Query re spikes and HbA1c results

[Lucylemonpip]

Hi

I was newly diagnosed last year, with an HbA1c of 50. Although I purchased a BG monitor, my Diabetes Nurse suggested that, for now, so as not to make things more complicated, I just concentrate on losing weight.

My question is this; if I do just concentrate on losing weight, but have BG spikes, because I do sometimes have naughty foods, will my next HbA1c test “possibly” be higher than 50, despite having lost weight over that 3 month period? If this answer is yes, then surely I do actually need to monitor my BG, so that I can find out which foods do not cause spikes, which in turn would make my 3 monthly test result to be (hopefully and more likely), lower?

 

[Ralph-YK]

Yes it is quite possible for the HbA1c to be higher if you loose weight. Depending on number of spikes, how high they are, how long they last, and how often they last.
It's also affected by your lows, and inbetween levels.

 

[Drummer]

These recent posts are reducing me to tears of rage and despair.
How can anyone make such a stupid suggestion to you - make things more complicated by ensuring you do not damage yourself having high blood glucose - what level of incompetence is just too great?

 

[Lucylemonpip]

Yes it is quite possible for the HbA1c to be higher if you loose weight. Depending on number of spikes, how high they are, how long they last, and how often they last.
It's also affected by your lows, and inbetween levels.

Thank you, Ralph-YK. I did think this might well be the case. It gets one ‘every which way’, doesn’t it! 🙄

 

[Lucylemonpip]

These recent posts are reducing me to tears of rage and despair.
How can anyone make such a stupid suggestion to you - make things more complicated by ensuring you do not damage yourself having high blood glucose - what level of incompetence is just too great?

Thank you Drummer - I must admit, it is worrying, especially if you are someone who doesn’t do some research on the subject, as I did and still do. Also, the group session that I had, was good, but didn’t go into specifics. There was a chap who I think was a doctor or similar, as he did ask questions about water intake affecting results and things like that, but the speaker didn’t go into it in any detail, probably because she thought the rest of us wouldn’t have a clue, which although probably correct, is a bit of a shame, especially if someone has more medical knowledge or is, like me, more curious to know the ins and outs.

 

[zoombapup]

These recent posts are reducing me to tears of rage and despair.
How can anyone make such a stupid suggestion to you - make things more complicated by ensuring you do not damage yourself having high blood glucose - what level of incompetence is just too great?

I agree, this is very frustrating. My consultant saying I had too good BG control? what? I mean how can anyone say it is too good? Now if its wrong, that's another thing, but too good? 🙂

Having said that, my diabetic nurses have been bloody great, plus there's actually reasonable if confusing information out there if you're prepared to buy a few books on the subject, so you can't entirely blame the medical profession, it's our condition after all, I think we should maybe take that part of it seriously and inform ourselves (or choose not to and accept the consequences).

Having said that, I think partly a bunch of this is just the huge industrial machine that is the food lobby having a lot of sway on what advice gets accepted and for many diabetics that advice is clearly poor. By design?

 

[trophywench]

… also the ready cash position - though how it can be cheaper to treat the complications rather than spend a bit in order to try and prevent them, I have never grasped really. OTOH what the GP prescribes comes out of their budget whereas when I need a leg amputating that comes out of the hospital trust budget.

 

[Ljc]

I do despair sometimes I really do, complicated, what’s complicated in taking control of our diabetes by adapting our diet to something our bodies tolerate much better and if able going for a nice walk etc.
Having said that , I know some people have eating disorders which it’ll make this very hard for them.

Yes losing weight if needed can help but as you know it is only part of the picture.
Some people have found that by going LCHF that they lose weight quite easily

Imo they should be giving people good advise , motivation and not prevent those of us who really want to take control of our condition the very tools we need to do so ie , a glucose meter and enough test strips .

Sorry rant over.

 

[zoombapup]

Imo they should be giving people good advise , motivation and not prevent those of us who really want to take control of our condition the very tools we need to do so ie , a glucose meter and enough test strips .

Sorry rant over.

Ranting is fine I think in this case. I agree with you completely, if people really want to get in control of this thing and have an active role, then the least we can do as a society is be supportive and provide simple and efficient tools to help them monitor their own condition. BG meter and strips are probably way over priced for lots of reasons, but they're still cheaper than all of the hospital visits and stuff that happens if this condition isn't managed properly.

Honestly one of the reasons I think people have a harder time than they need to with this, is because they're not using a meter and don't feel like they have any agency in their own circumstances. Certainly I would be far less happy if I didn't have a meter to monitor myself with. I'd feel like some kind of hostage in my own body.

 

[Ralph-YK]

… also the ready cash position - though how it can be cheaper to treat the complications rather than spend a bit in order to try and prevent them, I have never grasped really. OTOH what the GP prescribes comes out of their budget whereas when I need a leg amputating that comes out of the hospital trust budget.

Short term goal over long term goals. Also, I've heard it suggested that having different pots of money has an affect.
Prevention shows up on one set of books. Treatment of complications is on someone else's books. Can get this in business, where each department defends it's own money, even though they're in the same company.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

… also the ready cash position - though how it can be cheaper to treat the complications rather than spend a bit in order to try and prevent them, I have never grasped really. OTOH what the GP prescribes comes out of their budget whereas when I need a leg amputating that comes out of the hospital trust budget.

Short term goal over long term goals. Also, I've heard it suggested that having different pots of money has an affect.
Prevention shows up on one set of books. Treatment of complications is on someone else's books. Can get this in business, where each department defends it's own money, even though they're in the same company.

Well, it’s not like this hasn’t been looked into in clinical studies, (more than once) but unfortunately, the results of the studies have failed to match the sorts of positive results we regularly see on the forum. And since they have RCT evidence that ‘it doesn’t work’, then it is a waste of time and resources spending money on it as far as they are concerned.

So either there’s something different with the structure of the studies and the way strips are advised to be used (having read a few, this is certainly true)...

Or

There's something different with the ‘cohort’, and people who arrive here are in some way different to the rest of the T2 population (this seems unlikely). Though it may be that actually we are living in a little bubble of people who are motivated to self care and tackling their diabetes head-on, while many others would just rather take the tablets and carry on as before.

One recent big study review/update thing which I think was authored by our old friend Farmer (who I’ve never met, but does seem convinced that self monitoring doesn’t work in T2) did have to concede that there was a ‘certain population’ for whom self monitoring was very effective.

 

[Ralph-YK]

It isn't just them paying for self testing that's at issue. Self testing is discouraged and dismissed in a rather condescending way. (Even if self funded.) Medical people discount the possibility that patients might actually do something to manage their condition.
Professional gradient? Doing things is harder if going against medical people. Easier if supported.

[Edited]

 

[SueEK]

Personally I think that those of us on the site are those that want to be proactive with our diabetes and so bg monitoring plays a really effective part of that. Working as I do in a gp surgery I get quite frustrated when I ‘see’ patients that have absolutely no interest whatsoever in their diabetes and are full of woe that they are getting other medical problems related to their diabetes but are unwilling to make any changes to their life. There is another member of staff that has T2 who also does nothing and amazingly is quite proud of it.
I have noticed how many new members we have had recently that are asking for advice and support and that is a very good thing, at least the DNs are pointing newly diagnosed people towards this forum but sadly imo it is only a small percentage of those being newly diagnosed.

 

[Eddy Edson]

There's something different with the ‘cohort’, and people who arrive here are in some way different to the rest of the T2 population (this seems unlikely). Though it may be that actually we are living in a little bubble of people who are motivated to self care and tackling their diabetes head-on, while many others would just rather take the tablets and carry on as before.

I have to say, this is the impression I get from talking with a few GP relatives/friends - most of their T2D patients just want the pills; a few patients are motivated to do something more. Of course, the active membership here is indeed a very small bubble, versus the population of UK T2D's, whether or not representative.

It's also worth pointing out that the data for the UK, US and Oz (at least) consistently show well over 50% of diagnosed T2D's having generally OK HbA1c levels. There doesn't seem to be much difference between countries with relatively liberal SMBG regimes and countries where it's deprecated.

Personally, I would have felt lost without self-testing, once I got into it.

 

[grovesy]

Well I overheard a conversation in the GP surgery the other day between some elderly people, one saying just diagnosed pre diabetic, another I have Type 2, then reply was is that the not bad one , yeah the person answered. This does not help people to take seriously.

 

[Ralph-YK]

I have to say, this is the impression I get from talking with a few GP relatives/friends - most of their T2D patients just want the pills; a few patients are motivated to do something more. Of course, the active membership here is indeed a very small bubble, versus the population of UK T2D's, whether or not representative.

I think a lot of people will be demotivated by the lack of information and the discouragement and dismissive attitude of medical people.
Examples:
I was told not to come on here because it'll just confuse me.
Doctors reply, when asked about HbA1c results, "I don't know why I'm having to tell you this!"
When nurse was told I wasn't managing my diabetes dismissed it with "you're fine". Turned away and changed the subject.
The diabetes dietician I saw told me to ignore my diabetes. And didn't give me anything on diet, other than eat more veg and bacon being Bad. Apart from that, I'm supposed to do nothing with diet.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I think a lot of people will be demotivated by the lack of information and the discouragement and dismissive attitude of medical people.
Examples:
I was told not to come on here because it'll just confuse me.
Doctors reply, when asked about HbA1c results, "I don't know why I'm having to tell you this!"
When nurse was told I wasn't managing my diabetes dismissed it with "you're fine". Turned away and changed the subject.
The diabetes dietician I saw told me to ignore my diabetes. And didn't give me anything on diet, other than eat more veg and bacon being Bad. Apart from that, I'm supposed to do nothing with diet.

Good grief!! 😱😱😱

 

[DebbieC]

Well I’m fairly new at this but have since become aware of several people who have T2 who never check their BG, nor try to do much to manage except cut back on sweet stuff and take the tablets... none of them seem interested in lchf or any of the research... thank goodness I stumbled across this forum as everything I have learnt has come from links or sensible suggestions on here...my son was told to just take tablets and avoid grapes!!!! It is as @Drummer has said so frustrating as lots of newly diagnosed will carry on, so I for one, am so glad to be part of this group of like minded people who can share ideas and recipes etc, I certainly feel less hopeless and alone as I did sitting with my son in the surgery !