Podcast - ultra processed food

[Lisa66]

Anyone else listening to this podcast series?

A Thorough Examination with Drs Chris and Xand

Thank you to everyone who subscribed to Series 1 of the podcast. We were thrilled by all the fantastic feedback and the impact it had. We’re very excited to now reveal we have a new home over on BBC Sounds where you can find a new, follow up episode to 'Addicted to Food' and from where you’ll be...

pod.link

Whilst we all know ultra processed food isn’t good, I’m finding the podcast and all the extra detail and information with regard to the effect it has very interesting. Other issues around UPF covered here too with regard to genes, emotions and cravings. A slightly different issue covered each week...only around 30 mins and an easy listen.

Episode 5 of 6 out today, so guess I’ll put my ear pod things in and get out in garden. Fingers crossed that link works.

 

[DaveB]

I must admit I find this recent use of the term UPF a bit 'trendy'. How can anyone define it? Most foods are processed in some way even just cooking them. I think what the term is meant to cover is carby foods and those with added E numbers or similar and lacking in fibre. I prefer the use of the term carbohydrates which actually defines the food group and whether they are fibre rich or not. 'Highly refined carbs' would be a more useful term?

 

[Inka]

I don’t think it’s just carbs @DaveB There are various groups of processed foods, and carbs are often in the minimally processed group. There are plenty of good carbs that haven’t been processed much.

Protein can also be too processed eg the difference between a chicken portion and chicken nuggets.

 

[rebrascora]

I agree that lumping all these additives in with highly refined carbs is confusing and over simplifying the problem. Suggesting that if you don't have a product in your kitchen cupboards then it is UPF is too generalized. Most people don't have psyllium husk but it can be a useful additive to any number of low carb recipes and being almost completely soluble fibre, it seems highly beneficial to me (my gut certainly thinks so) whereas most people have white flour and sugar in their cupboards which are both highly processed and not beneficial.
I think it is important to look at labels and make an educated decision on whether a food is too highly processed or contains too many additives and these podcasts have certainly prompted me to look again at one or two things on my grocery list even though I feel like I eat pretty "clean" (whatever that means) these days. My 75% chocolate may have to go the journey and the brand of pork scratchings I am currently favouring are now off the list.
Almost all food is processed to some extent or other but you need to try to look for the lowest processed foods with the smallest list of ingredients.
I am also coming to the view that artificial sweeteners may need to come off my menu altogether and be replaced by a very small amount of brown sugar or honey as a healthier alternative as and when I really need it but increasing my sweetness sensitivity has helped a lot in respect or how much less I now need.
I agree that meat products and meat alternatives particularly, need to be carefully assessed. A lot of the vegetarian stuff is kidding people that it is a healthier choice, when it may not be and it does worry me that many vegetarians rely on such foods to for many of their meals.

@Inka Just to let you know that I now have a regular supply of that raw kimchi and sauerkraut you put me on to, so thanks for that. The kimchi is a little saltier than I expected but I am slowly acquiring a taste for it. I definitely like the sauerkraut better. Surprisingly neither of them last more than 5 days and so far I have only had a few forkfuls here and there on their own rather than eating it with other foods. I alternate kimchi one week and sauerkraut the next.

 

[Inka]

Ah, that’s great about the kimchi and sauerkraut @rebrascora 🙂 I was wondering how you were getting on with them - glad you like them. I’m not one to imagine things and am quite a cynic, but I genuinely do think they’ve helped me feeling better in myself. My tummy is better but not just that, I swear I feel better emotionally too. Like you, I alternate the two. The sauerkraut is very nice with sausages and things with that kind of savoury/salty/herby taste. As you say, no need to worry about using them in 14 days. I’d eat more if I could afford to. I tend to ration them a bit to make them last around 9 days.

My current chocolate favourite is Tony’s Chocolonely. I know you like dark chocolate but the milk chocolate one is really cocoa-y and absolutely lush. It’s not cheap but I’d rather have less of something good quality and fair trade (the company aims to stop exploitation and reduce poverty in the chocolate market). It’s also more satisfying. I’m a chocoholic but this chocolate is one I can actually make last.

To me, that’s a lot of the problem - too much cheap, over-processed, addictive foods, and too little wholesome foods. We all need to eat some processed foods but if we can just stop for a few seconds longer and think what we’re choosing that will help. I know that’s an indulgence many people in the world don’t have, but I do think that choosing wisely can help over-consumption in developed countries and improve conditions too hopefully.

 

[helli]

I must admit I find this recent use of the term UPF a bit 'trendy'. How can anyone define it? Most foods are processed in some way even just cooking them. I think what the term is meant to cover is carby foods and those with added E numbers or similar and lacking in fibre. I prefer the use of the term carbohydrates which actually defines the food group and whether they are fibre rich or not. 'Highly refined carbs' would be a more useful term?

Most food may processed but less is Ultra processed.

My understanding of ultra processed goes way beyond carbs. I think @Inka's example of chicken nuggets is a good one. ThIs article lists these as UPF

• Industrialised bread (11 per cent)
• Pre-packaged meals (7.7 per cent)
• Breakfast cereals (4.4 per cent)
• Sausages and other reconstituted meat products (3.8 per cent)

That is certainly not all carbs.

And the difference between processed and ultra processed is exemplified by "Plain yoghurt is minimally processed, but add sweeteners, preservatives, stabilisers or colourings and it becomes ultra-processed." Yoghurt is not a high carb food.

Likewise, carbs are not all UPF. Again, referring to the article for an example, "Bread made from wheat flour, water, salt and yeast is processed, but add emulsifiers or colourings and it becomes ultra-processed."

Carbs may be difficult for those who are intolerant to them such as people with type 2 diabetes. But they are not evil and most people (including people with Type 1 diabetes who know how to dose insulin for them) are fine with carbs as long as that is not all they eat.

Please remember that people with diabetes are more likely to experience mental health issues. Forcing the message of evil carbs upon them can lead to eating disorders (yes, I do know some Type 1 diabetics who have experience this).

 

[Lisa66]

Wow this seems to have taken a turn down an unintended route

Ok so to be clear, this was not meant as an anti ultra processed food post...completely neutral there. There was no mention of carbs! Certainly no evil carbs message! No carb bashing involved in the podcast.

Obviously most foods in the supermarkets go through some sort of processing and there is a place for it....it would be very difficult to to avoid unless we produce everything we consume in our own gardens.

This podcast is rather more interested in things like emulsifiers and the like. How they effect whether we feel full or hungry for example. Ingredients that take the place of nutrients. How smell and texture can trick our minds. If we can’t smell something we might not like the taste...if you give someone day old crisps but the person wears head phones the crisps wont taste stale.

Early episodes look at the differences between the two drs, identical twins, is diet affected by emotions, our environment etc

So I guess with regard to my opening question, is anyone else listening to the series...the answer appears to be no.

I just thought it was interesting.

 

[helli]

@Lisa66 Sorry to have derailed the message. My comments were in no way aimed at you or at the podcast.
I started listening but seem to get bogged down in a lot of ads so didn't get beyond the first episode which is a shame because it certainly seemed interesting.
Thank you for sharing.

 

[Inka]

I watched the TV programme and read the associated articles @Lisa66 but haven’t listened to the podcast - largely because I start podcasts and then either forget them or get sidetracked by things! It does sound interesting though 🙂 I hadn’t realised there was a podcast until I saw your post.

 

[Lisa66]

@Lisa66 Sorry to have derailed the message. My comments were in no way aimed at you or at the podcast.
I started listening but seem to get bogged down in a lot of ads so didn't get beyond the first episode which is a shame because it certainly seemed interesting.
Thank you for sharing.

I know what you mean...I skip the ads...fortunately there aren’t many.

 

[Lisa66]

I only started listening to podcasts during the lockdown... I like the fact I can do something else at the same time...I know what you mean @Inka ,life can sometimes be very distracting

 

[Leadinglights]

New Scientist had an interesting article entitled Junk Food in the 12th June 2021 issue. Some surprising definitions of processed foods.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Ultra processed food seems to be the latest whipping boy.
I seriously doubt a loaf of cheap white basic Tesco bread would inspire anyone to eat more than if they were comparing it to a freshly made crusty loaf made with flour water and yeast.
And a decent artisan sausage, made from 100% ground pork, or a basic sausage full of processed fillers?
Emulsifiers? That's become a catch all. A basic egg yolk is an emulsifier, I have no issue with that.

 

[Robin]

Emulsifiers? That's become a catch all. A basic egg yolk is an emulsifier, I have no issue with that.

I think it’s a question of why, not what. If a product contains emulsifier, you have to ask, 'why are they having to emulsify?' Fresh Mayonnaise, good quality oil, vinegar, bound with fresh egg, no problem. Some artificially concocted dessert using emulsifier to bind cheap fat and water together, with a load of sugar and artificial flavouring to make it palatable, then no thank you.

 

[nonethewiser]

New Scientist had an interesting article entitled Junk Food in the 12th June 2021 issue. Some surprising definitions of processed foods.

Or maybe not surprising given we analyse food more that average person. that is living with diabetes.

Lets face it we all eat processed food, ultra or otherwise. All my 3 meals today had processed food, oats greek yog at brekkie, lunch cheese n ham sandwich & mayo, side salad & shop bought coleslaw on side, tonight mince & tatties with frozen peas corn on cob carrots. Even mugs of tea was processed as tea isn't picked that way & milk goes thru pasteurisation, even seasoning with food is processed, example ground black pepper & salt, so anyone who says they don't consume processed foods is only fooling themselves.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

I think it’s a question of why, not what. If a product contains emulsifier, you have to ask, 'why are they having to emulsify?' Fresh Mayonnaise, good quality oil, vinegar, bound with fresh egg, no problem. Some artificially concocted dessert using emulsifier to bind cheap fat and water together, with a load of sugar and artificial flavouring to make it palatable, then no thank you.

Ah, but if you need to pick a part of my response...........

 

[helli]

Or maybe not surprising given we analyse food more that average person. that is living with diabetes.

Lets face it we all eat processed food, ultra or otherwise. All my 3 meals today had processed food, oats greek yog at brekkie, lunch cheese n ham sandwich & mayo, side salad & shop bought coleslaw on side, tonight mince & tatties with frozen peas corn on cob carrots. Even mugs of tea was processed as tea isn't picked that way & milk goes thru pasteurisation, even seasoning with food is processed, example ground black pepper & salt, so anyone who says they don't consume processed foods is only fooling themselves.

That's why the podcast, article and this thread are all about ULTRA processed food not just processed.

 

[trophywench]

Coming to this a bit late - on holiday last week looking to see how many grams of carb were in each Lotus biscuit I was about to enjoy with a cup of coffee (5 point summat apiece) for fairly obvious reasons - I got sidetracked by the claim on the packet that they contain 100% natural ingredients. For starters, we asked ourselves. since when has any FLOUR been 100% natural for heaven's sake? The wheat was only natural whilst still growing, ripening in the sun and wafting about in the passing breeze - once it's harvested, then threshed/winnowed and the kernels of the seeds ground, even by hand grinding, to produce flour - it is PROCESSED. Similar whether it's nuts, beans or chick peas you turn into flour. Where do you daw the line?

 

[Gwynn]

I think my issue is not with processed food but ULTRA processed food and lots of additives.

Since being diagnosed as a diabetic and deeply inspecting the food I buy, prepare, cook and eat, I have really started to appreciate food that is less processed and has less additives. The flavour, texture, sheer pleasure is wonderful.

And I agree with the comparison of general white bread vs a home made loaf with real yeast. Its more than a pleasure its a privillage to prepare and eat. Even the smell of the cooking is wonderful.

But I understand the modern, time squeezed, over stressed, often money stretched, rushed, busy lives leaves very little room for many to check, buy, prepare, eat, savour. Ahhh, savour. Every aspect of modern life seems to have diminished our ability to savour it, until something happens that opens our eyes. For me it was becoming ill and the diagnosis.

A bit extreme but it is true. I wasn't savouring anything. I was existing as best I could as things seemed to get worse and worse. Thankfully re-educating myself and facing up to some home truths, reprioritising what is more important in my life and my families life, and completely changing my whole lifestyle for the better, has improved everything.

I watched a programme about ultra processed food and it was pretty scary stuff.

 

[nonethewiser]

That's why the podcast, article and this thread are all about ULTRA processed food not just processed.

No get that heli, point is processed ultra processed food is difficult to avoid, example sausage hams soft drinks, even veggie alternatives can be classed as ultra processed.