Pasta and rice!

[Patricia]

Hello all

I know that type1Sue (hello!) advised me in passing about dosing for pasta and rice on another thread -- hugely helpful -- but we are consistently running into problems. We are injecting novorapid, and my son can eat like a horse...

It's the evenings which seem the worst, because we can't correct later. Last night, case in point: he started a little high (weird day, lunch out), had 400 grams of pasta. We dosed him for pasta and one correction unit after he ate. 2 hours later he felt a little wobbly. Wasn't hypo, but he felt he was going. Had a small snack therefore before bed. Woke VERY high this morning.

We figure pasta digested late, and the snack just made him feel better short term but added to the overall bgl.

We encounter similar things with rice.

What shall we do? How do you dose it? Split dose? Late dose?... Argh.

Many thanks for any advice.

 

[Caroline]

Sorry can't advise on insulin dosage but do you use whole grain rice and whole meal pasta? I am told they are more complex carbs and take longer to digest.

 

[diagonall]

Hiya, try a 30/70 split giving the 70% 2 hrs after the 1st injection when eating pasta or rice. As caroline suggested whole meal is better.
400gms is one heck of a lot of pasta too 😱 pasta/rice and spuds as well as bread are wicked on the blood sugars so they do need to be eaten in moderation. Can you fill your lad up on other things too.
Also why can you not correct later?
Novo has a duration of anything up to 5 hrs with a peak at 2 hrs. So there is no reason not to correct we all end up doing so when a carb counting error happens or food doesn't act as we expected regarding blood sugars.
Everything is trial and error and not an exact science.
What works for one doesn't work for another.

 

[Patricia]

This is really helpful. I think we will try splitting, because this is a bit silly.

What I meant by not being able to correct is that he's sleeping, so we miss the spike... We were thinking anyway that for the meantime pasta may need to be a lunchtime thing, so we can keep track of effects....

Yes, he can eat huge amounts. It's a problem. Well, not really. He's almost 13, always been slim and had a very high metabolism. His father is the same. I think we may need to investigate getting more meat and cheese in though...I'm doing that for his packed lunches; instead of two sandwiches I'm sending in one plus cold sausages, toms and some goats cheese, etc. It's the *money* -- everything low carb is so much more expensive! Carbs are wonderful padding for hungry kids....

We'll try splitting the does, 2 hours after eating, this weekend.

So generally, we can correct as a 'one-off' as long as we are two hours either side from a meal, is that right? This is what our DSN has advised if we absolutely need to. Is this what you do?

Cheers.

 

[diagonall]

This is really helpful. I think we will try splitting, because this is a bit silly.

What I meant by not being able to correct is that he's sleeping, so we miss the spike... We were thinking anyway that for the meantime pasta may need to be a lunchtime thing, so we can keep track of effects....

Yes, he can eat huge amounts. It's a problem. Well, not really. He's almost 13, always been slim and had a very high metabolism. His father is the same. I think we may need to investigate getting more meat and cheese in though...I'm doing that for his packed lunches; instead of two sandwiches I'm sending in one plus cold sausages, toms and some goats cheese, etc. It's the *money* -- everything low carb is so much more expensive! Carbs are wonderful padding for hungry kids....

We'll try splitting the does, 2 hours after eating, this weekend.

So generally, we can correct as a 'one-off' as long as we are two hours either side from a meal, is that right? This is what our DSN has advised if we absolutely need to. Is this what you do?

Cheers.

Patricia, "the money thing" Have you applied for DLA for your son? From what I can gather you will get middle rate care for a youngster with diabetes.
Re correcting, I never correct before the 2 hr mark always take into consideration the insulin still on board though. I think about 80% might be gone just after the 2 hr mark. Same if you have to correct an hr before a meal always remember to then adjust the meal bolus to take into account the correction given before hand.
You will get there one day at a time it will become second nature before long.

 

[Patricia]

Patricia, "the money thing" Have you applied for DLA for your son? From what I can gather you will get middle rate care for a youngster with diabetes.
Re correcting, I never correct before the 2 hr mark always take into consideration the insulin still on board though. I think about 80% might be gone just after the 2 hr mark. Same if you have to correct an hr before a meal always remember to then adjust the meal bolus to take into account the correction given before hand.
You will get there one day at a time it will become second nature before long.

Type1_Sue, thank you. We have just begun to investigate DLA for him. I am also beginning to see why the heck it's there. We have decent jobs, etc, but not being able to load up on certain (otherwise healthy) things is a bind. I hadn't really realised that, until good control started to come into view, that is.

Okay, the correction stuff helps too. I see what you mean, taking it all into account. It'll be much more manageable when we start to do that, I think. At the moment it just feels like whacking in a lot of insulin and hoping it gets where it's going for long enough, etc.

And thanks for the encouragement. We *so* want to get on top of the numbers. It's much better than even two weeks ago... but it all continues to be scary and upsetting at times. With good reason, I know. But still.

 

[bev]

Hi there!
My son diagnosed 7 weeks ago type 1. I just got a letter today saying his claim for DLA has been successful and has been awarded 'medium' rate DLA. This is ?45 per week, i am shocked its so much but it will come in very handy as our food bills have already shot up - everything low fat or sugar seems to be nearly twice the price - even sugar free medicine! How long has your son been diagnosed for? We havent been told about 'correction' doses yet as he is still in the honeymoon period so levels are a bit crazy sometimes! Bev

 

[Patricia]

Hi Bev

My son was diagnosed about 8 weeks ago -- we haven't applied for anything yet, thought you had to be 3 months in... I think we are really finding the meat and cheese as well as sugar free stuff all quite a lot extra -- no more mountains of bread and potatoes and pasta...how old is your son? Mine is nearly 13.

We think E is not yet or may never honeymoon. His levels are slowly creeping up, though clinic says they're not too bad. They haven't yet gone down, anyway!

We are carb counting, using ratios, and just beginning to correct. This is having a *huge* effect on our ability to try to get him into range, though the truth is the team here we felt was just too slow to get his numbers down. He spent weeks with them in the teens, and we knew it was wrong...A bit hairy. We finally really asked to be carb counting, etc, and the difference was immediate.

It's just a massive learning curve, isn't it?

We expect 45 per week too -- this does seem a lot. BUT the food is already becoming substantial. I had no idea. No idea about any of this, actually. I thought: you set levels, and that's it. Um, not quite...!

Nice to meet you, anyway.

 

[Freddie99]

Hi,

One reason that I can think of is were there any fats/oils in the meal? What I find is that if I eat a fatty/oily meal (mayonnaise plays havoc with me but I love it 🙂) This would raise he blood sugar as oils and fats are broken down later by the body, the body's preffered fuel is carbohyrate so it will break that down first. Fats and oils second. This is probably why your son woe up high as the oils/fats that might have been in the meal were digested at a later stage; i.e. after the novorapid had worn off.

Tom H

 

[Patricia]

Thank you Tom -- didn't think of that either! It was a tomato marscapone sauce, no other cheese etc. But may well have played a part...

And yes, I'm certain the meal missed the novorapid -- next time, we split the dose if he's willing! Avoiding possibility of hypo AND raised levels later seems a reasonable trade, but it's really up to what he can deal with....

Many thanks for everything.

 

[bev]

Hi Bev

My son was diagnosed about 8 weeks ago -- we haven't applied for anything yet, thought you had to be 3 months in... I think we are really finding the meat and cheese as well as sugar free stuff all quite a lot extra -- no more mountains of bread and potatoes and pasta...how old is your son? Mine is nearly 13.

We think E is not yet or may never honeymoon. His levels are slowly creeping up, though clinic says they're not too bad. They haven't yet gone down, anyway!

We are carb counting, using ratios, and just beginning to correct. This is having a *huge* effect on our ability to try to get him into range, though the truth is the team here we felt was just too slow to get his numbers down. He spent weeks with them in the teens, and we knew it was wrong...A bit hairy. We finally really asked to be carb counting, etc, and the difference was immediate.

It's just a massive learning curve, isn't it?

We expect 45 per week too -- this does seem a lot. BUT the food is already becoming substantial. I had no idea. No idea about any of this, actually. I thought: you set levels, and that's it. Um, not quite...!

Nice to meet you, anyway.

Hi nice to meet you too!
My son is 10. We are carb counting but it is a bit hit and miss! I think all clinics do things differently dont they? My son is only having half the dose of insulin he should really be having as his pancreas is still producing some insulin. So far he hasnt complained about doing his needles etc, just gets a bit sad if we are out and cant let him have anything 'home made' as we are not confident enough to 'guess' the carbs yet! The worst thing so far is when he goes swimming, we have been told to give him a cereal bar before, but his levels have varied from 3.2 right up to 23.2! And we dont know why!
About the DLA, i was told to claim 2 weeks after his diagnosis, but the 3 month rule is just that they wont pay any money for the 1st three months, but you can claim whenever you like!
Its so nice to swop stories with another mum! keep in touch. Bev