insulin would probably be best. This is referred to as MDI or Multiple Daily Injections.

Sometimes they just start you off on basal/long acting insulin first and then add in the meal time insulin later, I assume to make it less complicated but those of us who started on both straight away, managed fine and I think this is the best approach.

The insulin comes in pens and you just screw on a new needle (which is tiny, 4-6mm long and not much wider than a human hair) and then you dial up the dose and find a place to inject it, usually the tummy, thighs, buttocks or outer upper arms. Basically somewhere where there is a decent covering of fat and few blood vessels. You are injecting into the fat. Mostly it is painless. Sometimes you hit a tiny capillary and it causes a spot of blood and a bruise. Sometimes you hit a sensitive spot and it is really quite painful in which case you find a less sensitive spot and sometimes the insulin stings a bit. The pens are a doddle to use. You then dispose of the needle in a Sharpsafe box.
 
Hopefully this isn’t overthinking on my part, but from your own experiences of Insulin how does it start off after the decision to prescribe? I’m not overly concerned if this happens, but would like to be prepared.
Well I was in Hospital, had surgery and left the op theatre for ICU, for 2 days I think. I woke up to find myself connected to a multitude of tubes (15 altogether - some draining various cavities some providing sustaining fluids), including an insulin drip that was regulated through a machine. Several days later most of the tubes had been reduced in quantity and the insulin drip was discontinued to allow me to be started on Multiple Daily Insulin (MDI) - which is a combination of a long acting background (or basal) insulin and a quicker acting (bolus) insulin that covered any food eaten and whenever corrections to my BG were needed. Injections were done by the nurses and I had to politely insist that I took over my injecting responsibility.

But in your case a GP who might be starting a T2 on insulin after oral meds have proved insufficient has a spectrum of insulins that could be prescribed. There will be a NICE Guidance Note (try a Google search) that gives a GP parameters for insulin selection and the options can include basal (background) insulin once daily, to a mixed basal/bolus insulin once or more daily. If your question here in this thread doesn't trigger others to offer their experiences then try asking in a new thread, as a "T2 when oral meds needed insulin".

It's a complicated matter, since people like me who start insulin after major surgery are one way in; several forum members have arrived at an exceptionally high BG and experienced something called Diabetic Ketoacidosis (DKA), ended up in hospital, possibly unconscious, then started on insulin and woken to a drip; others following your route - progressive inadequacy of oral meds and had insulin prescribed that they collected from a pharmacy possibly several days later.

That last group seem to have very mixed experiences of subsequent explanation and training: some excellent, some seem totally inadequate. When/if you reach that point you are already in a great position since you aren't at "death's door" so you have some leeway to take stock AND you now know there is masses of help on this forum both from threads like this PLUS the Learning zone. So no need to be anxious about moving from oral meds to insulin.

Momentarily I can't recall a frequent corresponding member who has gone your possible route but I'm tagging @rebrascora who probably has a much better memory of how different forum members got onto insulin.
 
Barbara got there before me! I'm now out for much of the rest of today.
 
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