Not everyone wants a 'normal' Christmas if it means a harsher lockdown to come

[Ditto]

What's the longest a pandemic / epidemic has ever lasted? I know they can come back over time like the Black Death etc., but I'm thinking Spanish Flu was the longest lasting with three waves? Even that fizzled out eventually so there's light at the end of the tunnel. Always look on the bright side of life...

 

[grovesy]

What's the longest a pandemic / epidemic has ever lasted? I know they can come back over time like the Black Death etc., but I'm thinking Spanish Flu was the longest lasting with three waves? Even that fizzled out eventually so there's light at the end of the tunnel. Always look on the bright side of life...

I saw a program on the Black Death and actually it did last as long as the Spanish Flu.

 

[pm133]

But it wouldn't be that. We know things get better in summer, so if the government had half a brain collectively they could use that to get us into a better position for next winter, especially with these faster (but less accurate) cheaper tests. We could control this much more successfully.

And now we've got multiple vaccines (which seem unexpectedly effective). So even with an inept government there's a really good chance that next year will be much safer.

Yes but I'm not interested in waiting until summer and putting my life on hold in the meantime.

 

[Sally71]

Yes but I'm not interested in waiting until summer and putting my life on hold in the meantime.

I think we’re all getting fed up with this situation, BUT the virus is still there. So you really need to be asking how much do you care about your loved ones. I haven’t seen my parents since February or my brother since last Christmas, and I desperately want to visit them this Christmas, even though it would probably have to be for one day only rather than the 3-4 we usually have, and it won’t be a normal Christmas by any stretch of the imagination. Obviously my parents get a say in the matter too, they will probably insist on social distancing, and if they would rather not take the risk then I’ll have to lump it and hope that by this time next year things will be considerably more normal and we can have a big blow-out then to make up for it. If we do decide to go, hopefully everything will be OK but there will always be the little niggly thought “what if I’m the one being an idiot, and if my parents get ill because of my actions, I’ll never forgive myself”
It's a toughie for sure!

 

[Ralph-YK]

It's been longer for me. For a full year I've been stopping at home not doing anything 'cause of health reasons.
As for Christmas, my mum is 87. It's not only my risk; her's too.

 

[pm133]

I think we’re all getting fed up with this situation, BUT the virus is still there. So you really need to be asking how much do you care about your loved ones. I haven’t seen my parents since February or my brother since last Christmas, and I desperately want to visit them this Christmas, even though it would probably have to be for one day only rather than the 3-4 we usually have, and it won’t be a normal Christmas by any stretch of the imagination. Obviously my parents get a say in the matter too, they will probably insist on social distancing, and if they would rather not take the risk then I’ll have to lump it and hope that by this time next year things will be considerably more normal and we can have a big blow-out then to make up for it. If we do decide to go, hopefully everything will be OK but there will always be the little niggly thought “what if I’m the one being an idiot, and if my parents get ill because of my actions, I’ll never forgive myself”
It's a toughie for sure!

And if it ends up being their last Christmas anyway and you hadn't visited, how would you feel then?

There isn't a guilt-free option.

This isn't about how much I care about my loved ones. It's understanding that life is risk, making appropriate judgements and being prepared to live with the consequences of your decision. Making decisions based on fear is not for me.

 

[Sally71]

If I thought they were that close to checking out for good, I’d go. But hopefully they aren’t. I'll let them make the final decision about Christmas. I hope you have a good Christmas too, with people who agree with your assessment of the risk. And probably, whatever we do, we'll all be fine.

 

[Ralph-YK]

Risk assessment and judgement is a whole discipline in its self. As is assessing evidence.
We all need to make a judgement, taking into a count our own personal & families situation, as best we can.
With my mum being in her late 80s, although she isn't ill, I have to be prepared for the possibility of her having an accident, another stroke, etc. Or just die. At any time.
There's also the chance that I could die at any time. (See threads on my heart condition.)
There will always be a though about the time could have spent with her. Compared to the risk in the current situation.

I'm still currently working on my bucket list.

 

[KARNAK]

Can I join this conversation just to get up some peoples nose,
does any one know what christmas is about?
Can anyone prove Jesus was born on christmas day the 25th of December?
Where in the Bible does it say we have to celebrate the birth of Jesus or New Year?
we have to thank Julius Caesar for that. (New Year)

Just food for thought Covid-19 is man made and its up to man to sort it out.

I also saw the program on the Black Death and it was proven that social
distancing and self isolation was a major factor in curing this disease and
rats already infested with the plague would pass their fleas onto humans
mostly the lower classes because washing and cleaning wasn`t a part of
their daily/weekly routine so the fleas thought they were in flesh/blood city.

Fumigation through a household or building proved to be very effective and
along with social distancing and self isolation proved to be the downfall of this
disease. Although the fumigation worked by killing the fleas the social distancing
and self isolation was the first break through in this Pandemic, sound familiar?

Enjoy you evening folks.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

Can anyone prove Jesus was born on christmas day the 25th of December?

Nobody thinks that, obviously. (And for Christians the main festival is apparently Easter anyway.)
Wanting a midwinter festival of some sort seems perfectly reasonable to me, and pretending that it's religious is fine.

From my perspective skipping this year's (or delaying it a little, or changing it) just seems like a reasonable and useful thing to do.

 

[pm133]

If I thought they were that close to checking out for good, I’d go. But hopefully they aren’t. I'll let them make the final decision about Christmas. I hope you have a good Christmas too, with people who agree with your assessment of the risk. And probably, whatever we do, we'll all be fine.

You don't always get warning of people dying.
I think that bit in bold is very likely and it's been the case for the entirety of the pandemic that the vast majority are not going to be affected in any way.

 

[grovesy]

Can I join this conversation just to get up some peoples nose,
does any one know what christmas is about?
Can anyone prove Jesus was born on christmas day the 25th of December?
Where in the Bible does it say we have to celebrate the birth of Jesus or New Year?
we have to thank Julius Caesar for that. (New Year)

Just food for thought Covid-19 is man made and its up to man to sort it out.

I also saw the program on the Black Death and it was proven that social
distancing and self isolation was a major factor in curing this disease and
rats already infested with the plague would pass their fleas onto humans
mostly the lower classes because washing and cleaning wasn`t a part of
their daily/weekly routine so the fleas thought they were in flesh/blood city.

Fumigation through a household or building proved to be very effective and
along with social distancing and self isolation proved to be the downfall of this
disease. Although the fumigation worked by killing the fleas the social distancing
and self isolation was the first break through in this Pandemic, sound familiar?

Enjoy you evening folks.

That sounds the same one I saw on the Black Death I found it intresting.
I am not a fan of Xmas.

 

[KARNAK]

Nobody thinks that, obviously. (And for Christians the main festival is apparently Easter anyway.)
Wanting a midwinter festival of some sort seems perfectly reasonable to me, and pretending that it's religious is fine.

From my perspective skipping this year's (or delaying it a little, or changing it) just seems like a reasonable and useful thing to do.

I`ll say the same about easter Bruce another pagan festival ,where in the New Testament
does it say celebrate Jesus death or resurrection? and where do the cute little bunny rabbits
come into it? Also according to the Ten Commandments the second Commandment is
Thou shalt not worship any Graven Image, then why do catholics and the anglican denominations
insist their "punters" insist on kissing the feet of a Graven image? don`t tell me but its Jesus
both denominations believe God, Son and the Holy Ghost are but one God does that not make
them kiss the feet of a Graven image?

Want me to go on?

 

[Bruce Stephens]

I`ll say the same about easter Bruce another pagan festival

Yes, it's another adopted pre-Christian festival (of spring, rebirth, the end of winter, etc.). But if you're going to celebrate one of them I can understand why they'd choose the Easter one as the more significant (where the sacrifice is supposed to have happened).

 

[KARNAK]

Explain sacrifice against crucifixion please Bruce?

 

[Ditto]

LOL Karnak you made me laugh out loud really.

Look don't knock it, so us Christians nicked the pagan festivals I'm just going with it, bit of light in the darkness. People are putting their lights up round here already, yay I say.

The images thing does make me pause but I'm thinking if Himself made us then he made us flawed so He'll just have to put up with it. I luvs a Mary statue, have one outside my front door at the flat, cost me 50p at the carboot back in the day. My friend in New Orleans has an Our Lady garden with statue, us Catholics luvs all that stuff. Nostradamus did say that thing tho' didn't he? Hmm.. maybe I should be worried. Mind you, he was RC too, knew which side his bread was buttered.

Did y'all watch that Plague programme in three parts eek it was the rotten louses all the time, giving the poor rats a bad rap. I like rats. Human fleas and body lice urk.

 

[mikeyB]

The church adopted pagan festivals already present. Christmas is really the midwinter festival, celebrated at the winter equinox, from when the nights start getting shorter and the days longer. So the boozy celebration we have been celebrated long before Christ, and has rightly become re-paganised, celebrating as our distant ancestors did. Midwinter was more important than midsummer, so some think that Stonehenge was built as guide to that celebration.

Easter is easier to decode. The word Easter has the same derivation as Oestrus, and similar words (oestrogen for example) referring to female sexuality and receptivity. Spring is when many animals start making babies. And that’s where we get Easter eggs. The Easter Bunny has a long history, when the fighting hares appear in the fields. Another food crop (very tasty, too) appearing in spring. This predates rabbits, of course, which were introduced as a food crop by the Romans.

The church has moulded the Spring festival into a celebration of rebirth, or resurrection. If you’ve ever wondered why Easter is variable in date, it’s because it’s the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox. That’s what Constantine declared anyway. It happens that way because he used the Jewish calendar, which is based on the moon cycles. So on the Jewish calendar it’s a fixed date, (not that they celebrate Easter) and variable in our calendar. So blame Emperor Constantine, Holy Roman Emperor, who murdered his brother on the way to the top job, so just the sort of person you want organising your religious holidays. So if the varying date annoys you, you know who to blame.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

So the boozy celebration we have been celebrated long before Christ

I’ve heard a theory that it was timed to coincide with Saturnalia - a Roman festival. Which allowed the fledgling Christian church to hide their celabrations among all the general hubbub, at a time when Christians were being routinely killed for not acknowledging the Caesar of the day as a God.

 

[Inka]

A theory based in truth, I believe @everydayupsanddowns 🙂 Lots of newer religions incorporated or co-opted earlier celebrations, both as a cover and to claim them for their new religion.

 

[mikeydt1]

SAGE don't want anyone to have a Xmas or to even enjoy themselves - in the newspapers though shall not hug, kiss, play board games or even sing!

guess we won't be allowed to vacuum in case we move the virus to the next square metre.