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#On Low Carbs (Keto & similar) and liver/pancreas fat levels.

LCB

Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I have been on a Keto diet for a while, now in my second year, and have had a lot of success. However I have been hitting a plateau.

I started Keto when, as a lethargic fatalist with background intent, I was told I was being put onto Insulin injections; this being an unavoidable and irreversible tactic. I had an inspired if flawed moment of pure logic; if I am resistant to insulin and this is produced via carbohydrates/sugars, why feast on them with the huge quantities as recommended by the NHS guidelines? Not least that is based on average healthy populace whereas I am more than that, albeit in a negative way.

At that time I was on two 1000 mg prolonged release tablets and four 80 mg Gliclazide per day with repeatedly very high blood sugars. I blamed my wife for this as she would buy me chocolate through a guilt trip as she eats loads of it (but never gains an ounce!). Nonetheless it is my mouth - my choice. I obviously refused the insulin and started afresh... this was via a new surgery after I became excluded from that one, presumably for being viewed as naughty.

This new approach was very successful and the early months saw my weight fall off with blood sugars controlled down to a point where I needed just one Gliclazide (and of course the two Metformin). I should add that I did this under intense daily control. I was testing 10+ times a day, then recording and graphing the results, this with the express intention of kicking diabetes down to zero. Cured. Under this level of control, when levels were repeatedly 5 and reducing, I dropped a Gliclazide. Up the levels go then repeat for the next one. I hit a plateau at one Gliclazide. Today I had a lightbulb moment when #JITR put me onto the You Tube lectures by Professor Roy Taylor.

Prof. Taylor's presentation, whilst based as a diabetes trial results 'explanation' lecture, has explained so much for me. It showed me the reasoning behind why I hit an immovable plateau and why I have very high Triglycerides whilst having very low cholesterol. I had become resigned to the fact that I was one of those 'too far gone' types who cannot fully recover. Now however, given my triglyceride to cholesterol figures, I may yet be able to reverse things further, beyond the plateau.

The Keto Diet is based on reduced cholesterol, inferring losing sugar as the primary energy source and reverting to using fat, the natural foodstuff of the primitive carnivorous hunter gatherer... no sugar so you burn your body fat and you lose weight. In the Atkins variant, it is advocated that you can eat as much and as many fatty products as you fancy; loosely, your body doesn't turn digested fat into stored fat as this is produced by sugars, which you are no longer ingesting. You do indeed lose weight.

This will not cure my diabetes as explained by extrapolation of the details in the aforementioned lecture. I must reduce the fat retained in my liver and pancreas. This will reduce my overpopulated incidence of triglycerides back to expected levels. This alone won't cure me of course; it is merely indicative of my liver/pancreas condition. The inference of eating as much fat/protein as I wish simply creates too much kcal intake, ergo my fatty liver remains fatty, upsetting the insulin control.

I've now bought the book and have more work to do. That's not to mention the pain to go through to get my stomach used to and accepting a nearly being fed diet. It was roast pork tonight too...

I would be so grateful for comments on the above, including thoughts and opinions, and knowledge from those in the know. This is now a new arena for me, with new rules and targets. I'd like to understand them.

Thanks in advance,

Lewis
 
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if I am resistant to insulin and this is produced via carbohydrates/sugars[...]

What makes you think that insulin resistance is caused by carbs/sugar?

[...]fat, the natural foodstuff of the primitive carnivorous hunter gatherer...

Again...What makes you think the above

[...]no sugar so you burn your body fat and you lose weight.

Are you suggesting that body fat cannot be burnt, and weight lost, in the presence of sugar/carbs?
 
Does anyone know why the hashtag link didn't?
didn't what? What were you expecting a hashtag in the title to do?

Or in the body of the message, were you trying to tag @JITR? In which case, use @ not #.
 
What makes you think that insulin resistance is caused by carbs/sugar?



Again...What makes you think the above



Are you suggesting that body fat cannot be burnt, and weight lost, in the presence of sugar/carbs?
No, the body normally uses each to meet differing needs; stamina = fat, fight or flight = sugar.

My understanding has been that the body readily converts excess sugar to fat; get rid of the sugars and the primary source becomes your body fat, ergo the keto/Atkins diets success. The Atkins diet even stated - eat as much fat as you want, there's no restriction as the weight loss happens anyway. My personal experience supports that but to a limit; hence a need to understand more and in more depth. My reasoning, as mentioned above, has been flawed, however- the insulin level controls glucose release - excess glucose gets stored as fat in the liver - excess fat in the level messes up the glucose release (or more importantly the restriction of...), insulin continues to be produced and hence more glucose is released... hence insulin resistance is in effect.
 
I have been on a Keto diet for a while, now in my second year, and have had a lot of success. However I have been hitting a plateau.

I started Keto when, as a lethargic fatalist with background intent, I was told I was being put onto Insulin injections; this being an unavoidable and irreversible tactic. I had an inspired if flawed moment of pure logic; if I am resistant to insulin and this is produced via carbohydrates/sugars, why feast on them with the huge quantities as recommended by the NHS guidelines? Not least that is based on average healthy populace whereas I am more than that, albeit in a negative way.

At that time I was on two 1000 mg prolonged release tablets and four 80 mg Gliclazide per day with repeatedly very high blood sugars. I blamed my wife for this as she would buy me chocolate through a guilt trip as she eats loads of it (but never gains an ounce!). Nonetheless it is my mouth - my choice. I obviously refused the insulin and started afresh... this was via a new surgery after I became excluded from that one, presumably for being viewed as naughty.

This new approach was very successful and the early months saw my weight fall off with blood sugars controlled down to a point where I needed just one Gliclazide (and of course the two Metformin). I should add that I did this under intense daily control. I was testing 10+ times a day, then recording and graphing the results, this with the express intention of kicking diabetes down to zero. Cured. Under this level of control, when levels were repeatedly 5 and reducing, I dropped a Gliclazide. Up the levels go then repeat for the next one. I hit a plateau at one Gliclazide. Today I had a lightbulb moment when #JITR put me onto the You Tube lectures by Professor Roy Taylor.

Prof. Taylor's presentation, whilst based as a diabetes trial results 'explanation' lecture, has explained so much for me. It showed me the reasoning behind why I hit an immovable plateau and why I have very high Triglycerides whilst having very low cholesterol. I had become resigned to the fact that I was one of those 'too far gone' types who cannot fully recover. Now however, given my triglyceride to cholesterol figures, I may yet be able to reverse things further, beyond the plateau.

The Keto Diet is based on reduced cholesterol, inferring losing sugar as the primary energy source and reverting to using fat, the natural foodstuff of the primitive carnivorous hunter gatherer... no sugar so you burn your body fat and you lose weight. In the Atkins variant, it is advocated that you can eat as much and as many fatty products as you fancy; loosely, your body doesn't turn digested fat into stored fat as this is produced by sugars, which you are no longer ingesting. You do indeed lose weight.

This will not cure my diabetes as explained by extrapolation of the details in the aforementioned lecture. I must reduce the fat retained in my liver and pancreas. This will reduce my overpopulated incidence of triglycerides back to expected levels. This alone won't cure me of course; it is merely indicative of my liver/pancreas condition. The inference of eating as much fat/protein as I wish simply creates too much kcal intake, ergo my fatty liver remains fatty, upsetting the insulin control.

I've now bought the book and have more work to do. That's not to mention the pain to go through to get my stomach used to and accepting a nearly being fed diet. It was roast pork tonight too...

I would be so grateful for comments on the above, including thoughts and opinions, and knowledge from those in the know. This is now a new arena for me, with new rules and targets. I'd like to understand them.

Thanks in advance,

Lewis

Roy Taylors work is fantastic and doesn't get enough coverage. I assume you're referring to his Newcastle diet, I've been doing it and am currently on week 8 and have lost over 25lbs and it's brought my fasting levels right down. I've been posting updates in this thread if you're interested and feel free to ask any questions on it - https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/newcastle-diet-lets-go.115716/page-4
 
Chronically high blood sugar contributes to insulin resistance, but it's not correct to say 'carbs' cause it, as the majority of people can eat carbs without having a problem. But high blood sugar is known to cause a vicious cycle of increasing insulin resistance leading to increased levels of insulin being released.

It can be genetic as well, and high levels of fat in the blood can also cause.

And the body does prioritise using glucose for energy as it's easy. Using fats/amino acids is harder and requires more energy, and generally happens in the absence of dietary carbs (Like when we fast and during the night.)
 
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