New with Type 2 and have a question.

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kithra

kithra

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Hello, I’m just joined and have a question.

My doctor told me a couple of weeks ago that she thinks I probably have Type 2 diabetes, together with high cholesterol and low functioning kidneys, and got the diabetic nurse to speak to me. The nurse gave me a long list of what to eat and what not to eat, and wants me to lose weight. She is taking bloods in 2 months’ time to see how things are going. However, I am confused as she said I shouldn’t even eat tinned fruit in juice but the Diabetes UK web site list that as something you can eat. So can anybody, please, tell me if I can eat it or not. Thank you and sorry if I’ve posted this in the wrong place.
 
Welcome to the forum @kithra

Sorry to hear about your possible diabetes diagnosis. And also about the confusion you’ve had with the advice you were given.

I’m always slightly wary of lists of foods that divide them into ‘red, green, and amber’ or anything similar - because while they can be a general guide, they are not guaranteed for any individual and personal reactions to foods can vary so widely as to make lists of average responses quite misleading. Various members here will have very different glucose responses to different sources of carbs that have a ‘slow release’ reputation (eg porridge oats). They will suit some really well, and act like rocket fuel for others!

One of the biggest questions when trying to get to grips with your diabetes is often ‘what can I eat’ and while there are obvious things like cakes, biscuits, sweets and sugary drinks that you will want to cut out straight away, you might be surprised how much *all* carbohydrate affects your BG levels, including rice, pasta, potatoes, bread, pastry, grains, cereals and many fruits.

That doesn’t mean you have to avoid those things entirely… but getting the portion sizes right for your body (which may be far less than a ‘standard’ portion) is really important. Some members here will look for alternatives and swaps - grated cauliflower makes a good rice alternative. And celeriac or swede can be a good stand-in or 50:50 swap for potato.

In terms of managing diabetes, two or the most powerful strategies employed by T2 members here are weight loss through low calorie meal replacements (a short term intervention followed by a maintenance diet) sometimes called the Newcastle or Fast800 diet, or a longer term shift in the way of eating towards low carbohydrate approach, which focuses on glucose management by choosing foods the body can metabolise naturally.

Both can work really well, it’s really about finding an approach or a blend of strategies that work well for you.
 
Yeah I'd avoid tinned fruit as a t2 as well. It has a high concentration of pure natural sugars in it so not a good thing. (Have a look at the nutritional info).
Unfortunately t2's are a fickle lot and various fruits are not exactly good for us t2's the best way to check them would be a test meter (finger prick test) and see what you can deal with.
 
I recall the advice given to me about fruit when I was first diagnosed. I was told a portion of fruit was fresh or frozen, an 80gm serving and no more than 2 portions a day. I later learned that berries are the fruit with lowest carbs, and tropical fruit is best avoided. Since then I've stuck to that advice. I buy frozen strawberries and blueberries, and there are quite a few frozen berry mixtures available if you prefer. Being frozen means I can measure out my portion size. I enjoy fresh berries in season
 
It is hard to have to start to think about everything you eat not just in terms of sugar but carbohydrates as there are foods which can be low sugar but still very high in carbohydrates. My best example is the breakfast cereal Puffed Wheat which get the 'green' as it only has 0.6g sugar per 100g but a whopping 69.9g per 100g carbohydrate so definitely not a good choice.
The problem with fruit is that it is easy to underestimate the portion size and for a high carb fruit especially in juice or syrup is less than good if you are trying to reduce carbs.
The information on DUK site for not just aimed at people who are Type 2 who may have to be more cautious with the amount of carbs they have particularly if they manage their condition by diet alone so many find the carbs are too high is some of their meals and food ideas.
Two resources I found particularly helpful is the book Carbs and Cals which gives carb values for various portions of a whole range of foods (there is an app or other similar apps) and this link https://lowcarbfreshwell.com/ which has good explanation which to me made perfect sense and by following the principals rather than the meals plans as such I reduced my HbA1C from 50mmol/mol to 42mmol/mol in 3 months.
What your HbA1C is will indicate how much work you need to do.
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
Welcome to the forum @kithra

Sorry to hear about your possible diabetes diagnosis. And also about the confusion you’ve had with the advice you were given.

I’m always slightly wary of lists of foods that divide them into ‘red, green, and amber’ or anything similar - because while they can be a general guide, they are not guaranteed for any individual and personal reactions to foods can vary so widely as to make lists of average responses quite misleading. Various members here will have very different glucose responses to different sources of carbs that have a ‘slow release’ reputation (eg porridge oats). They will suit some really well, and act like rocket fuel for others!

One of the biggest questions when trying to get to grips with your diabetes is often ‘what can I eat’ and while there are obvious things like cakes, biscuits, sweets and sugary drinks that you will want to cut out straight away, you might be surprised how much *all* carbohydrate affects your BG levels, including rice, pasta, potatoes, bread, pastry, grains, cereals and many fruits.

That doesn’t mean you have to avoid those things entirely… but getting the portion sizes right for your body (which may be far less than a ‘standard’ portion) is really important. Some members here will look for alternatives and swaps - grated cauliflower makes a good rice alternative. And celeriac or swede can be a good stand-in or 50:50 swap for potato.

In terms of managing diabetes, two or the most powerful strategies employed by T2 members here are weight loss through low calorie meal replacements (a short term intervention followed by a maintenance diet) sometimes called the Newcastle or Fast800 diet, or a longer term shift in the way of eating towards low carbohydrate approach, which focuses on glucose management by choosing foods the body can metabolise naturally.

Both can work really well, it’s really about finding an approach or a blend of strategies that work well for you.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for the welcome and the great information.



Unfortunately my stomach won’t tolerate some foods, especially the good fiber skin on fruit and veg. And I simply can’t eat things like pulses, nuts, cauliflower rice, brown rice, flour or pasta, and much that is suggested in diabetic diet recipes. So I’ve included more fruit and veg in my diet, and changed to Basmati rice, and I’ve always only eaten wholemeal brown bread and Flora original. Also, I’ve given up cakes, sweets, biscuits and only eat a couple of squares of 70% dark chocolate. I’ve never liked sugary drinks and just have a 200ml cup of black coffee each morning with no milk of sugar. I also have to be careful how much potassium I have as I have also just been diagnosed with high blood pressure.



I have very much cut down my portion sizes but don’t think I’m getting enough fat, salt, or sugar or calcium daily. I use sea salt in a grinder and just give it 3 grinds on my main meal. And I seem to have lost my appetite, although later I get hungry. So sometimes I then eat 2 Hovis wheatgerm digestive biscuits, which is probably bad for me! Now and then I fry things but always use either sunflower oil or extra virgin oil. And that includes frying homemade chips I’m afraid.



I read the Fast800 diet book, and the recipe book that accompanies it, but didn’t like any of the recipes. Too much plant based food just upsets my stomach. However, when shopping I do read all the labels but get confused, for example thin ham says it has 4% salt but is that per slice or per pack? I find it hard to read all the nutritional information on food.



Making the changes that I have I find very depressing, and I have things in my freezer and cupboard that I don’t think I can eat, but I hate the waste of throwing them away. And, being housebound, I can’t just give them to a food bank or anywhere.



I’ll do some more reading around the subject and, given time, hope I can find a way to eat that suits me and the diabetes.



Once again thank you for your help and suggestions.
 
Stuvart said:
Yeah I'd avoid tinned fruit as a t2 as well. It has a high concentration of pure natural sugars in it so not a good thing. (Have a look at the nutritional info).
Unfortunately t2's are a fickle lot and various fruits are not exactly good for us t2's the best way to check them would be a test meter (finger prick test) and see what you can deal with.
Click to expand...
I've ordered a finger prick test kit but am still waing for it to arrive. I'll ask my doctor what the t2 level was so I can use that as a starting point.
 
Felinia said:
I recall the advice given to me about fruit when I was first diagnosed. I was told a portion of fruit was fresh or frozen, an 80gm serving and no more than 2 portions a day. I later learned that berries are the fruit with lowest carbs, and tropical fruit is best avoided. Since then I've stuck to that advice. I buy frozen strawberries and blueberries, and there are quite a few frozen berry mixtures available if you prefer. Being frozen means I can measure out my portion size. I enjoy fresh berries in season
Click to expand...
Yes, thank you, I read about that. I have lots of frozen fruit in my freezer, mainly strawberries and raspberries. I also have frozen mango which is higher in sugar, but my stomach won't tolerate the skin on blueberries.
 
Leadinglights said:
It is hard to have to start to think about everything you eat not just in terms of sugar but carbohydrates as there are foods which can be low sugar but still very high in carbohydrates. My best example is the breakfast cereal Puffed Wheat which get the 'green' as it only has 0.6g sugar per 100g but a whopping 69.9g per 100g carbohydrate so definitely not a good choice.
The problem with fruit is that it is easy to underestimate the portion size and for a high carb fruit especially in juice or syrup is less than good if you are trying to reduce carbs.
The information on DUK site for not just aimed at people who are Type 2 who may have to be more cautious with the amount of carbs they have particularly if they manage their condition by diet alone so many find the carbs are too high is some of their meals and food ideas.
Two resources I found particularly helpful is the book Carbs and Cals which gives carb values for various portions of a whole range of foods (there is an app or other similar apps) and this link https://lowcarbfreshwell.com/ which has good explanation which to me made perfect sense and by following the principals rather than the meals plans as such I reduced my HbA1C from 50mmol/mol to 42mmol/mol in 3 months.
What your HbA1C is will indicate how much work you need to do.
Click to expand...
Thank you, but I don’t eat cereal, or any breakfast, although I am thinking of maybe eating the low sugar version of Alpen museli. And I use skimmed milk. I’m having real trouble working out what is good and bad when it comes to the amount of sugar and carbs in foods.

I’m hoping my t2 will be controlled by just diet and not tablets, as I already have to take so much medication for other conditions. And I think some meds can also affect your reaction to diabetes.

The book and web link you mention I am going to buy and check out. As for my HbA1C that is something the nurse wants to check when I have my bloods done in a couple of months. At the moment I’m just feeling very confused and depressed by the whole thing.
 
kithra said:
Thank you, but I don’t eat cereal, or any breakfast, although I am thinking of maybe eating the low sugar version of Alpen museli. And I use skimmed milk. I’m having real trouble working out what is good and bad when it comes to the amount of sugar and carbs in foods.

I’m hoping my t2 will be controlled by just diet and not tablets, as I already have to take so much medication for other conditions. And I think some meds can also affect your reaction to diabetes.

The book and web link you mention I am going to buy and check out. As for my HbA1C that is something the nurse wants to check when I have my bloods done in a couple of months. At the moment I’m just feeling very confused and depressed by the whole thing.
Click to expand...
There is really no need to eat breakfast if you don't usually but even low sugar Alpen museli is high carb but you would likely find lower carb granola which may suit you and have a scattering with full fat Greek yoghurt and a few of your raspberries.
As you have ordered a monitor you could do some strategic testing of meals with the foods you have rather than chucking them out, as it maybe a smaller portion would be OK.
Your question about the salt 4% would mean 4g for 100g of ham, that does seem quite high, I have some ham in the fridge which is 1.9g salt per 100g. How much per slice would depend on how may slices in the pack. Cooked meats are good low carb foods.
Are you able to eat broccoli, if so you can make broccoli rice rather than cauliflower rice.
 
Leadinglights said:
There is really no need to eat breakfast if you don't usually but even low sugar Alpen museli is high carb but you would likely find lower carb granola which may suit you and have a scattering with full fat Greek yoghurt and a few of your raspberries.
As you have ordered a monitor you could do some strategic testing of meals with the foods you have rather than chucking them out, as it maybe a smaller portion would be OK.
Your question about the salt 4% would mean 4g for 100g of ham, that does seem quite high, I have some ham in the fridge which is 1.9g salt per 100g. How much per slice would depend on how may slices in the pack. Cooked meats are good low carb foods.
Are you able to eat broccoli, if so you can make broccoli rice rather than cauliflower rice.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the reply. I thought about Alpen because it was suggested in the recipe book that goes with the Fast800 book. I’ve also taken a look at the various granola products in the supermarkets but they all seem to contain honey, which is something I can’t eat at all. Also I really don’t like Greek yoghurt, so I think I’ll probably just go on not having breakfast.

When the monitor arrives I hope it comes with good instructions as I have absolutely no idea how often, and at what times I should do a test. However I am eating much smaller portions now. So, hopefully, I can use up what’s in the cupboard.

I see what you mean about ham and salt and the 100g. Can I ask where you found ham that only had 1.9g of salt per 100g? Ham is the only pre-cooked meat I used to eat as I cook just about everything from scratch and only used cooked chicken or beef afterwards.

I can eat both cauliflower and broccoli, but not too much, only the idea of ricing it just doesn’t appeal to me.

The Carbs and Cals book has just arrived via Amazon, along with the latest edition of the cards that go with it. Thank you so much for recommending it to me. And thank you for all your help.
 
kithra said:
When the monitor arrives I hope it comes with good instructions as I have absolutely no idea how often, and at what times I should do a test.
Click to expand...
The usual regime is to test immediately on waking (fasting test), just before a meal (pre-prandial) and two hours after a meal (post-prandial). The target ranges are to be between 4 and 7 fasting and pre-prandial, and less than 8.5 post-prandial with a rise of no more than 2 or 3 above your pre-prandial reading.

Random testing won't tell you anything meaningful so is best avoided.
 
Thank you. I've just asked the same question in another post I wrote about my Hb1ac, so sorry for that. I didn't mean to ask it twice - a senior moment I'm afraid! The information you've given me I will keep so that I can use it when the kit arrives.
 
The monitor should come with instructions but you can usually find YouTube videos for the particular monitor.
A good testing regime depends on what you are going to do with the information and the purpose.
Testing first thing in the morning (in bed is best) and that will enable you to keep an eye on progress day to day. week to week etc as it gives you a fasting level.
To test the effect of a meal on blood glucose then testing before you eat and after 2 hours will tell you if you have tolerated the meal if the increase is no more than 2-3mmol/l or no more than 8-8.5mmol/l. Also a good idea to test if you feel unwell.
It then gives you the option to cut out a carby food or reduce portion size.
As for the ham it actually from Iceland but I'm sure other supermarkets have similar.

People often say they do not like Greek yoghurt but that is because they have had the zero fat which is very acidic and I don't like it either but the full fat one is very different.
 
I hadn’t thought of looking on YouTube as I rarely watch videos. And I want to check so that I can keep an eye on what’s happening to my blood sugar levels. So the information you’ve given me is very helpful.

Testing in bed might be a good idea, but I don’t actually eat, or drink anything (except plain water), after about 5:00 pm, then I have my main meal around 12:00 pm the following day.

Thank you for the information about how and when to test, that’s very helpful to me.

I looked at all the ham on Tesco, where I do my shopping, and couldn’t find any that was low in salt. And I can’t go to Iceland as I’m housebound and have everything delivered.

I also didn’t know that full fat Greek yoghurt was available, so I’ll see if I can get some of that to try, and add low sugar fruit to it. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
kithra said:
Thank you. I've just asked the same question in another post I wrote about my Hb1ac, so sorry for that. I didn't mean to ask it twice - a senior moment I'm afraid! The information you've given me I will keep so that I can use it when the kit arrives.
Click to expand...
This link explains finger prick testing and includes a video to show you how to do it:-

Checking your blood sugar levels

Knowing your blood sugar levels helps you manage your diabetes and reduces your risk of having serious complications – now and in the future. What are blood sugar levels? Your blood sugar levels, also known as blood glucose levels, are a measurement that show how much glucose you have in your...
www.diabetes.org.uk www.diabetes.org.uk
 
Thanks, I'll check the video out. But, for now, I have to log off for the rest of the day and go and sort the cat out. He, too, is on a diet to prevent diabetes!
 
Welcome Kithra, with fruit fresh or tinned it is the quantity of consumption in any one sitting that may impact the blood glucose levels same for any carbs. This is my experience. For instance I would only eat half a large banana at one sitting or instead I might eat a whole apple or half an apple chopped into live natural yoghurt. I would only have about 6 grapes max at a time. Tinned fruit if I rant out of fresh I may make it last 4 /5 servings if I am adding to yogurt, breakfast cereal or a small portion of rice pudding for instance. Same with carbs reduce the amount of your normal quantity, of pasta, rice, bread or potatoes. You can of course increase the amount of veg if you want to. Eggs are good to have. include nuts in the diet.

If you are going to eat tinned fruit at all look for 'unsweetened', 'no added sugar' or in 'natural juices' and, preferably, drain the liquid off before eating.
 
Can you do eggs? Do you like avocado? If you get some low carb bread then this will expand your breakfast options. I find these are very low carb. Alternate between avocado and toast with salad cream and poached eggs on toast for breakfast mostly, with full on cooked breakfast sometimes. Fruit? For me it’s either small portion or strawberries, raspberries or Mellon, often miss lunch now as this is enough to Cary me through the day.
 
Jodee said:
Welcome Kithra, with fruit fresh or tinned it is the quantity of consumption in any one sitting that may impact the blood glucose levels same for any carbs. This is my experience. For instance I would only eat half a large banana at one sitting or instead I might eat a whole apple or half an apple chopped into live natural yoghurt. I would only have about 6 grapes max at a time. Tinned fruit if I rant out of fresh I may make it last 4 /5 servings if I am adding to yogurt, breakfast cereal or a small portion of rice pudding for instance. Same with carbs reduce the amount of your normal quantity, of pasta, rice, bread or potatoes. You can of course increase the amount of veg if you want to. Eggs are good to have. include nuts in the diet.

If you are going to eat tinned fruit at all look for 'unsweetened', 'no added sugar' or in 'natural juices' and, preferably, drain the liquid off before eating.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the welcome and the information. I find the ideas that other people use to be helpful when it comes to choosing what to eat. As for tinned fruit I’ve always used the ones in natural juice, but the nurse said that was also full of sugar. So I’ve given them up and stick to either fresh or frozen fruit.
 
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