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Oof - Trump

CliffH said:
If that is the case then it's remarkably patronising of Vance: English is an additional language for Zelensky and yet I bet his knowledge of English (including conventions in English about how to address people) is significantly better than Vance's knowledge of Ukrainian.
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From what I know of Zelensky. He’s a sort of Ukrainian “ Seth MacFarlane.” A comedian who animated cartoons? (Political & social satire.) some of his responses to the barrage of abuse from Trump & Vance though lost a little in translation to English. I respect the guy.
 
I saw something online about leaders of countries at war often wearing military fatigues during conflict, and showing Churchill meeting in the White House very obviously not wearing a suit.
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
I saw something online about leaders of countries at war often wearing military fatigues during conflict, and showing Churchill meeting in the White House very obviously not wearing a suit.
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In any case, would the US expect the leader of (for example) an African country to wear a US-style suit? I remember being told when I was doing some work in Ukraine many years ago: "Just because these people look like you, never forget that their socio-political and cultural history is nothing like yours".

Ukraine isn't the US (or even the UK) and it's patronising for us to expect the leader of Ukraine to fit into Western ways when visiting the West.
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
I saw something online about leaders of countries at war often wearing military fatigues during conflict, and showing Churchill meeting in the White House very obviously not wearing a suit.
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I'll never forget that during the bbc live aid documentary when Geldolf wore carpet slippers to meet the Ethiopian Dictator.
 
Amity Island said:
I'll never forget that during the bbc live aid documentary when Geldolf wore carpet slippers to meet the Ethiopian Dictator.
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Hopefully the issue of 'formal dress' has reduced somewhat since the Pandemic.
 
After that masterclass in diplomacy, I messaged a friend in NY who could only write 'mortified x bns'.
It has only been 5 or 6 weeks, there are still years to go...
 
I felt that Zelensky was well and truly ambushed by both Vance and Trump. They would have seized on any excuse to belittle him and then paint him as the "bad guy" for not being grateful to the USA.
Played to Trump supporters who aren't interested in Ukraine. No doubt he thinks he can negotiate mineral rights with Putin once he has handed vast chunks of Ukraine to him.
I hope Europe will continue to support Ukraine and stand up to Russian aggression.
 
This press conference took place after they had already talked that day didn't it?

The possibility exists that they realised Zelenskyy was unlikely to sign the agreement without security assurances, and they had no intention of ensuring security.
On those grounds they may have viewed the best way to delay any agreement as ensuring the meeting did not get as far as the signing while publicly blaming Zelenskyy.
At least Zelenskyy kept his dignity while also clearly speaking of the inability of putin to keep to peace / ceasfire agreements.
 
s'nic said:
This press conference took place after they had already talked that day didn't it?

The possibility exists that they realised Zelenskyy was unlikely to sign the agreement without security assurances, and they had no intention of ensuring security.
On those grounds they may have viewed the best way to delay any agreement as ensuring the meeting did not get as far as the signing while publicly blaming Zelenskyy.
At least Zelenskyy kept his dignity while also clearly speaking of the inability of putin to keep to peace / ceasfire agreements.
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I draw the analogy of a small kid being grabbed by the arm by two larger bullies & as they hit him with his own arm, ask, “why you hitting yourself?”
 
The whole meeting is available to view, which might provide some additional context. The spat is around the 40th minute, but much led up to it.

 
helli said:
I have been intrigued by the media response.
Whether left or right leaning, the general coverage is “what was that?”

One interesting question I heard was, “how different would the media response be if that was three women instead of three men?”
I suspect it would be quite different and probably misogynistic.
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Talking of misogyny, I was at a carvery for lunch today. Carveries seem to be a bastion of male chauvinism, in that the people carving the meat are always male, with female staff only entrusted with serving.
 
Now Elon Musk has apparently said that the US should withdraw from both NATO and the UN. Trump/Vance/Musk running the US for the next 4 years? God help us.
 
If he says his sight goes fuzzy whenever he visits Barnard Castle we are doomed!
 
Satan’s little helper said:
Sorry buddy. Musk or Cummins? Actually just looked it up. (From memory.) Did Cummins in-laws or parents live up there? 5 hour drive to my in-laws. We had video calls.
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Just another case of do as I say not as I do. Seems to be a prerequisite for anyone in political circles these days, whatever side of the pond you reside.
 
Martin.A said:
Now Elon Musk has apparently said that the US should withdraw from both NATO and the UN. Trump/Vance/Musk running the US for the next 4 years? God help us.
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not without a silver lining if they did withdraw ... one less veto vote :confused:
 
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