Newbie needing some help to understand newly diagnosed T2

[harbottle]

The best advice anyone gave me on this forum was to get your BMI at or around 22 and Diabetes cannot really exist. That seems to have got my numbers down to a very good level.

Rubbish.

 

[Leadinglights]

I did ask the DN about the cholesterol lowering spread and she said that should be fine. The LivLife bread is very low carb wise, so hopefully not too damaging. My BS were 7.2 after lunch. Such a minefield. I also find too many eggs tends to lead to being blocked up (polite way of putting it). Thanks all the same for your feedback 🙂

You sound to be doing fine with what you are doing so far so just be cautious of some of the more extreme way that some people have of managing their condition. By all means consider them but ultimately make your own decision as it has to be a regime you can maintain.

 

[Admiral Benbow]

Rubbish.

Why is this Rubbish? Here is what a quick perusal of Google says when you type in "odds of getting diabetes by BMI":

"In fact, obesity is believed to account for 80-85% of the risk of developing type 2 diabetes, while recent research suggests that obese people are up to 80 times more likely to develop type 2 diabetes than those with a BMI of less than 22."

Further, whether it is Dr. Fung showing as patients fast and lose weight, or the Newcastle restrictive diet, losing weight appears to reverse diabetes.

Look at what it says here on Diabetes UK about reversing Diabetes: https://www.diabetes.org.uk/diabetes-the-basics/type-2-reverse

The strongest evidence of reversal is "weight loss". How to lose weight? Low carb, intermittent fasting, and exercise.

 

[bulkbiker]

Yeah, the beat diabetes guy often just eats a rotisserie chicken for dinner and nothing else because there is nothing that says you cannot just eat meat for dinner.

Personally I prefer a nice steak.. but hey chicken's ok too.

 

[bulkbiker]

The best advice anyone gave me on this forum was to get your BMI at or around 22 and Diabetes cannot really exist.

Not quite .... this guy was diagnosed with a BMI of 23

Type 2 diabetes and the diet that cured me

After receiving a shock diagnosis of type 2 diabetes, I followed an extremely low-calorie eating plan and saw my blood sugar levels rapidly return to normal

www.theguardian.com

 

[Admiral Benbow]

Not quite .... this guy was diagnosed with a BMI of 23

Type 2 diabetes and the diet that cured me

After receiving a shock diagnosis of type 2 diabetes, I followed an extremely low-calorie eating plan and saw my blood sugar levels rapidly return to normal

www.theguardian.com

Yes, it's possible for some outliers, maybe he smoked, maybe he ate lots of sugary drinks, maybe he ate a lot of french fries, in the preceding 120 days before his blood test, but if one has cut the carbs, cut the sugar, or gone low calorie, I wonder how likely it would be for the average person to get a diabetes diagnosis based on an A1C test or FG test. I note this guy is 5.7 and weighs 67kg. That puts him at 23.2 not 22. That's getting on the higher end of normal BMI. The good thing for him was it doesn't appear he had complications and it seems he was able to reverse it, by "losing weight" which is the point I am making. Eat healthy, lose weight until the numbers are down, and do it over and over again if numbers rise.

 

[trophywench]

@Admiral Benbow - I'm utterly amazed you can be happy drinking solely water. I mean, I drink mainly water most days too, BUT boiled and flavoured with Nescafe or Yorkshire Tea and a splash or 3 of milk ! I also drink other liquids with other flavours sometimes, like wine spirits and diet mixers sometimes, but that's not compulsory by any means of course.

 

[Admiral Benbow]

@Admiral Benbow - I'm utterly amazed you can be happy drinking solely water. I mean, I drink mainly water most days too, BUT boiled and flavoured with Nescafe or Yorkshire Tea and a splash or 3 of milk ! I also drink other liquids with other flavours sometimes, like wine spirits and diet mixers sometimes, but that's not compulsory by any means of course.

I did have a hot green tea today. But yes, water is my safe baseline beverage.

 

[LadyRara]

Another question, if I may. How many times a day would you expect to carry out a BS test? At the moment, I am only testing first thing and then half an hour after my first meal. What are the best times? Thanks in advance 🙂

 

[Drummer]

Another question, if I may. How many times a day would you expect to carry out a BS test? At the moment, I am only testing first thing and then half an hour after my first meal. What are the best times? Thanks in advance 🙂

When sorting out my way of eating I tested before and 2 hours later for both meals, morning and evening. Once breakfast was fairly well sorted - it was basically things left over from the previous evening meal I stopped testing in the morning and only checked after dinner.
I found that the 2 hour test showed both my reaction to the food and the suitability of the meal and once I was seeing under 8mmol/l I stuck to the same foods and way of eating and my numbers continued to go down, presumably as my metabolism recovered.
Eating at 12 hour intervals seemed to be most convenient, but these days I eat only once a day as I am not hungry. I used to have coffee, but don't even bother with that now. I seem to be getting a bit thinner, I noticed recently, but that is no bad thing. I doubt I'll ever have a 24inch waist again, but I got to almost spherical on the low fat high carb diet plan from my GP.

 

[LadyRara]

When sorting out my way of eating I tested before and 2 hours later for both meals, morning and evening. Once breakfast was fairly well sorted - it was basically things left over from the previous evening meal I stopped testing in the morning and only checked after dinner.
I found that the 2 hour test showed both my reaction to the food and the suitability of the meal and once I was seeing under 8mmol/l I stuck to the same foods and way of eating and my numbers continued to go down, presumably as my metabolism recovered.
Eating at 12 hour intervals seemed to be most convenient, but these days I eat only once a day as I am not hungry. I used to have coffee, but don't even bother with that now. I seem to be getting a bit thinner, I noticed recently, but that is no bad thing. I doubt I'll ever have a 24inch waist again, but I got to almost spherical on the low fat high carb diet plan from my GP.

That is most helpful. I must admit, I am now drinking more water than ever and, because I can no longer have sugar in my tea it is not as appealing. I know I am only 7 days in but I have lost 3lbs and feel a little healthier already. This forum, and the contributors have been invaluable. Thank you.

 

[harbottle]

Why is this Rubbish? Here is what a quick perusal of Google says when you type in "odds of getting diabetes by BMI":

"In fact, obesity is believed to account for 80-85% of the risk of developing type 2 diabetes, while recent research suggests that obese people are up to 80 times more likely to develop type 2 diabetes than those with a BMI of less than 22."

Further, whether it is Dr. Fung showing as patients fast and lose weight, or the Newcastle restrictive diet, losing weight appears to reverse diabetes.

Look at what it says here on Diabetes UK about reversing Diabetes: https://www.diabetes.org.uk/diabetes-the-basics/type-2-reverse

The strongest evidence of reversal is "weight loss". How to lose weight? Low carb, intermittent fasting, and exercise.

You said 'diabetes can't really exist with a BMI of 22.'
That is absolute rubbish. I know somewith a BMI < 22 who has T2 diabetes.
And losing weight to get a BMI of 22 doesn't mean diabetes no longer exists.

 

[Leadinglights]

That is most helpful. I must admit, I am now drinking more water than ever and, because I can no longer have sugar in my tea it is not as appealing. I know I am only 7 days in but I have lost 3lbs and feel a little healthier already. This forum, and the contributors have been invaluable. Thank you.

It is funny how different peoples tastes are, I always had a bit of sugar in my coffee but never ever in tea, I could even taste it if it had been stirred with a spoon that had stirred a cup with sugar in. Well done on the weight loss so far.
You will find that you can reduce the testing of meals once you have established that something is fine then no need to test that meal again.
You will be excluding things that may be fine if you test before 2 hours and use the same criteria.

 

[Admiral Benbow]

You said 'diabetes can't really exist with a BMI of 22.'
That is absolute rubbish. I know somewith a BMI < 22 who has T2 diabetes.
And losing weight to get a BMI of 22 doesn't mean diabetes no longer exists.

Yes, they may have diabetes, but I bet their blood sugars are much more controlled than a person with a BMI of 35 with diabetes. Generally, not always, most thinner people don't get diabetes because they have to eat better to get to that weight. There could be a plethora of reasons why with the minority of persons with Diabetes with a lower BMI than 22 have high sugars. For example smoking, alcohol, drugs, or continuing to drink lots of orange juice, or cokes. The evidence seems to suggest however, that its much easier to deal with diabetes at a lower BMI. Like that article you linked. Buddy reversed his diabetes quickly by going Newcastle. Jason Fung says that skinny type 2's are treated the same way as obese patients. Fasting until numbers come down. It's insulin resistance which causes diabetes, and the evidence seems to suggest more complications with weight gain. I too know a guy with type 2 diabetes who is underweight, probably a BMI of like 17. But he smokes like a chimmny, and for the longest time was drinking many bottles of cane juice, cranberry juice, and pressed orange juice. His A1C was 8.8. I think he can turn the numbers around if he changes his lifestyle a bit. Diabetes also is quite arbitrary in how its diagnosed. Is someone who hits 6.5 on the A1C one year or fasting glucose 126 automatically diabetic? It seems the better test would be an HOMR-IR test to see if a person is actually insulin resistant.

 

[Catbanj]

Another question, if I may. How many times a day would you expect to carry out a BS test? At the moment, I am only testing first thing and then half an hour after my first meal. What are the best times? Thanks in advance 🙂

Morning. I'm new to this ....

I've been told that the best times to test are on waking .... gives a baseline for the day, then immediately before a meal and 2 hours after you finish eating. That shows how well your body copes with what you ate. Aim for the after reading being less than 2 higher. If it is higher, then have a rethink and reduce the carbs in the meal.

My normal test regime is waking, 2 hr after breakfast, before lunch, (can't do after lunch due to work), before tea and after tea.

When you eat there is a natural sugar spike that everyone has. If you test after 30 min you will see that. It can be useful to see how high you spike, but it's difficult to get the peak by fingerpricking alone.

 

[Admiral Benbow]

So you’re changing the argument now? Typical.
This conversation is over for me.

Why are you being so irrational? I am not arguing with you over anything. I am not disagreeing with you that there are some people with a BMI of 22 who can get Diabetes. However, as I said, it is unlikely for the majority of people. That's all I am saying. The bigger question is, why are you so upset/argumentive with me for encouraging people to get their weight down until their numbers come down?

 

[LadyRara]

Are you only testing in the morning?
What sort of meals are you having and are you testing before eating and two hours after starting eating?

Hi Harbottle,

Sorry, I think I missed this post. I am now testing as soon as I wake (9.7 today) and then 2 hours before a meal (9.0 today) and will then test again 2 hours after the meal I ate a short time ago. I think my readings are starting to come down, but don't really know what is moderately high, what would be high high and what would be super-concerning. The DN said I should be aiming for somewhere between 5 & 7.5, but I am a little off this at the moment. However, my readings since I started testing last Thursday, are as follows:

18/5 7:54am 14.1
" 13:32pm 9.8
19/5 7:31am 10.4
" 17:39pm 8.0
20/5 8:18am 11.1
21/5 8:08am 10.6
22/5 9:11am 11.1
" 15:43pm 7.2
23/5 6:45am 8.8
" 14:03pm 8.6
" 23:37pm 8.4
24/5 7:31am 9.7
" 9:20am 9.0

DN said it would be helpful to fast until lunchtime, which is easy enough as I have never been one for breakfast anyway. For lunch I am having full-fat Greek yoghurt, strawberries, raspberries & cherries. Los of water throughout the day. If I need a snack, I will have a Babybel and then generally chicken/bacon salad for dinner or a stirfy with chicken.

I THINK I am heading in the right direction 🙂

 

[Leadinglights]

I'm not sure why you are testing 2 hours before eating??
If you are testing the effect food and your meal is having then you need to test JUST before you eat and then after 2 hours otherwise it tells you not a lot about your meal.
Certainly your levels seem to be coming down looking at the trend.
If you test as you wake up and then breakfast is not for another 30mins then you would need to test again as your before breakfast test then after 2 hours, and so on for each meal.

 

[LadyRara]

I'm not sure why you are testing 2 hours before eating??
If you are testing the effect food and your meal is having then you need to test JUST before you eat and then after 2 hours otherwise it tells you not a lot about your meal.
Certainly your levels seem to be coming down looking at the trend.
If you test as you wake up and then breakfast is not for another 30mins then you would need to test again as your before breakfast test then after 2 hours, and so on for each meal.

Hi, I am sure I saw someone say on here to test 2 hours before and then 2 hours after, but what you are saying makes perfect sense, so I shall change to that. Thank you.

 

[Leadinglights]

Hi, I am sure I saw someone say on here to test 2 hours before and then 2 hours after, but what you are saying makes perfect sense, so I shall change to that. Thank you.

I don't recall seeing that, but there would be no point unless of course you felt unwell.
There is so much information here so be careful not to latch on to something which may be inappropriate for you. Don't forget there are a big range of people who are Type 2, Type 1, LADA, Type 3c who will manage their condition in a variety of ways, diet, oral meds, insulin and there may well be circumstances where they may test at different times.