PIP Decined

[MarkGeordie]

Some points to bear in mind…

1. It’s not a medical assessment, it’s an assessment of how you perform the tasks outlined in the descriptors, that’s why it’s not a requirement a doctor performs the assessment.

2. Repeatedly, reliably and safely come into this too, if you can’t do a task repeatedly, safely or reliably you should explain how.

3. Medical evidence can be very limited use because a medical practitioner does not spend all day with you, they don’t witness you cooking, taking medication, bathing, going to the toilet, eating, managing your money, observe you in social situations, etc so they can’t comment.

4. If you do tasks for someone though, a statement would be beneficial here to explain what you do, why, how you do it, the steps taken, etc.

5. Your own real world examples will help massively, you should include these for every descriptor that is applicable, two for each, make them recent, explain exactly what happened the last time you attempted the task, go into detail. Real world examples with explanation are far better than just saying “I can’t do this and can’t do that”. You need to be saying why you can’t do it, what happened when you attempted, what were the consequences, etc.

I claim PIP. All I sent with the form was my prescription lists, a copy of my CVI and a 2 page assessment by a charity. That’s it. The rest were real world examples. I was awarded first time.

I’ve helped many claim PIP too and the majority have been successful first time.

An MR will very likely result in no change to the points or the award.

If you go for a tribunal, remember a over the telephone or in person one has a better success rate compared to a paper based one.

 

[offspin]

Hi , reading comments on PIPs it does appear to be a lottery on the success of a claim.

It could well be the assessors are paid bonus to decline claims !!

 

[MarkGeordie]

Hi , reading comments on PIPs it does appear to be a lottery on the success of a claim.

It could well be the assessors are paid bonus to decline claims !!

For a starters an assessor does not make any decision, they write a report and make recommendations that is sent back to the DWP.

A DWP decision maker than makes the decision using the claimants returned form, evidence and the assessors report.

So they can’t achieve a bonus as they have no say in the decision making process.

 

[offspin]

For a starters an assessor does not make any decision, they write a report and make recommendations that is sent back to the DWP.

A DWP decision maker than makes the decision using the claimants returned form, evidence and the assessors report.

So they can’t achieve a bonus as they have no say in the decision making process.

Hi , if you say so but you clearly have greater knowledge than I do.

 

[MarkGeordie]

Hi , if you say so but you clearly have greater knowledge than I do.

I wouldn’t say that, but everything I said can be found on the gov website and the PIP assessment guide.

 

[offspin]

Hi , I have looked at the Government Web Pages as you suggested.

What I would say the word "might" appears fairly often in PIP section but I have no experience in PIP claims.

 

[MarkGeordie]

Hi , I have looked at the Government Web Pages as you suggested.

What I would say the word "might" appears fairly often in PIP section but I have no experience in PIP claims.

What do you mean by the “might”?

 

[offspin]

Hi ,

You will receive £500

You might receive £500

There is clearly a difference

 

[MarkGeordie]

Hi ,

You will receive £500

You might receive £500

There is clearly a difference

But what’s that referring to? Links?

 

[offspin]

Hi MarkGeordie ,

I passed a comment regarding PIPs and I feel our exchanges are not what this forum for.

Hope you agree

 

[MarkGeordie]

Hi MarkGeordie ,

I passed a comment regarding PIPs and I feel our exchanges are not what this forum for.

Hope you agree

Just trying to establish where your getting the figure of £500 from.

It’s a discussion forum, that’s what we are having.

No one ever says you will be entitled to anything, you have to go through processes.

 

[Pumper_Sue]

For a starters an assessor does not make any decision, they write a report and make recommendations that is sent back to the DWP.

A DWP decision maker than makes the decision using the claimants returned form, evidence and the assessors report.

So they can’t achieve a bonus as they have no say in the decision making process.

I think you will find the decision makers take as gospel what the assessors say.

 

[MarkGeordie]

I think you will find the decision makers take as gospel what the assessors say.

The point I was making though is, the HCP does not make any decision, the decision maker does.

I wouldn’t say in every case they take what the HCP says as gospel, although mostly they do go with the recommendations, It has been known though for the decision maker to go against what theHCP has recommended, I have come across individuals who had their reports, and the decision maker hasn’t given them an award at all when one was recommended and vice versa, so it isn’t always followed.

 

[Pablo]

The point I was making though is, the HCP does not make any decision, the decision maker does.

Hi @MarkGeordie

We're talking about a lot of HCPs and a lot of decision-makers, and like everyone in other areas of life, some will do their jobs well and some will not. From that point of view, I suspect that @offspin's opinion that PIP claims are a lottery may hold some water. When a close friend with a complex case, who had been on DB for over a decade, attended a face-to-face HCP assessment (accompanied by me) following a PIP claim, the claim was denied. We requested the HCP assessment report and found that the HCP had lied about many of the answers given in the Q&A, or had twisted words to produce a contradictory emphasis – the report was sly and deceptive. And my impression was that the degree of deception was so high that the assessor had in fact done their job extremely well, from their employer's point of view, since it was obvious that their role in this case was to deny the claim. Or else this claim provided typical opportunities for claim denial. An example of this is the HCP declaring at several instances in different parts of the assessment that no pain medication is used for an aspect of my friend's condition that affects the ability to carry out daily activities. This was in fact because none of the pain-relief drugs that had been tried over the best part of a year (three different therapeutic combinations) had worked, and the consultant had no more options left, other than a sedative to aid sleep. All of this info had been given in written and verbal form to the HCP during the assessment, but none of it was included in the assessor's report. Instead, the HCP used the lack of pain medication as evidence that the pain did not exist – because it wasn't being treated. That logic is straight out of Heller's Catch 22. Oddly, the only points that were awarded by the HCP were for something that was not even in the original PIP claim. We wrote our own report (it was 50 pages long) on the assessor's report, using quotes from my friend's own HCPs and GP, to refute every single aspect of the assessor's report, and the claim was accepted in full. But how many PIP claimants whose claim was rejected would have the ability to effectively refute the assessor's report? An unknown proportion, that's for sure.

Whatever the GOV website says is irrelevant to the facts of policy implementation (you have to look at what takes place, not what the GOV website says should take place – look at Home Office standards, for example), and it seems extremely unlikely that HCP contractors would not be given claim denial targets to hit. Perhaps they have assessors whose targets are different, and my friend got one who is a claim denier, who might be targeted at particular claims. However it works, that particular HCP was disgraceful in their professional conduct, and this is clearly built into the system in some way.

Cheers

Pablocity