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Newcastle University Diet

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Ok even more confused now;

Checked my sugar at 1:15pm this afternoon - 7.9mmol/l
Made a fruity raspberry ultra slim shake and retested 1 hour 30 mins later - so should be between the peak, and the return to normal - 9.3mmol/l...

So from that I conclude that I will continue to use the shakes for another day or 2 at least, but will test preshake, and at 30 min intervals post shake to see what it is doing exactly.
 
I wonder if these shakes are causing more harm than good? Wouldn't a healthier, more fibrous diet with a similar nutritional and caloric intake (200cals), not be more beneficial to my BG readings, and still allow me to lose weight, or rather more specifically, fat?

Essentially a diabetic living off sugar, in order to reduce sugar/prompt insulin response..?

EDIT: On further research, could it be that I simply have a high carbohydrate sensitivity? According to the internet, some people simply can't process carbs, and it is entirely possible to live off non carb based foods...

This is what's been worrying me - the vast amount of sugar I'd be taking in and how my body would cope. I've been on a low-carb moderate fat diet for about 10 weeks now and seem to take in about 900-1100 calories a day. I've lost a lot of weight (45 lbs) and still have a long way to go to reach not-fat-any-more! I keep thinking that the Newcastle diet would give my loss an extra kick but having spent a bit of time last night reading a document I printed out from the Newcastle Uni website, I'm rethinking the whole idea. (Dr Taylor's response to FAQ - I've tried to find a link to post but can't find it now) It give practical advice on how to use his findings and advises that a slower loss may be more sustainable. It has to be sustainable to be effective.

As I've already lost so much and reduced my FBG from the 20s in September to the 5s since mid-October by keeping my carb intake down, I'm very nervous of taking in that amount of sugar, even for a limited period.

Maybe the way to go is to reduce my calories to a similar level for a few weeks to see what happens. My last hbA1c, cholesterol and kidney functions were a vast improvement in around 10 weeks from diagnosis. Although I'd love to get rid of the Metformin (which my GP is talking about doing at my next review, due in May) perhaps I should try sticking with foods I know I can tolerate. I've proved I can live without carbs for a few months so I'm not sure I want to upset my current progress just because I'm impatient.

There's also a niggling worry that using the drinks will kick-start my sugar cravings again. I don't miss sugary stuff at present and would hate to wake up the cake cravings.
 
Hi Kev, I have to be honest, having read the scientific paper, been through the diet myself and watched the results of others, there is no doubt that if you can stick to it (and really stick to it!!) then you can get good results, but if it's not working for you, then perhaps you'd be best looking at a low carb diet and seeing how it goes. Look for low GI carbs when you do need them and keep quantities down. You should do some more digging around on the net, but I would also talk to your practice GP nurse and see whether you can get any useful diet adice from them, Might also give you a chance to talk about medication to keep your Glucose in check. Anyway good luck and keep us informed.
 
Hi Gareth, many thanks for the reply.

I've not abandoned the diet as of yet, but I will be looking really closely at creating a morning, afternoon, and evening 15/30 min response curve to these shakes to see exactly what is happening...

So of the people you've seen go through this, have any of them achieved non diabetic glucose levels, on a normal balanced diet? or have they had to continue their medication?

I was shocked to say the least that I was getting better BG responses to a normal meal, compared to these shakes, which caused a massive spike...

I'll continue to experiment. I've had one night off, with no adverse effects, so even if I've ruined this attempt, I'm happy to start again from the beginning. These 3 weeks have flown by.
 
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/documents/Diabetes-Reversaloftype2study.pdf

The document I originally downloaded has been updated (Oct 2013) - link above.

The recommendations on page 2 and the top of page 3 are what have convinced me I don't really need to follow the research diet. Prof Taylor recommends losing weight by a more conventional reduction in calories, which is what I'm already doing. He does say that the research diet may be useful for people who can't lose weight in a more gradual way and that it's the amount of weight lost and sustaining the loss that make the difference.

It's the loss of fat that can 'reverse' Type2, not the method of losing it. I've overhauled my life since diagnosis day and made a lot of changes for the better and my D is well controlled a present. I'm not risking upsetting that by adding so much sugar, even on a short-term basis.

Good luck with trying it though - you should lose weight faster than I'm doing but my way is fitting well with my lifestyle and time commitments. Perhaps if my weight loss grinds to a halt or I reach a normal BMI with no further improvement in BG control ...
 
Hi Folks,

Of the original particpants on the original diet I believe 9 were left in a pre-diabetic state. Aldo was drug free as have others on the web. I had my own story, ccomplicated by a job loss, a young child, cigarettes and every excuse I could think of to ram my face with food and drink red wine. I'm now stable at 13 stone, waking glucose 6.0-7.0 and taking 4 metformin a day. The diet continues to gather supporters and doubters along the way and I understand a 5 year study will shortly be under way. As was said early in the post, Prof Taylor is positive about the diet one minute and negative the next. The truth is no-one knows, the only thing so far established is that losing liver and pancreatic fat helps improve the situation and there can be no argument that for many type 2 diabetics losing weight in ANY way will improve glucose control and help people live longer and better lives.
I am very pro this diet, I believe that rapid weight loss can seriously help so long as it kick starts a change in lifestyle and for many of us that is the most difficult thing in the world...
 
28 g of carbs is quite high. If you where going to run for 3mile fine.
 
I believe that rapid weight loss can seriously help so long as it kick starts a change in lifestyle and for many of us that is the most difficult thing in the world...

I think that's the key to the whole debate. If it helps people who otherwise can't make the changes to start out on a changed life-style, that's brilliant. I managed to make the change without it, but I 'm frankly stunned that I did because I was a cake-addicted couch potato before diagnosis.

So yes, I'm an advocate of the diet, it's just that from reading the Prof's update and looking at my own situation as it is now, I don't think I need it at present.
 
Hi all,

So I spent the last 3 days doing a bit of an experiment, and making note of my readings across 3 different mornings, with 3 different breakfasts.

Before I carry on, I will say that I absolutely, 100%, agree with this diet, and I myself have seen good results thus far.

Over the 3 days I didn't exercise, or change my routine, so my fasting BG came out quite consistent over the 3 days.

The purpose of this is to look at whether having these shakes, as meal replacement, caused more, or less of a spike than comparative, 200 calorie alternatives.

On day 1, I had an Ultraslim vanilla shake from a powdered sachet, mixed into milk (as per instructions), and measured my BG every 15 minutes up to 1 hour, then every half hour (simply for conserving some of my strips - this was still enough to show the pattern) - in some instances I've done more than 1 reading every 30 mins, so it's not strictly every 30 mins, but it is a minimum of 1 reading every 30mins after 1 hour.

On day 2, I had an egg omelette, which consisted of 1 whole egg (incl yolk), and 2 egg whites (separated). I added into the omelette to bulk it out; 2 diced mushrooms, 1 diced tomato, 1 chopped red onion, 2 chopped spring onions, 12 chopped pimento green olives, a sprinkle of salt & pepper, and 4 large iceberg lettuce leaves chopped and served on the side. See below image for what it looked like:

photo.jpg


From my calculations, using weighted measurements of each of the ingredients in the omelette, and referenced against online calorie/nutritional database (I've got the exact breakdown of how I calculated it at home and will supplement with that later), of approximately 180 cals for the full meal, including a smattering of oil I cooked it with (poured it onto the frying pan, and then tissue dabbed excess away. Protein in this was about 27g, and carbohydrates worked out at about 9g I'll cross reference this against my calculations later, and if any details are incorrect I'll update this.

On day 3, I had a whey protein shake for breakfast, which was made using measured 40g of impact whey from myprotein, which has a nutritional level of (from the website)

Per 25g:
Energy: 98.3Kcal
Energy: 414.0kJ
Protein (dry basis): 20.5g
Protein (as-is): 19.6g
Fat: 1.7g
Carbohydrates: 1.5g
Calcium: 125.0mg
Cholesterol: 0.5mg

So I calculated my shakes total as being:

Cals: 170~ incl the milk, of which carbs was 2.4g, and 31g of protein. This was yesterday morning, when I was at work, so I could only take roughly half hourly readings, but theres enough there to give the trend. I'll do this again with whey on this weekend and update if it's significantly different from that shown here.

So when compared with Ultraslim, which has 202 cals, of which 28g of carbs, of which 27g of sugar, the results below as shown by the graph seem quite predictable. I've marked hours 1, and 2 on the graph with the upward lines.

responses2.png


Obviously, this is based on me, and everyone elses response will be different. For me, I conclude from this that to follow the diet, as a diabetic, I myself, can no longer justify using the shakes due to my bodies response to the level of carbs/sugar.

I think it also shows, that by using 200~ calorie equivalent meals, made using real & fresh produce (veg etc), it is possible to stick to the diet.

All I'm trying to show here is that maybe the shakes aren't the be all and end all? For me, they were useful in prompting the change, and that's great, but I think for me, if you can put in the extra planning and effort to calculate and weight your food then it is possible to stick to this diet, without forgoing flavour, feeling full, and generally enjoying the diet too... At the end of the day, this feels much more sustainable for me.

Last night, I made a low carb noodle recipe, with stir fried chicken, and this was spicy, flavoursome, and caused an equivalent spike in my BG compared to the omelette breakfast.

The whey has served to replace the grab-and-go pre-made ultraslim shakes, and it causes a significantly lower spike in my BG, not to mention allowing my levels to return to normal quicker.

I appreciate that I should repeat these to get a more scientific version of this, and I will, but I feel confident enough in my results to say I believe this will be replicated when I try again this weekend (with a different 200 cal breakfast dish). Hopefully by then my fasting levels will also be lower.

Apologies for the length, but I hope this is useful to someone.
 
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Bit of an update; have cut out carbs as much as possible over the last week or so, and today had fasting BG of 8.1. Breakfast had a whey shake made with water, and 2 hours post it was down to 7.2. Having up and down days, where sometimes fasting is 6.5ish, like the other day, and sometimes 7-8mmol.

Before lunch at 12:30, BG was 5.9. Had a salad made of mixed leaves, 5 slices of really good quality ham, chopped up, about a handful of roast chicken (precooked, tesco), a mini babybel, and 1 hour post was 7.7, and 2 hours post was 7.1. Was quite a substantial meal, and I don't feel hungry at all.

I'm training twice a week, to 3 times a week at the moment, combination of running and weights. Still drinking 3 ltrs minimum water a day, sometimes more.

Still holding fat around the middle, but have definitely noticed I'm leaner; as has everyone else!

Whilst I'm not sticking to the shakes, I'm still hitting 600 calories a day.
 
Sounding really good, and steady levels like you are getting are thought by some to be kinder to your body than ones that might show lower levels, but fluctuate more. Well done on sticking with things, and thanks for the update 🙂
 
MSP Colin Beattie launches radical bid to cure his diabetes

Thought you guys might be interested to read this:

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2014/...ie-launches-radical-bid-to-cure-his-diabetes/

I do wish they wouldn't use the word 'cure' though. There is no evidence that this works long term to keep people free of medication, especially if they lapse into their old ways. What I really don't like about it being called a 'cure' is that, just as with the 'lifestyle disease' insinuation (ignoring genetic or other factors and assuming you get Type 2 from eating too many pies, so it's your own fault), it insinuates that anyone could cure themselves if only they spent a couple of difficult months. It completely undermines the public's perception of how serious diabetes is :(
 
Gotta agree, all so far have gone to pre-diabetes, so still having some blood sugar control issues
 
So it's been a number of months since I was last on the board, thought I'd post an update.
I've stuck to the low carb diet (less than 20g of carbs a day, but plenty of fibrous veg - broccolli, cauliflower, spinach, mushrooms etc, and meat/eggs/whey/casiein protein), with no drugs.

I am still on course, but I have had some weeks/weekends where I've lapsed; in total probably about 3-4 weekends of not being so bothered about my diet, and a number of times when I've not exercised. This is over the course of the last 5 months of so.


I have noticed that having the odd weekend without abandon has allowed me to get back on my regime easier and with renewed optimism when I realise that the weekend off really wasn't worth it!

2 years ago I had a blood test done, my fasting BG was 15.1 and my long term BG reading was 17.6.

This morning I got the results and my liver and kidney function test are perfectly fine. My cholesterol was a little bit high at 5.3, with apparently recommended levels at less than 5. Two years ago this was 5.7, so at least an improvement. Triglycerides were also just over at 1.9, recommended at 1.8 or less.

My fasting BG on the morning of the test was 7.7, and my long term was 8.2, which is significantly better, but still on the high side.

I currently weigh in at just under 78kg, and bounce between 77.4 and 78.4kg, still got at least another 10ish to go I think.

Bar that, pleased that things are improving, but disappointed that I can not be prescribed testing strips because I'm not on insulin/metformin - seems me saving the NHS money on not going down the drugs route doesn't allow me to at least monitor myself. Oh well will have to go back to purchasing online from people who blatently rip the NHS off for testing strips and pocket the cash.
 
Thanks for the update Webman 🙂 Some great results, and glad to hear you have been able to stick with things. I know what you mean about the weekends off not being worth it - happens to me when I have a drink! 🙄

I'm sure you will attain your goals, you have changed your lifestyle and diet to the point where you are now set on course. It's a big shame about the test strips, they clearly don't understand their usefulness - testing is not just in case you are going low :( Money and short-termist policies.

Keep in touch, and best wishes for your future success! 🙂
 
This morning

Hi Folks,

Just thought I'd update on my latest, this mornings fasting glucose was 5.6 and I weighed in at 12 stone 9 pounds,
Any update from you Webman, or from Aldo who we haven't heard from for a long time?

Gareth
 
Hi Folks,

Just thought I'd update on my latest, this mornings fasting glucose was 5.6 and I weighed in at 12 stone 9 pounds,
Any update from you Webman, or from Aldo who we haven't heard from for a long time?

Gareth

Good to hear from you Gareth, glad to hear that things are going well still 🙂 Hope the others give us an update!
 
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