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I too have done a lot of extensive research and diabetes was on the initial list and then taken off...


I have seen people say this before, and I think there was some confusion (for a number of reasons, not least because they kept changing the terminology). Diabetes was, and is listed as ‘at risk’, and/or ‘increased risk’ or ‘high risk’ but *crucually* not ‘clinically extremely vulnerable’ (aka Self Isolating which then became Shielding).

The matter was hugely complicated by the initial press briefing where with my own ears I heard Boris Johnson repeatedly say anyone with conditions ‘like diabetes or asthma’ should self-isolate. Except, when I went to .gov to check the actual advice that wasn‘t what it said at all. And only a much smaller list eg Cystic fibrosis, immunospressants, kidney failure, chemotherapy... were advised to.

There was also some confusion about who should and shouldn’t self isolate following coverage in Pulse, but as far as I am aware at no point did the .gov website advice say that people with ‘just’ diabetes were recommended to self-isolate / shield.

We had a LOT of threads on this after that early press conference, and in those early months, and you certainly aren’t the first I’ve heard to say that diabetes was ‘dropped’, but between the initial press conference (after which I panicked) and 7am the next day the .gov advice has remained consistent from what I can tell.
 
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A postcode lottery as usual then.
My local Newspaper was saying online there were no hubs in my City, yet my ex-collogues were posting on Facebook last night saying they had been given the vaccine, which was the local hospital. My surgery have still no heard yet when they will join the scheme but have a link to the local CCG vaccination site.
 
The only reason people with diabetes have a bad outcome is if they are badly controlled or have complications.

If this is the case then shielding letters would have been issued at the 1st lockdown. Which in turn moves you up the list for vaccination.
The only people not on the priority list are shop workers, which imho is not right as they are sitting ducks.
I am in agreement with you about shop workers being prioritised. My husband has just been sent home to isolate being in contact with someone at work who has covid :( Its true they are sitting ducks seeing 100s of people a day and social distancing is impossible in smaller stores with narrow aisles.
I am also hoping what you have said about keeping levels under control reduces risk of complications is correct as i have obviously been in close contact and sleeping beside him for last few days before we found out.
 
I too have done a lot of extensive research and diabetes was on the initial list and then taken off...


That article is a person paraphrasing a podcast which featured someone who was not involved in any of the medical decisions, but quotes them as saying there was no evidence to support putting diabetes on the list of vulnerable conditions, let alone extremely vulnerable ones.

The extract I posted was from a letter sent from Dr. Nikita Kanani, Medical Director for Primary Care, and from Ed Waller, Director Primary Care Strategy and N.H.S.Contracts to all primary care clinicians in England. I have also found a copy of this online so you can read it in full, should you wish.


So I am sorry, but I do not see how, what seems in essence, a random blog post from April counters a letter sent by N.H.S. directors in March. But I apologize if Mike Watts is connected with the N.H.S. or Public Health England and so is speaking with knowledge of their internal decisions.

And as everydayupsanddowns says, diabetes has always been on the "at increased risk" list which was released on March 16th, later to be called "clinically vulnerable," and has never been removed from it. I do not think any condition has.

That original list of conditions that put people at risk applied to everyone who is offered a free flu vaccine, and the guidance was for those people to be extra vigilant at following measures like social distancing.

That diabetes is still included on the list is precisely why diabetics are included in phase one of the vaccination programme, which gives priority to those at risk, rather than having to wait until the second phase which will address those who are under 50 and without medical conditions which make them vulnerable.

Shielding was only introduced alongside the lockdown, and only affected a limited number of those already identified at increased risk. Initially referred to as conditions which put people "at highest risk" it was later renamed as "clinically extremely vulnerable." I believe this list of conditions was first published on March 21st.

It has never included diabetes as a listed condition, people who only have diabetes have never been asked to shield by virtue of it, although a clinician can put someone on the shielding list based on clinical judgement in individual cases, which could be related to diabetes. There was no highest risk list before the introduction of shielding.

The article you linked to not only makes no claim about diabetes being aded to or removed from that list, it does not make any reference at all to higher risk, being extremely vulnerable, or shielding. It only makes an erroneous reference to the "at increased risk" list, likely due to the confusion explained by everydayupsanddowns.

No one can say the government communications has not been poor. The media has not been much better in its reporting. So I can completely understand why people could get confused.

During a press briefing before Christmas a member of the public asked for advice because their clinically extremely vulnerable partner was being required to attend work. The Prime Minister responded that he hoped that was not happening. However since shielding was paused in August, that was his government's policy. People in the group were expected to attend work, where it is Covid-secure, just like anyone else. There was no allowance for working from home, even where possible.

And In his statement last night he said he will be asking people who are clinically extremely vulnerable to shield once again. However, most of the country already was as shielding was part of the tier 4 restrictions. Being in one of the first areas to be put in this tier I have been shielding since December 20th, having received an unambiguous text message from the government.

Clinically Extremely Vulnerable people should shield in areas of England in Tier 4. Guidance can be found at: https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus. A letter will also be sent to CEV patients.

Today various reporters have made issue of the "big revelation" by Professor Chris Whitty that even after vaccination some measures may still be needed next winter. However this is something Professor Jonathan Van-Tam has said repeatedly at briefings when giving updates on the status of the vaccines. Either they do not listen or have very short memories.

Similarly the reporting around the "government" extending the period between first and second doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, followed by the claims by the New York Times that the government would mix-and-match doses of different vaccines. This all coming a week after the joint J.V.C.I.-M.H.R.A briefing to approve the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine in which they announced the change to dosing schedules, and the reason for it. They also made clear that you cannot mix-and-match vaccines. The report from the J.V.C.I. only allows for this in limited circumstances; where it cannot be confirmed which vaccine a person took for their first dose or where they do not have the same vaccine to administer a second dose and the person would not return for the correct one.

It is also important to note that The Health Protection (Vaccination) Regulations 2009 puts a legal requirement on the Secretary of State to implement the recommendations of the J.V.C.I. unless they are impractical to do so. So the government cannot ignore the guidance nor change it.

Whilst there is a valid scientific debate on the merits of the strategy of the J.V.C.I., public confidence in the system has been massively undermined by the reporting which has cast it as a political decision rather than one made by scientists. Sadly this also includes many opposition M.P.s using it for political point scoring.

But even of the specialist journalists who asked questions at the original briefing, only Sky News' correspondent questioned it, particularly that decisions were made on the basis of confidential information from the manufacturers when such things should be put in the public and open to scrutiny.

But as I said, I have done a lot of research and followed all of this closely. Which is frustratingly a curse as much as a blessing. It means on the medical issues I only trust official sources and not journalists or politicians, nor paraphrased podcasts. But it also means I can feel very confident about what I know.

And I know that diabetes alone has never put people "at highest risk" making them "clinically extremely vulnerable."
 
I've seen so many petitions about changing when people should be vaccinated, teachers and train drivers to be given priority are just 2 of them. I work in a supermarket, I'm diabetic, I'm technically obese (hate that term, but it's what I am). But I'm willing to wait my turn. I dont think these petitions will make much difference (just my opinion). I'd love to have the vaccination sooner, but dont think its gonna happen.
 
I logged on to the East Lancashire Trust hospitals yesterday to book a Covid jab. Time slots kept appearing and disappearing, just like shopping at Tesco.

Anyway, all I was asked was my name, date of birth, address and NHS number.

So Mrs B and myself are getting our jabs tomorrow.

That’s called getting off your arse and doing something rather than passively waiting to be prioritised.
 
I logged on to the East Lancashire Trust hospitals yesterday to book a Covid jab. Time slots kept appearing and disappearing, just like shopping at Tesco.

Anyway, all I was asked was my name, date of birth, address and NHS number.

So Mrs B and myself are getting our jabs tomorrow.

That’s called getting off your arse and doing something rather than passively waiting to be prioritised.
Didn’t think you were allowed to do that, thought you had to wait to be called? Although when you give them your nhs number does that tell them if you are in one of the priority groups? There must be something in place to stop someone like me (under 50 with no underlying conditions) just being completely selfish and booking a jab now.
 
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Didn’t think you were allowed to do that, thought you had to wait to be called? Although when you give them your nhs number does that tell them if you are in one of the priority groups? There must be something in place to stop someone like me (under 50 with no underlying conditions) just being completely selfish and booking a test now.
I think this another of the postcode lottery, my surgery have a message on their website not ring, and a link to CCG vaccine information site.The local Hospital here has just opened as a hub, but 10 miles away have still not got any more local facilities, even at the Community Hospital.
 
I logged on to the East Lancashire Trust hospitals yesterday to book a Covid jab. Time slots kept appearing and disappearing, just like shopping at Tesco.

Anyway, all I was asked was my name, date of birth, address and NHS number.

So Mrs B and myself are getting our jabs tomorrow.

That’s called getting off your arse and doing something rather than passively waiting to be prioritised.
That’s not possible in our area, though. There have been warnings issued from the hospital that if you book an appointment without having received a prior invitation, you will be turned away.
The town just up the road was one of the pilot areas (cue pictures of Pru Leith receiving her jab just before Christmas, then later saying that she thought the young ought to be the priority for getting jabbed!) but our surgery is all geared up with the hall booked and a list of volunteer marshalls, but hasn’t been told when it’s getting any yet.
Edit. My husband's 99yr old uncle in Preston received his invitation, and has been done!
 
That question isn’t asked, as to whether you’ve been invited. It’s expensive setting up such a system, and slow. I think they are just immunising as many folk as possible, which is the sensible way to do it.

Yes, it probably is a postcode lottery. But then I’ve got multiple pathologies, but don’t qualify as a priority except in my own head. Mrs B qualifies, but TBH we can’t sit around expecting our GP to sift through everyone to grade them.
 
Yep, same here @Robin You need the invitation to be able to book the appointment, and if you book an appointment without one and/or aren’t in the group they’re currently doing you’re turned way when you arrive.
 
Piece on the news last night reporting from a vaccination facility where they were administering people's second dose after the recommended 3 week interval. GPs have been up in arms about the Government's switch to 12 weeks and some have said they will not do this for people who have already had their first dose, a stance supported by the BMA.
Our GP practice hub of 5 is carrying out the 2nd jab on Sunday. They rang my Mum to confirm her apt.
 
Just looked on our trust nothing, just message saying gp surgery or nhs will contact you. Not so bothered about self more for wife who has weakened immune system.
 
I had mine on the 16th Dec as I am a frontline NHS worker in a large NHS trust, along with colleagues, our trust has cancelled all second injections and we will be contacted in the future.
 
My dad has had his first dose today, my mum has not had hers yet and she is extremely vulnerable due to bad asthma which forced her to have to shield the first time round. Mum is a year younger than dad so it seems they are doing it strictly by age in their area! Hopefully she won’t have to wait long then but it would have made more sense if she’d had hers first!
 
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