Newish pre-diabetic. Help me understand. How many carbs a day can you have and how/which figure/where do you get figures???

[Bluebell22]

Hi. I am so confused. Been told I'm pre diabetic. Attending NHS Healthy Course, but 4 sessions in I'm really confused big time.
How many carbs a day should my maximum intake be? And which carbs on a packet/tin etc do I count. Is it the biggest carbohydrate figure or the "of which is sugar" figure? I thought the group leader said it is the "of which is sugar figure" and said to the whole class we should aim for maximum of 30g. But someone else said they thought she said its the bigger carbohydrate figures and maximum 130g!! Really, really confused. The group leader changing so can't ask her. The new leader cancelled recent meeting and another few weeks until the next one. The stress is actually making me eat more than ever and that includes things I know shouldn't eat as much as I am. Please, please advise me about carb counting and how. I can't find anything that is easy to understand or answers my question. Thank you

 

[Leadinglights]

Welcome to the forum. No wonder you are confused.
First it is the carbohydrate number you need to look at NOT the of sugars. That is only of value if you have two things with the same carb number, you may choose the one with the lower 'as sugar'
Second the suggested amount of carbs PER DAY is no more than 130g and that would be for someone diagnosed with diabetes or fairly close to that. It could be that she suggested 30g as being for any one meal. So 3 meals plus snacks and drinks could then add up to130g for the day.
You will need to look at the carb values on packets. tins etc or look of the internet for the carbs of any particular fresh foods and then look at the portion size and you can work out the carbs for your meal. Many food will be very low or zero carbs like meat, fish, cheese, eggs, dairy, vegetables except starchy ones and salads.
High carb foods are bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, pastry, breakfast cereals, tropical fruits and well as the obvious cakes, biscuits and sugary drinks including fruit juice.
Have a look at this link as I find it explains things very well and there are some meal plans to suit various tastes. https://lowcarbfreshwell.com/

 

[Martin.A]

Being at risk of diabetes doesn't mean progression to diabetes is inevitable @Bluebell22 but it does mean making lifestyle changes around diet, being active and (if necessary) losing weight. Depending how deep into the 'at risk' range you are (HbA1c 42-47) you might only have to make a few simple adjustments along the lines that @Leadinglights has outlined. Many 'at risk' members have managed to get their HbA1c back into normal range by doing this, and some of us have done so even from an actual diagnosis of T2 diabetes.

 

[s'nic]

Welcome to the forum
Please don't stress, think of this as a marathon rather than a sprint. Just check the 'total carbs' and have smaller portions of high carb foods. The 'per 100g' info is the easy way to compare one item (or brand) to a different one.
As Martin said it may be possible to get your HbA1c back into the normal range. Things like adjusting your foods, losing weight (if overweight). and increasing exercise.
All exercise counts not just going to a gym ... seated exercises, walking, dancing, gardening ... any movement counts.

 

[Bluebell22]

Amazing. Thank you for taking time to respond to my 'dilema'. I think I've got gist of what each of you have said and really helpful. I've downloaded the Freshwater App now too. Any further advice will be welcomed and appreciated - knowledge is a wonderful thing!

Slightly different but can anyone advise about G.I values and prediabetes. Is following a low GI diet a good way to healthier eating? I'm vegetarian and like cooking but from what I understand I should try and keep processed foods to a minimum. I use Quorn mince a lot and i like plant based sausages for example - so should I stop them? Are there better alternatives I can use? Is there a natural Soya and is it low carb for example?

The last year has not been great. I had breast cancer diagnosis, surgery etc. Now told pre diabetis. I need to lose at least couple of stones in weight, lead a healthier lifestyle (I'm joining gym) and change my diet so I (hopefully) don't progress to full diabetis. I know I need to take control and be proactive but also turning to Forum for help and advice. Thanks for listening.

 

[Leadinglights]

Amazing. Thank you for taking time to respond to my 'dilema'. I think I've got gist of what each of you have said and really helpful. I've downloaded the Freshwater App now too. Any further advice will be welcomed and appreciated - knowledge is a wonderful thing!

Slightly different but can anyone advise about G.I values and prediabetes. Is following a low GI diet a good way to healthier eating? I'm vegetarian and like cooking but from what I understand I should try and keep processed foods to a minimum. I use Quorn mince a lot and i like plant based sausages for example - so should I stop them? Are there better alternatives I can use? Is there a natural Soya and is it low carb for example?

The last year has not been great. I had breast cancer diagnosis, surgery etc. Now told pre diabetis. I need to lose at least couple of stones in weight, lead a healthier lifestyle (I'm joining gym) and change my diet so I (hopefully) don't progress to full diabetis. I know I need to take control and be proactive but also turning to Forum for help and advice. Thanks for listening.

Sorry to hear of your other issues but really GI is a bit of a red herring as whether something acts as low GI depends very much on the individual because of their gut flora and also what foods are eaten with. For example something high GI can be made to be low GI by combining with protein and fats.
It is better to concentrate on the carb content and as you are only prediabetic then reducing your portion of the high carb foods should be sufficient, being vegetarian does make it a bit more tricky as many of the zero carb foods are off your menu. I think the important thing is to make sure you are having enough protein and healthy fats.
I use edamame bean or black bean pasta as it is much lower carb than normal pasta and use celeriac or butternut squash instead of potatoes and people use cauliflower rice.
Substitutions like that may be all that is needed.
It would not be the Quorn that would be the problem but possibly the other ingredients. There looks to be some good recipes on the Quorn website, sadly they don't give the carbs https://www.quorn.co.uk/recipes/healthy-meal-ideas

 

[Martin.A]

I used to buy plant-based sausages until I found out that they are UPF. People seem to be turning away from plant-based alternatives to meat for the same reason, as reported last year:-

As vegan meat companies see sales falling, does this really spell the end of plant-based sector?

Has the vegan bubble burst? We explore the state of the plant-based meat market and what that could mean for the future of veganism...

www.veganfoodandliving.com

I swapped potatoes for mashed cauliflower and mashed celeriac, and I make chips with celeriac. I swapped rice for riced cauliflower and wheat pasta for red lentil pasta. To give just one example of the carb saving, if we have a rice dish my wife has a portion of long grain rice (58g carb) while I have a portion of riced cauliflower (8g carb).

 

[Docb]

I do not want to complicate matters but it helps to get a perspective on carbs if you understand that dealing with carbs is not a precise science. Most of the numbers you see are estimates and some downright guess work.

So, the basic principle is that carbohydrate in food is digested and converted to glucose and some of this glucose turns up in the blood. Glucose is not a bad thing, it is needed to make the body work. Not enough circulating glucose or too much circulating glucose are bad things. If your system for some reason or other cannot deal well with glucose, your blood glucose levels rise above what are considered to be acceptable levels and you get a diabetes diagnosis. Most are not immediately ill but if nothing is done to control it then you may well be building up problems for the future. One control you can use is to eat less carbohydrate. Less carbohydrate, less glucose to cope with leading to lower blood glucose levels. That's the theory and as many on the forum will attest it is a good theory and actually works.

The problem is that the simple idea that if you eat so much carbohydrate it will give such and such glucose level does not work. There are just too many things going on.

For example, the term carbohydrate covers a whole range of things from simple sugars (yes, sugars are carbohydrates) to the complicated carbohydrates that form much of the substance of many of the things we eat as a matter of routine. All these different carbohydrates will react differently in different people. Some carbohydrates will produce more glucose than others and some will produce glucose faster than others.

Another issue is that you cannot actually the measure carbohydrate content of anything. As far as I could see (and I admit I am no expert in these matters) what you do is measure everything that you can and then assume that what is left is "carbohydrate". No attempt is made to determine what carbohydrate, except what comes under the heading of "sugars". Quoted carbohydrate levels are always an estimate with an error, an error which is never acknowledged on packaging and in the compilations of carbohydrate levels found on the interweb. You can work with those numbers but with a bit of caution.

Add to those points the fact that what is going on inside the body when it comes to glucose control is incredibly complicated and you get to the position that you can control blood glucose by controlling carbohydrate intake but there is no point in trying to be too clever about it. All you get is debate, discussion and lots of you-tube clickbait.

My take is to accept that controlling carbohydrate intake is a sensible approach to blood glucose control for many. If you want to go that route, my suggestion is to keep a food diary, with portion sizes, for a week or so before you make any changes. Then sit down and look up carb contents for everything (including snacks, cappuccinos, sneaky biscuits....). You don't need to try and be precise or worry because different sources give different numbers, just get the numbers down. Add them all up and divide by the number of days and you will get your daily average intake. You will probably get a number between 250 and 600 g/day. Look at what you have been eating, and see what you can change to get down below 200 g/day. Look for the big hitters - things like potatoes, pasta, bread, cakes, snack foods and workout some reductions and swaps. You are not trying to get below some target or other to meet somebodys guess at what might be good for you, you are trying to get well below what you were eating in a way that suits you. Much better chance of keeping it up. If you do your food diary and find you are already below 200 g/day already then check your sums to make sure they are right and if they are then think again.

The final question is how do you know if it is working. There are two ways into that.

First is to keep your diet changes up for a few months and get a repeat HbA1c. It needs a while for lower blood glucose levels to show up as reduced HbA1c but that is the best way of monitoring progress.

Second is to get a meter and start finger bodging to measure blood glucose levels directly. Essentially you measure blood glucose before and after meals and from the readings begin to work out what things are affecting you personally. That way you can zero in on specifics and refine your diet choices more accurately. I did that and have not eaten pastry, shop cake or had a cappuccino since.

Hope some of that helps you get a perspective on things. By all means look at what the "experts" have to say but most of them are trying to sell you something or are presenting guess work as if it is precise. You can get a long way by looking at the broad principles and applying them as simply as possible. There is no need to be too clever about it (like worrying about GI) because no matter how clever you are you will not find precision where it does not exist.

 

[Inka]

Amazing. Thank you for taking time to respond to my 'dilema'. I think I've got gist of what each of you have said and really helpful. I've downloaded the Freshwater App now too. Any further advice will be welcomed and appreciated - knowledge is a wonderful thing!

Slightly different but can anyone advise about G.I values and prediabetes. Is following a low GI diet a good way to healthier eating? I'm vegetarian and like cooking but from what I understand I should try and keep processed foods to a minimum. I use Quorn mince a lot and i like plant based sausages for example - so should I stop them? Are there better alternatives I can use? Is there a natural Soya and is it low carb for example?

The last year has not been great. I had breast cancer diagnosis, surgery etc. Now told pre diabetis. I need to lose at least couple of stones in weight, lead a healthier lifestyle (I'm joining gym) and change my diet so I (hopefully) don't progress to full diabetis. I know I need to take control and be proactive but also turning to Forum for help and advice. Thanks for listening.

I don’t like most of those processed plant foods. To me, they’re not real food, just cashing in. However, if you’re after a quick option, things like Cauldron Falafels are ok, as is tofu, which is very adaptable and a good vehicle for flavours.

Making your own veggie burgers, etc, is best. If you have a food processor, they can be made quickly and easily, particularly if you used canned beans or red lentils, which cook quickest. Not only are these not ultra-processed, they contain fibre and are generally good for your health.

 

[Martin.A]

Making your own veggie burgers, etc, is best. If you have a food processor, they can be made quickly and easily, particularly if you used canned beans or red lentils, which cook quickest. Not only are these not ultra-processed, they contain fibre and are generally good for your health.

We sometimes have homemade Carrot & Lentil burgers, or Bugs Bunny Burgers as we called them when our boys were growing up. They would have turned their noses up at them had we told them what they really were.

 

[Inka]

We sometimes have homemade Carrot & Lentil burgers, or Bugs Bunny Burgers as we called them when our boys were growing up. They would have turned their noses up at them had we told them what they really were.

Lentils make great burgers IMO. I like the fact that each type of lentil has a slightly different flavour. I make some green lentil cakes (like a cross between burgers and falafels) which have green pepper in. I make lots and they freeze really well. I also make a lentil croquette that has cheese and peanut butter in too. Lots of possibilities. The freeze-ability is the good thing because you only have to put in the work once, then have lots of future meals with no hassle, which I love.

Black beans make great Mexican-style burgers. They’re my latest burger fav. I’m afraid my names aren’t as imaginative as yours

 

[rebrascora]

@Inka Do you bind the lentils or beans etc with beaten egg or use something else

 

[Inka]

@Inka Do you bind the lentils or beans etc with beaten egg or use something else

I usually don’t use egg @rebrascora I find the burgers/cakes/croquettes usually stay together fine without it. Lots of the recipes I use are vegan so obviously don’t use egg but they don’t use egg substitute either. From memory, I think the ones with peanut butter and cheese in might have an egg in, but generally I find you can do without.

 

[s'nic]

A great post from @Docb - this totally underlines the importance of not getting too hung up on details. Info on food packages are flawed (not 100% accurate), bodily chemistry is complex, and people and their bodies are very individual.
So the only way forward is to focus on moving in the right direction, and as the old saying goes 'don't sweat the small stuff'.

 

[Bluebell22]

Bless you all for taking time and effort to respond to my post. I've read each of them carefully and taken in all your advice and knowledge which is plentiful, so thank you again. I've just got to apply and put into practice now I understand more about carb counting and how to do it. All I need now is a personal trainer/nutritionist/chef/medical expert and a good prediabetic recipe book that is easy to understand! Anyone up for the job .? I'm afraid a labour of love as I couldn't afford any of them, although I've arranged a sports centre gym induction later this week (hope they take into consideration my age and health issues and are gentle with me!). A
Any tips about what and where to buy things like low carb pasta, which lentils are best, which cheers and greek yoghurt is best would be appreciated. Also, sweet treats!! I like fruit but I like kit-kats, crisps, biscuits too and really don't have will power to say NO all the time. If there was a healthier, munch substitute then I'd be happy.

If anyone can stand more questions can you advise on... bread (my biggest downfall). Is there any bread or similar that is considered better/best? I love a sandwich or filled roll but feel unsure what to get or what is wholewheat (labels often misleading). I've been buying Lidl Low GI bread or M&S dark seeded sourdough - are they ok?

Any crisp substitutes better? Eg lentil curls?

Alcohol - is any beer, wine or spirits better? What's should I look for? I read somewhere Brut Prosecco better than wine. Is that true? If so how much is okay?

Cookery books - any suggestions welcomed. Ideally Vegetarian and comfort type my first choice. I like hot, tasty food. Indian too but feel afraid to eat them now.

Thank you all again. You are amazing people and your support much appreciated. Hope you're all ok my following up with more questions and not needeing a glass of Prosecco yourselves after reading my post/s! Take care .

 

[Leadinglights]

Low carb pasta like the edamame bean or black bean you can sometimes find in ALDI, Holland and Barret also or on line Explore is one make.
Spirits with diet mixers or wines better than beer or cider. Liqueurs are pretty bad.
The website sugarfreelondoner has lots or low carb cake and biscuit recipes.
You are almost better to look on line for recipes then you can pick ones with ingredients you like whereas a cook book may have lots which you don't like.
For indian foods then dry spice or pastes are better than ready prepared sauces but there are still some which are low carb, I find the Patak's ones pretty good.
A favourite curry is cauliflower, butternut squash and chick pea which I have with either paneer or hard boiled eggs.

 

[Inka]

You can buy bags of popcorn which are lower carbs than crisps @Bluebell22 and the Kind protein bars are around 8g carbs each, but you could also just have a handful of nuts, for example.

Here’s some information on some of the types of lentils, which gives you an idea of taste. The quickest to cook are the split red ones. I notice you can also buy some of the ‘posher’ lentils pre-cooked and vacuum-packed:

The Ultimate Guide to Lentils: Varieties, Nutrition, and Cooking Tips – Healthy Supplies

www.healthysupplies.co.uk

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/merchant-gourmet-puy-lentils-250g

.

 

[Bluebell22]

MAGIC!! Thank you so, so much for food and drinks advice (and everything else inbetween) everyone. I feel more informed by the lovelies on this Forum than the NHS Healthy Eating course I've been attending. Feel a bit more positive and knowledgeable than I have done.


I'm thinking of buying Carbs & Calories,
the pocket sized booklet. Do you think its good/helpful? I notice publishing date about 10ys ago, and no newer version. Do you think that 2014 ish still okay and nothing changed dramatically with carb counts. Thank you all for responding to my post. So appreciated.

 

[Leadinglights]

MAGIC!! Thank you so, so much for food and drinks advice (and everything else inbetween) everyone. I feel more informed by the lovelies on this Forum than the NHS Healthy Eating course I've been attending. Feel a bit more positive and knowledgeable than I have done.


I'm thinking of buying Carbs & Calories,
the pocket sized booklet. Do you think its good/helpful? I notice publishing date about 10ys ago, and no newer version. Do you think that 2014 ish still okay and nothing changed dramatically with carb counts. Thank you all for responding to my post. So appreciated.

Have a look on Amazon as there are many different versions including things like World Food, not necessarily the pocket version.
I found the book my bible and very useful, there is an app as well but I think that is a subscription rather than a one off.

 

[Docb]

Hi @Bluebell22. I'll just take one of the things you asked about and that is bread.

If you eat a lot of bread, then it will be one of the big hitters in my approach to carb reduction.

You have two ways to go... eat less of it, halving the amount you eat will halve the carbohydrate, or eat lower carbohydrate bread.

Take the second first.

There are breads made from grain and flour mixtures which have less carb than most other breads but they are very specialised and are few and far between.

The first thing to remember is that to all intents and purposes virtually all the bread you can buy has the same carb content, around 50-60 g/100g. White, brown, wholemeal, seeded, sourdough it does not matter, if it is made mostly from wheat flour it will have the same carb content despite what the marketing departments of the big bread makers tell you about how "healthy" their particular product is. I know of one bread sold by Booths that has a flour mix which is contains low carb flours and claims to be genuinely lower carb, weight for weight, than other breads. I don't know of any other although those who live outside Booths country might know of some others.

You can try and make your own low carb bread but if you go looking for recipes all you will find are things that do not use yeast and are bound with eggs which makes the product more cake than bread for me. Makes me think that making yeast risen bread from low carb flours is not a straightforward task and even though I am a reasonably competent cook and baker I have given the idea a miss. Life is too short and all that.

Take the first, cut back on the amount of bread you eat.

If you look around the supermarket you will find low carb breads but if you look closely they will be quoting carbs per slice! If you make a smaller loaf and slice it thinner then you will get fewer carbs per slice than the same bread offered in standard format. Carbs in your sandwich will be reduced but so will the size of the sandwich.

Nevertheless, this gives you the best clue to cutting carbs from bread ... use less bread. They way I go about this without feeling deprived is to develop a taste for more highly flavoured breads, use smaller size loaves, and slice it thinner. You can rummage around the "artisan " bread section in the supermarket and trying a few until you find something you like. I get there by making my own bread using seeded wholemeal flour, baking it to give a decent crust and a low cross sectional area when compared with supermarket stuff. That way the carb content of one of my slices is about 25% of that of a slab of sliced white. The compensation is that it tastes far better (it actually has some flavour) and you can up the volume of the sandwich by putting in more (low carb) filling. Same for my breakfast toast. Small highly flavoured slice with butter and the most highly flavoured marmalade you can find so you need hardly any of it. And you have guessed it, make your own marmalade when Seville oranges are in season and you will never touch shop marmalade again.

They are my thoughts on bread. Fundamentally eat less of it but make the experience more enjoyable.

Same principles apply elsewhere. Eat less of something of better quality - chocolate, pasta, potatoes whatever. You can also use psychology.... eat French fries rather than chip shop chips. For a given weight of spud, the pile of French fries you get is much bigger than that you would get from chip shop chips so you don't feel deprived. Its why burger places always use French fries........

Some ideas to start with.